Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) problem I have

bob35614

New member
TRT problem I have

I have been injecting testosterone cyp for a few years now for my sex drive which disappeared after I got on MMT and my levels dropped big time. I was blown away how great it worked to bring my sex drive back for quite a while. But the last six months I noticed it seemed to be not working as good. Now for the last couple months my erections dont come like they did and when they do they are not rock hard more of a semi hard on and in the middle of sex it goes soft. I inject 2 shots a week of test. cyp. each one 100 ml. It seems to be getting worse like Im not even using test anymore. Plus I notice I get real moody and get upset about real stupid shit that happens. Doing some reading on this forum I wonder if this is all due to estrogen levels to high. I have never been tested for estrogen. I really want to get back like it used to be using test. so Im asking all you pros to give me some ideas what I should do? Thanks in advance!
 
Yeah it sounds like high estrogen and possibly prolactin.

There is another gentleman that is having similar issues here in this thread.
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/t...83-200mg-test-cyp-3-months-having-issues.html

Me and him discussed what was happening.

I agree High Estro can cause this, moody and poor sexdrive. Blood work is always a good Idea when on TRT/HRT or even just cycling. I generally have Blood work 2ce a year. AI's are always good to have on hand and or anti e.
 
Thank you guys for the replies. I missed that post somehow but it sounds like my problem. Im going to go back to doctor and have blood work done. I bet estrogen is high after reading some more on this forum. Will Arminex bring the levels down fairly fast or is it a slow process?
 
Thank you guys for the replies. I missed that post somehow but it sounds like my problem. Im going to go back to doctor and have blood work done. I bet estrogen is high after reading some more on this forum. Will Arminex bring the levels down fairly fast or is it a slow process?

If you have arimidex, you will feel the effect within a day. There was times I took it and felt better (not as moody) within hours.
 
Correct... Mood improvement, water retention and nipple sensitivity will subside relatively quick.

Sexual sides may take a bit longer if your estrogen increased prolactin and that is what is causing the ED or decreased "sensitivity".

That is if you only use a AI.... if you also use dostinex or prami(dopamine agonists) they will lower your prolactin much faster and your sexual health will improve more quickly.
 
BOB... I'm confused? Unless i misread your post, i thought you were only talking about the test you have been running, which no clinic, doc, quack, or anyone else should ever script you without an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and hcg, but there are replies to your post also referring to caber and dostinex??? How or why would the use of those two drugs apply to a patient that was only using test?? Maybe i "misread"...?
 
I never mentioned caber or dostinex lol. I don't know what you are talking about. I just told him to cut his cyp dose in half from too much estrogen conversion. If he is getting these aromatase sides on 200mg a week he is using too much.
 
BOB... I'm confused? Unless i misread your post, i thought you were only talking about the test you have been running, which no clinic, doc, quack, or anyone else should ever script you without an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), but there are replies to your post also referring to caber and dostinex??? How or why would the use of those two drugs apply to a patient that was only using test?? Maybe i "misread"...?

Chip,

Elevated estrogen levels can raise prolactin levels in some individuals. Elevated prolactin is caused by elevated 19-nor/progistins and/or estrogen levels.

Treating only the estrogen will work but take much longer to fix any sexual problems that he may be having if his prolactin is also elevated.

The only way to be sure is to do some bloodwork.

If you wouldve clicked on the link in my first post you would've found that this was discussed in the other thread.

Thanks
 
Chip,

Elevated estrogen levels can raise prolactin levels in some individuals. Elevated prolactin is caused by elevated 19-nor/progistins and/or estrogen levels.

Treating only the estrogen will work but take much longer to fix any sexual problems that he may be having if his prolactin is also elevated.

The only way to be sure is to do some bloodwork.

If you wouldve clicked on the link in my first post you would've found that this was discussed in the other thread.

