Tentative First Cycle (Would Like An Opinion)

[J-Big]

31 years old. 5'8" 165lbs 17 % body fat
Been training on and off for 12 years. Consistently for the last 1.5.
I understand more training and nutrition would be best; however, if one were inclined to circumvent the aforementioned approach, would the following cycle and pct suffice?
Feel free to berate me, I'm here to learn and am open to criticism. Preferably constructive but beggars cant be choosers. Thank you. I apologize if my format sucks, looked good on Google Docs.


12 Week Test E Cycle


Week 1

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 2

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 3

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 4

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 5

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 6

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

HCG 250iu Once A Week

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 7

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

HCG 250iu Once A Week

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 8

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

HCG 250iu Once A Week

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 9

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

HCG 250iu Once A Week

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day



Week 10

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

HCG 250iu Once A Week

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 11

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

HCG 250iu Once A Week

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 12

Test E 500mg (250mg twice a week)

HCG 250iu Once A Week

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 13

HCG 250iu (Twice this week on Pin Days)

Arimidex .25mg to .50mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 14

HCG 250iu Every Other Day

Arimidex .25mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 15

HCG 500iu Every Other Day

Arimidex .125mg Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 16

20mg Nolvadex Every Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 17

20mg Nolvadex Every Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 18

20mg Nolvadex Every Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 19

20mg Nolvadex Every Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day



Week 20

10mg Nolvadex Every Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


Week 21

10mg Nolvadex Every Other Day

Finasteride or Dutasteride Every Day


STOP Finasteride, consider saw palmetto.

 

[LateStart]

HCG 250 twice per week all the way until pct......maybe even 500 twice per week if needed. And pct needs clomid added at 50mg per day for week one and 25mg per day for the rest.
If I were doing this cycle then that's what I would change. I'd probably drop the fina but that's just me. I dont worry much about my hair and haven't had issues yet anyway. Hear too many stories of fina messing up libido and such.

Let us know what ya decide. And have fun bro. I'm sure others will jump in here with advice. Mine is based on your inclination "to circumvent the aforementioned approach".

 

[scorob777]

Exactly what he said ^^^^^^^^

I would do 250 HCG twice per week from day 1 up to start of PCT. Add the clomid as stated for PCT. Doing only nolva at 20mg/d is really minimal, increase your odds by adding clomid and maybe bump nolva to 40/d for first two weeks.

And as I think you already know there is no circumventing diet and workouts, especially diet. After you start doing these things in a serious way it is diet, diet, diet. I speak from experience as I can't eat enough to gain, unless I start prepping a bunch of carbs.

I'd also drop the finasteride, sides don't happen to everybody but to those who do it is horrific.

 

[J-Big]

Thank you for your prompt replies. I will definitely need the finasteride as MPB runs in the family and at 31 I'm seriously considering an FUE transplant after the cycle. I appreciate your input and will increase the Nolvadex to 40mg for the first two weeks as well as add clomid. I will let you guys know when i order my stuff and if the order is fulfilled successfully. It is my understanding that it's somewhat of a gamble with some of the purveyors listed on eroids, I'd imagine being in the states doesn't help either. Thanks again, will keep you posted.

 

[J-Big]

Also, thank you for reminding me about the training and the diet. (NOT BEING SARCASTIC) Before I start taking any of the stuff, I will set up a dietary plan and a mass building work out regiment. I never realized how much goes into planning a successful cycle until I actually started mapping it all out. Very time consuming when one does it in a structured manner.

 

[Megatron28]

I agree with everything the guys recommended. You would be wise to listen to them and not be selective in which parts you accept.

I would also like to recommend a blood work plan. Have you gotten pre-cycle labs? Do you know what labs to run? How about for mid-cycle and post-cycle?

I would also encourage you to get your diet and training solid for a several months BEFORE starting your cycle. If you need a cycle to be an excuse to finally train and eat right something is wrong. I also think you will be amazed by the gains you can make with just these two facets in place.


Good luck.

