Test-E and Dbol cycle - need advice

[ICEMAN11]

Hi guys, I've been lurking around this forum for quite a bit, and decided to register a couple days ago.

I'm 26, 5'11, 195lbs at 10% bf. I've been into bodybuilding for 8 years, sometimes less and sometimes more, but my diet has been rather clean for all 8 years. I've been hitting the weights much harder for the past couple of years and have decided I want to do my first cycle.

Had my bw done last week and it came out fine, my doctor said I'm good to go. (After lecturing me about steroid use).

I'm running a good novice cycle I'd think.
12w Test-E 500mg/w
6w Dbol 50mg/ed

My goal is to bulk (20-30lbs), and keep 10lbs @10%bf. Adding a bit of fat and bloating doesn't really bother me as my diet is clean and I don't have problems cutting.

I have a couple questions about PCT.
I plan on using Nolva and Clomid. First of all, dosage?
Also does dosage depend on my weight, or the type of cycle I'm running (quantity)?

According to what I have read, I should be using some AI during this cycle right?
Would 0.5mg Arimidex/eod be sufficient?

Should I do a lower dose of Dbol? 50mg/ed is at the higher end of the chart for beginners, according to what I have read.

Is there anything else I should look into or maybe adding? For example HGH during or post cycle perhaps?

 

[halfwit]

Well, for starters your doc now has you on file declaring your interest in abusing hormones. So if things go south, and you end up not recovering - it's going to be quite the uphill battle.

Secondly, test ONLY for your first cycle. Save the dbol for next time. Yes, that dose of adex should be fine, but I'd start at 0.25mg EOD to see if that's adequate. Better too little AI, than too much.

SERM dosing et cetera can be found in the FAQ at the top of this forum. I'd list it, but I don't PCT (TRT) - so I don't keep those numbers on the top of my head.

Welcome to ology.

 

[ICEMAN11]

Well, for starters your doc now has you on file declaring your interest in abusing hormones. So if things go south, and you end up not recovering - it's going to be quite the uphill battle.

Secondly, test ONLY for your first cycle. Save the dbol for next time. Yes, that dose of adex should be fine, but I'd start at 0.25mg EOD to see if that's adequate. Better too little AI, than too much.

SERM dosing et cetera can be found in the FAQ at the top of this forum. I'd list it, but I don't PCT (TRT) - so I don't keep those numbers on the top of my head.

Welcome to ology.

Doc is a family friend, he assured me that I wouldn't have any problems on my medical record.

Thanks for the advice halfwit. I will take it and run a test-e only cycle.
Why do I want to use as little as possible of Adex?
Also I'm curious why you don't do PCT?

 

[JackedinMI]

I know you said you have been lurking for a bit, if you havent read this i highly recommend it
it has all the information you will need for sure and answer all your questions reguarding AI and your PCT

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/675497-ology-frequently-asked-questions.html

also from Mega in another thread

Better first cycle is:

500mg/wk Test Cyp or Enanthate (pin 250mg every 3.5 days) for 10 weeks
.25mg Arimidex EOD for 13 weeks
250iu pf hCG every 3.5 days (pin at same time as Test) for 13 weeks

Start PCT in week 14. Use Clomid and Nolva. I will let other guys chime in on PCT dosages by week, but note that PCT should not include hCG as it is HPTA suppressive.

Keep Raloxifene on hand in case signs of Gynecomastia appear.

Read the link in my signature for info on getting pre, mid and post-cycle blood work.

Donate blood before cycle and on cycle to manage hematocrit.

Key is getting diet structured to reap the benefits of your cycle. Will you be cutting or bulking?

and the reason halfwit doesnt PCT is because he is on TRT, so he is constantly on test all the time with no break
and the reason you want to use as little ADEX as possible like halfwit said is because its easy to increase and adjust the dose if issues arise, and you will be able to see how your body reacts to it at smaller doses, you may not need more, but in the event you do you can gradually add it as needed.

 

[3J]

start off with a lower adex dosage.. .25mg eod to start.. if you notice more bloating go up to .5

whats your diet going to look like while on cycle?? im guessing youre bulking?

 

[ICEMAN11]

Thanks, will lower the adex dose to .25mg/eod

I'll probably just keep the diet similar to my last bulk. If I'm feeling extra hungry I just eat some more.