Thanks

Prolactin levels can also be affected by the thyroid. Bloodwork will show your TSH levels T3, T4, if too low could equate to prolactin. Specifically exacerbated by progestins like deca, tren, which have high affinity to the PR (Progesterone Receptor).
Estrogen production with testosterone has nothing to do with prolactin. Two separate pathways- It is a separate component. The only prolactin is increased is through low TSH, or use of progestins which antagonize progesterone.
Suggesting Dostinex or Cabergoline is a high risk solution whereas using Letrozole or Toremifene which help with elimination of progesterone while using a progestin is a better and safer alternative.
 
Estrogen does increase Prolactin...

Here is a good write up on prolactin. I'll post some studies if you want em'

"Most people have never heard of the peptide hormone, Prolactin. The name seems innocent enough, but this little neuroendocrine peptide can give you a whole of host of problems that you never thought possible. Prolactin’s primary job in the body is to aid in breast development, and, after pregnancy, Prolactin produces breast milk. Now if you are a man reading this article, you may be asking yourself, “Why would I have Prolactin problems?” Well, unfortunately, men and women are basically the same human template, and Prolactin production is part of life for both genders. Basically, 3 hormones play roles in both male and female bodies: Testosterone, Progesterone and Estrogen. It’s the varying amounts of these hormones, as well as the ratio they are produced in that really affects a great deal of the physiological and endrocrinological (hormonal) differences between men and women.
So what effect does Prolactin, the peptide hormone, have on these three primary hormones in the human body? Prolactin production is adjusted in the body by all three of these hormones, however, Estrogen is the primary
mastermind behind Prolactin production. Prolactin is basically a female hormone, but it does serve a purpose in men, though its purpose may not be considered beneficial by most men. For example, primary surges in
Prolactin occurs after orgasm in males to let the male body know its “done”. In fact, the surge in Prolactin ensures this feeling by immediately reducing sexual desire as well as erectile response. Basically, Prolactin acts
as an “off” switch -- not exactly a beneficial function in most men’s minds, though surely there are women that are quite thankful for this biological hiatus. That being said, high Prolactin levels are a common cause of
impotence and loss of sexual desire in both men and women. Sex is just one area where Prolactin may have negative effects on the body and mind. In addition to this, Prolactin also demands increases in food intake -- this is why the urge to raid the fridge after coitus is not uncommon. Studies in animals indicate that high Prolactin can increase food intake by as much as 20%. Studies with Prolactin suppressors in humans have shown significant decreases in food intake and fat loss, even where Prolactin levels are not considered to be “elevated”. For men, Prolactin presents an additional issue. It can cause and aggravate gynecomastia. Prolactin’s effects on gynecomastia are worse when there is existing breast tissue from puberty and/or when there is high level of Estrogen present already. Also, as