 

[J-Big]

I have a question, would it be better to use aromasin at a dose of 12.5g every other day as opposed to arimidex? I understand that arimidex can cause an estrogen rebound and this can be prevented by using aromasin instead. Also, would i taper off the aromasin during PCT, maybe 12.5g Every 2 days? Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this. I appreciate your insight.

 

[J-Big]

 

[J-Big]

Hi Megatron, thank you for your post. My training has been good for the last 1.5 years. My diet on the other hand, not so much. I don't eat junk but i know don't eat enough. I use protein shakes on a regular basis but yeah, I know I need to develop a structured meal plan to run in conjunction with my training. I considered blood work but its something else i need to thoroughly investigate. Haha, this is all very time consuming but also very captivating. I'm enjoying this entire planning phase. So much information to sift through, reminds me of college.

 

[scorob777]

The aromasin vs adex is really just a personal choice. I prefer aromasin. Yes it is suicidal so once it takes out the aromatase enzyme it is permanent so no rebound.

It has a half life of about 24 hours, so every day dosing is better than EOD. Adex on the other hand is fine for longer dosing intervals. If you can cut up the asin and take 6.25 ED that would be good. Take it throughout the cycle and in the gap weeks between last shot and start of PCT. If you want you can taper the dose by half in your week 14 and 15.

For diet hit up 3j for free advice or his service. I'll tell you if you don't eat enough you won't gain as much as you could. At least figure out your base rate and maintenance calories, and go through a count for a few days. It is an eye opener. And regarding the protein shakes, I love them personally, but be aware you absorb less than 20% if you take them on an empty stomach because they pass through you so fast your small intestine doesn't have time to absorb. What I interpret this to mean is take them with other solid food to slow it down so you can absorb the protein, and if you are going to do that (i.e. the solid food part) why not just eat meat??? I suspect you'll find out the cycle stuff is pretty straightforward after you get the basics nailed down, the diet it is hard and where the focus needs to be.

And lastly on bloodwork, don't debate or overthink this. Just do it. Don't miss the pre-cycle as you only have one chance in your life to do it, and trust me you'll regret if you don't. Do it again at week 7 or 8 to tune the AI up or down. The female hormone panel at privatemdlabs.com has LH, FSH, test, and E2 for a low cost, that should be the minimum you should get.

 

[Megatron28]

Read the FAQs thread linked below in my signature for info on getting blood work. And they have even more (and better) panels to choose from since I wrote that.

 

[PapaNoel]

I have a question, would it be better to use aromasin at a dose of 12.5g every other day as opposed to arimidex? I understand that arimidex can cause an estrogen rebound and this can be prevented by using aromasin instead. Also, would i taper off the aromasin during PCT, maybe 12.5g Every 2 days? Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this. I appreciate your insight.

I always forget which one does it.
But Im pretty sure adex also raises IGF1 levels, while aromasin does not.

I ran both my last cycle (even both same time) and honestly, couldn't tell you which one I'd prefer.
Asin should also be taken twice per day due to half life.

Please correct me if im wrong but asin terminal half life is like 9 hours while adex is 50ish hours?

 

[J-Big]

Hi guys, just wanted to touch base. Thus far here is what I have done with regards to this whole endeavor: I have successfully managed to procure what seems to be legit Test E from a vendor on eroids (NOT THE TOP VENDOR). I took a gamble and according to the Balkan Pharmaceuticals site, the codes are legit and have only been checked once (my self). Once I found that out, I ordered everything else (BP Aromasin, SP HCG, BP Tamoxifen, BP Clomid, and went with dutasteride) Just waiting on that order now, i have a tracking number and such. I have to say, I'm pretty stoked and very satisfied with the purveyor of the goods. Dear Megatron, do not worry about the lab tests, I will most definitely do tests before I take all this stuff. Still need to get pins and bacteriostatic H2o. Also, was contemplating adding some "Equipoise" Any suggestions? I would love tren but that's not an option due to MPB and honestly, I need my sleep to function and I already have trouble with that without any of this stuff. Just thought maybe equipoise could help curtail fat gains, though as I type this, I realize it may only make me look more vascular due to increased red blood cell count. Just thought I'd ask, THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP.