250g protein
450g carbs
150g fats
=4.150cal

This has worked well for me before, I burn calories very fast, so cutting is never difficult. Anything I should change perhaps?

 

[ICEMAN11]

PCT:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20mg
Clomid 100/100/50/50mg

 

[3J]

Thanks, will lower the adex dose to .25mg/eod

I'll probably just keep the diet similar to my last bulk. If I'm feeling extra hungry I just eat some more.

250g protein
450g carbs
150g fats
=4.150cal

This has worked well for me before, I burn calories very fast, so cutting is never difficult. Anything I should change perhaps?

thats a breath of fresh air..

looks good!!! you must know your body to take it up to 4k so quickly.. usually i advise peopple to start a little lower and raise it up to keep from gaining too much fat..

but 4k calories is a great place to be.. increase as need be!

 

[ICEMAN11]

thats a breath of fresh air..

looks good!!! you must know your body to take it up to 4k so quickly.. usually i advise peopple to start a little lower and raise it up to keep from gaining too much fat..

but 4k calories is a great place to be.. increase as need be!

Okay, you have to forgive me for asking so many questions, a lot of different sources with different opinions and information and I really want to do this the proper way.

A couple days ago I read that Nolva 40/40/20/20 and Clomid 100/100/50/50 would be fine doses, but now I just read on this forum that 100mg Clomid is a huge dose.
Should I cut it down to 50/50/25/25 ? Or 50/50/50/50

Also a friend of mine who has been introducing me to the gear says Nolva only is fine for PCT, that's cr*p right?

He also claims that he has run all his cycles without AI's and hasn't had problems, differs from each person I guess. Should I maybe start without using AI's and just add them if I feel side effects?

I have also found lots of different claims on when to start PCT. I thought it was 14 days, but some people seem to say at least 18 days, preferrably 21 days due to the long halflife of the Test. Any input would be greatfully accepted.

 

[PresTex]

Okay, you have to forgive me for asking so many questions, a lot of different sources with different opinions and information and I really want to do this the proper way.

A couple days ago I read that Nolva 40/40/20/20 and Clomid 100/100/50/50 would be fine doses, but now I just read on this forum that 100mg Clomid is a huge dose.
Should I cut it down to 50/50/25/25 ? Or 50/50/50/50

Also a friend of mine who has been introducing me to the gear says Nolva only is fine for PCT, that's cr*p right?

He also claims that he has run all his cycles without AI's and hasn't had problems, differs from each person I guess. Should I maybe start without using AI's and just add them if I feel side effects?

I have also found lots of different claims on when to start PCT. I thought it was 14 days, but some people seem to say at least 18 days, preferrably 21 days due to the long halflife of the Test. Any input would be greatfully accepted.

Some people think the side effects associated with clomid are much more prevalent at higher doses like 100mg and 50mg is more than enough. So if you're concerned about it you could always run the clomid at 50/50/25/25. But most people don't have too much issue with running clomid at 100mg/day.

Nolva is a SERM that blocks estrogen at the receptor rather than acting on the actual estrogen in your body. Although Nolva is most commonly used for PCT it is not limited to that. Its common practice to keep it on hand in the case that your e2 gets to high and gyno starts to develop. So I would definitely suggest keeping extra on hand as you do not know your level of aromatization or if you're gyno sensitive so if your e2 ends up getting too high, you'll be prepared. Best to plan for the worse so you won't be caught with your pants down and end up with big ol' man boobs.

To take that one step further, do not wait to see side effects, you need to take preemptive measures to prevent problems, not address something after it has already become an issue. Everyone reacts differently to hormones. But most people will aromatize and need to control estradiol with an AI so don't expect to be one of the very few people who can get away without using an AI. Start your AI low like was suggested and go from there.

Most people wait 14 days to start PCT, you can wait longer if you would like to make sure any exogenous test has cleared your system. Completely up to you.

 

[luckypaul]

Bro your stats don't agree with the detecation you speak of.

A good novice cycle is 500mg test ew.

Check training and diet. I'm not trying to be s prick or embarrass you, but your claims are not supported by your stats.

 

[ICEMAN11]

Bro your stats don't agree with the detecation you speak of.

A good novice cycle is 500mg test ew.

Check training and diet. I'm not trying to be s prick or embarrass you, but your claims are not supported by your stats.