mentioned before, when high levels of Estrogen are present in this case, production of Prolactin in the body is further encouraged, thus compounding problems at hand and making the ordeal cyclic. Prolactin surges and spikes can be dealt with through several mechanisms. The first way to deal with Prolactin surges and spikes is to reduce your body’s level of Estrogen. In women, this generally means losing body fat, since the more body fat a woman has, the more Estrogen her body produces. In men, loss of body fat and/or the use of an aromatase inhibitor can reduce the level Estrogen in the male body, thus suppressing the effects of Prolactin as well. Some SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) and Phytoestrogens (natural SERMs) may also be of benefit for women and to a lesser extent men, however, the downside to using SERMs is the Estrogenic components may cause other issues, like increasing adipose (fat) tissue storage. The SERMS can do this by upregulating the A2 adrenoceptor (Estrogenic fat). Overall, a SERM may help reduce your prolactin levels through its anti-estorogenic actions, but it may also cause unfavorable stubborn fat storage because of its estrogenic actions. The second way to deal with Prolactin surges and spikes is to increase Dopamine or dopaminergic activity. An increase in Dopamine would help Polactin spikes because it stops Prolactin’s effects by inhibiting its release of Prolactin into the body at all. Dopamine levels in the body can be increased by using supplements, like Neurogenex, and with European nootropics, like Selegiline and Hydergine. You can also use Dopamine agonists, like velvet bean (l-dopa), some extracts of tribulus and vitex, as well as drugs like nicotine, cabaser or bromocriptine (however, please don’t smoke, if you want to use nicotine as a Dopamine agonist – chew nicotine gum or lozenges). So which option is best for you? Of all these options, Cabaser has the highest dopaminergic potency and is strongest at Prolactin suppression, followed by Bromocriptine. Selegiline, Hydergine and nicotine are all moderately strong inhibitors of Prolactin, though nicotine’s mechanism toward Prolactin inhibition and Dopamine production is different from the others. Amongst the herbal options, Vitex is the most potent suppressor, at least in women. Vitex’s effect in men is not as well established. Neurogenex suppresses Prolactin via the nicotinic and acetylcholine pathways. These pathways then affect Dopamine transmission, and the potency of the Dopamine transmission here ultimately depends on the individual. Neurogenex, when combined with supplements or Dopamine-increasing drugs, like selegiline, is a fairly potent suppressor of Prolactin. The third way to deal with Prolactin surges and spikes is to avoid overheating. High body temperatures, especially hot-headedness, increase Prolactin release. Men with puffy nipples may be aware of this since heat worsens puffiness; this is the direct result of increased Prolactin release. So, when exercising, make sure to keep your head cool, and drinking COLD water can help as well. Studies indicate that even if the body’s core temperature does increase, so long as the individual’s head is cool the prolactin surge is significantly blunted. The heat-induced Prolactin surge is also significant when it comes to food intake. Overheating during exercise will cause a Prolactin surge which can lead to greater consumption of calories following exercise. This echoes the body responses described earlier, including the increased adipose (fat) storage that could be induced as well.
We hope you have come away with a basic understanding and summary of the ills of Prolactin as well as some of ways in which you can avoid or decrease Prolactin levels. Future articles will delve into the individual topics
regarding Prolactin’s effects on sexual desire, adiposity and gynecomastia, as well as other elements and effects of Prolactin-reducing regimens."---crfpilot14 (MD on another forum I frequent)
 