 

[J-Big]

Good Evening all, hope this message finds you well. Thus far I have the drawing pins (blunt 18G), ordered the bacteriostatic which is due to arrive mid October. I just need to receive my 23G 1" for my quads. I will order insulin needles for HCG since it seems its all the same with regards to intramuscular or subcutaneous. I will be ordering labs tomorrow. I will keep you posted. Also, yeah, scratched the thought of any additions to they first cycle. No one had any input which I will take as a sign as a bad idea. Megatron, I read your sticky and it explicitly states, solely test for the first one. Also, I looked at 3J's nutrition sticky and then I did some research on my own, I think the way to go about the nutrition is to start around 2700-2800 cals, 301 grams carbs, 201 protein and 74 fat. I will say, That's what muscle n fitness recommended on their site. This other dude who had great results went 2800 cals starting, 217 grams carbs, 301 protein, 81 fats. I think due to increased protein synthesis more protein makes sense. Any insight would be appreciate. THANKS AGAIN GUYS. Just so you know, I'm not fucking around guys, I intend to start this thing mid October. I WILL NOT START WITHOUT ALL MY SUPPLIES. I WILL NOT START WITHOUT HAVING ALL MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED. I am grateful for these forums, also went to ASF and got some verification on the questionable nature of Balkan Pharmaceuticals. I think ill be alright with my purveyor and honestly, if something goes awry, I will procure from wherever seems best because I am not willing to do this half assed. Thanks again, J from California.

 

[LateStart]

I somehow missed where you asked about multiple compounds, I see it now. No.....absolutely not. Test only for first cycle.....PERIOD. Why?......because the name of the game is safe usage, which means controlling side effects. If you use multiple compounds on your first cycle and you get sides then you don't know where to start with adjusting them. Test only ....gives you the opportunity to see how you respond. If you have legit test then it will be PLENTY for a first cycle.

As far as diet.....read up on 3js stuff. Diet will dictate results. This is where the majority of cycle mistakes take place. Lots and lots and lots of clean food for maximum gains. Your meals should be very clean ,very big and very frequent.

Please keep us posted as you go along. You could do a cycle log and record your experience for others to learn from......if ya wanna.

Good luck bro

 

[J-Big]

Good morning all! I just received my lab test results. I noticed a few things said they were high, the one that stood out was the Estradiol at 43.1. I'm not on my stuff yet, these are the blood work results before I start anything. Wondered what some of you guys thought. Was also wondering if maybe I should see a doctor about it. Thank you in advance. I attached a PDF of the lab results. Also, i'm not on a DHT blocker either, just multivitamins and biotin for hair health.

 

[scorob777]

Here's what I see:

Hematocrit looks great

Glucose is too high, like you didn't fast before the test. If you did fast this is a problem, if not don't worry about it - fast next time and check it.

BUN is too high, like you are eating a ton of protein powder or supplements. Kidneys are stressed.

Liver looks amazing

Test looks good

E2 is too high, but probably not too high for any meds if off cycle. Are you eating anything known to ramp estrogen?

 

[J-Big]

Tankmanbob, thank you for your analysis. I do consume protein shakes and bars frequently. I didn't eat before the bloodwork but I did have some beers and a big meal the night before, fairly late about 6 to 7 hours before the blood was taken. As far as the E2; man, I do not know. I don't eat anything that stands out, maybe a lot of whole grains? Also. I consume lots of milk, cottage cheese and yogurt. Seeds too, like trail mix with pine nuts and such.

 

[J-Big]

Late start, thank you for your reply I will definitely set up daily meal plans that are tailored for muscle building, ideally I'd like to meal prep and cook alot twice a week. Time consuming but necessary.

 

[J-Big]

Dear all, I just did my first pin. definitely spilled some test pulling out the drawing needle. Idiot. good thing is I have 2 more full vials. Wasnt bad at all. used 23G 1" into thigh. A little weird but not bad. Now to reconstitute some HCG.