My bodyfat is higher than 10%, more likely closer to 14%. When I wrote the post I wasn't quite sure, so I estimated, and I just estimated wrong, realized soon afterwards but didn't bother to edit it. Didn't think it would really matter as I am asking about cycle advice, not diet/training advice.
I know diet is crucial, and far more important than the gear and training. But I know how to keep my diet in check, and my training.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[ICEMAN11]

Some people think the side effects associated with clomid are much more prevalent at higher doses like 100mg and 50mg is more than enough. So if you're concerned about it you could always run the clomid at 50/50/25/25. But most people don't have too much issue with running clomid at 100mg/day.

Nolva is a SERM that blocks estrogen at the receptor rather than acting on the actual estrogen in your body. Although Nolva is most commonly used for PCT it is not limited to that. Its common practice to keep it on hand in the case that your e2 gets to high and gyno starts to develop. So I would definitely suggest keeping extra on hand as you do not know your level of aromatization or if you're gyno sensitive so if your e2 ends up getting too high, you'll be prepared. Best to plan for the worse so you won't be caught with your pants down and end up with big ol' man boobs.

To take that one step further, do not wait to see side effects, you need to take preemptive measures to prevent problems, not address something after it has already become an issue. Everyone reacts differently to hormones. But most people will aromatize and need to control estradiol with an AI so don't expect to be one of the very few people who can get away without using an AI. Start your AI low like was suggested and go from there.

Most people wait 14 days to start PCT, you can wait longer if you would like to make sure any exogenous test has cleared your system. Completely up to you.

Thanks for a very good and thorough reply. Much appreciated.

 

[luckypaul]

When I say diet, I don't mean dieting. You don't want to diet friend. What I mean is consuming enough calories and grams of protien to put on the 25lbs you are looking for in this cycle.

From what I am reading there is a problem in your diet and training.

When bulking you have to eat big and lift heavy, or steroids will not get you there. I suspect your caloric intake, protein intake and training are off.

Eat big. Get plenty of high quality protein and lift big.

If you do the above, you will see a 25lb increase in weight and a reduction in body fat.

Good luck. Keep us posted on your progerss.

LP

 

[ICEMAN11]

When I say diet, I don't mean dieting. You don't want to diet friend. What I mean is consuming enough calories and grams of protien to put on the 25lbs you are looking for in this cycle.

From what I am reading there is a problem in your diet and training.

When bulking you have to eat big and lift heavy, or steroids will not get you there. I suspect your caloric intake, protein intake and training are off.

Eat big. Get plenty of high quality protein and lift big.

If you do the above, you will see a 25lb increase in weight and a reduction in body fat.

Good luck. Keep us posted on your progerss.

LP

Oh I'll be eating as much as I can. 4k cal will be a daily minimum.
I will post a new thread when I start the cycle to keep track of progress. Won't start until january though. I dont wanna miss out days during christmas.

 

[Milton]

sounds good keep us updated.

 

[mich29]

Hi guys, I've been lurking around this forum for quite a bit, and decided to register a couple days ago.

I'm 26, 5'11, 195lbs at 10% bf. I've been into bodybuilding for 8 years, sometimes less and sometimes more, but my diet has been rather clean for all 8 years. I've been hitting the weights much harder for the past couple of years and have decided I want to do my first cycle.

Had my bw done last week and it came out fine, my doctor said I'm good to go. (After lecturing me about steroid use).

I'm running a good novice cycle I'd think.
12w Test-E 500mg/w
6w Dbol 50mg/ed

My goal is to bulk (20-30lbs), and keep 10lbs @10%bf. Adding a bit of fat and bloating doesn't really bother me as my diet is clean and I don't have problems cutting.

I have a couple questions about PCT.
I plan on using Nolva and Clomid. First of all, dosage?
Also does dosage depend on my weight, or the type of cycle I'm running (quantity)?

According to what I have read, I should be using some AI during this cycle right?
Would 0.5mg Arimidex/eod be sufficient?

Should I do a lower dose of Dbol? 50mg/ed is at the higher end of the chart for beginners, according to what I have read.

Is there anything else I should look into or maybe adding? For example HGH during or post cycle perhaps?

since your taking dbol add in some cycle support pick up some mr supps tudca to help protect your liver and also make sure to get in plently of water