Estrogen does increase Prolactin...

Here is a good write up on prolactin. I'll post some studies if you want em'

"Most people have never heard of the peptide hormone, Prolactin. The name seems innocent enough, but this little neuroendocrine peptide can give you a whole of host of problems that you never thought possible. Prolactin’s primary job in the body is to aid in breast development, and, after pregnancy, Prolactin produces breast milk. Now if you are a man reading this article, you may be asking yourself, “Why would I have Prolactin problems?” Well, unfortunately, men and women are basically the same human template, and Prolactin production is part of life for both genders. Basically, 3 hormones play roles in both male and female bodies: Testosterone, Progesterone and Estrogen. It’s the varying amounts of these hormones, as well as the ratio they are produced in that really affects a great deal of the physiological and endrocrinological (hormonal) differences between men and women.
So what effect does Prolactin, the peptide hormone, have on these three primary hormones in the human body? Prolactin production is adjusted in the body by all three of these hormones, however, Estrogen is the primary
mastermind behind Prolactin production. Prolactin is basically a female hormone, but it does serve a purpose in men, though its purpose may not be considered beneficial by most men. For example, primary surges in
Prolactin occurs after orgasm in males to let the male body know its “done”. In fact, the surge in Prolactin ensures this feeling by immediately reducing sexual desire as well as erectile response. Basically, Prolactin acts
as an “off” switch -- not exactly a beneficial function in most men’s minds, though surely there are women that are quite thankful for this biological hiatus. That being said, high Prolactin levels are a common cause of
impotence and loss of sexual desire in both men and women. Sex is just one area where Prolactin may have negative effects on the body and mind. In addition to this, Prolactin also demands increases in food intake -- this is why the urge to raid the fridge after coitus is not uncommon. Studies in animals indicate that high Prolactin can increase food intake by as much as 20%. Studies with Prolactin suppressors in humans have shown significant decreases in food intake and fat loss, even where Prolactin levels are not considered to be “elevated”. For men, Prolactin presents an additional issue. It can cause and aggravate gynecomastia. Prolactin’s effects on gynecomastia are worse when there is existing breast tissue from puberty and/or when there is high level of Estrogen present already. Also, as
mentioned before, when high levels of Estrogen are present in this case, production of Prolactin in the body is further encouraged, thus compounding problems at hand and making the ordeal cyclic. Prolactin surges and spikes can be dealt with through several mechanisms. The first way to deal with Prolactin surges and spikes is to reduce your body’s level of Estrogen. In women, this generally means losing body fat, since the more body fat a woman has, the more Estrogen her body produces. In men, loss of body fat and/or the use of an aromatase inhibitor can reduce the level Estrogen in the male body, thus suppressing the effects of Prolactin as well. Some SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) and Phytoestrogens (natural SERMs) may also be of benefit for women and to a lesser extent men, however, the downside to using SERMs is the Estrogenic components may cause other issues, like increasing adipose (fat) tissue storage. The SERMS can do this by upregulating the A2 adrenoceptor (Estrogenic fat). Overall, a SERM may help reduce your prolactin levels through its anti-estorogenic actions, but it may also cause unfavorable stubborn fat storage because of its estrogenic actions. The second way to deal with Prolactin surges and spikes is to increase Dopamine or dopaminergic activity. An increase in Dopamine would help Polactin spikes because it stops Prolactin’s effects by inhibiting its release of Prolactin into the body at all. Dopamine levels in the body can be increased by using supplements, like Neurogenex, and with European nootropics, like Selegiline and Hydergine. You can also use Dopamine agonists, like velvet bean (l-dopa), some extracts of tribulus and vitex, as well as drugs like nicotine, cabaser or bromocriptine (however, please don’t smoke, if you want to use nicotine as a Dopamine agonist – chew nicotine gum or lozenges). So which option is best for you? Of all these options, Cabaser has the highest dopaminergic potency and is strongest at Prolactin suppression, followed by Bromocriptine. Selegiline, Hydergine and nicotine are all moderately strong inhibitors of Prolactin, though nicotine’s mechanism toward Prolactin inhibition and Dopamine production is different from the others. Amongst the herbal options, Vitex is the most potent suppressor, at least in women. Vitex’s effect in men is not as well established. Neurogenex suppresses Prolactin via the nicotinic and acetylcholine pathways. These pathways then affect Dopamine transmission, and the potency of the Dopamine transmission here ultimately depends on the individual. Neurogenex, when combined with supplements or Dopamine-increasing drugs, like selegiline, is a fairly potent suppressor of Prolactin. The third way to deal with Prolactin surges and spikes is to avoid overheating. High body temperatures, especially hot-headedness, increase Prolactin release. Men with puffy nipples may be aware of this since heat worsens puffiness; this is the direct result of increased Prolactin release. So, when exercising, make sure to keep your head cool, and drinking COLD water can help as well. Studies indicate that even if the body’s core temperature does increase, so long as the individual’s head is cool the prolactin surge is significantly blunted. The heat-induced Prolactin surge is also significant when it comes to food intake. Overheating during exercise will cause a Prolactin surge which can lead to greater consumption of calories following exercise. This echoes the body responses described earlier, including the increased adipose (fat) storage that could be induced as well.
We hope you have come away with a basic understanding and summary of the ills of Prolactin as well as some of ways in which you can avoid or decrease Prolactin levels. Future articles will delve into the individual topics
regarding Prolactin’s effects on sexual desire, adiposity and gynecomastia, as well as other elements and effects of Prolactin-reducing regimens."---crfpilot14 (MD on another forum I frequent)

Boy, you sure love your clinical studies. What everybody needs to be cognizant of is that Estrogen must be at high enough levels to work synergistically with high levels of prolactin or progesterone, to cause breast development and lactation. Even with the use of tren, and deca there is serious debate on how much estrogen plays a part for men in raising prolactin.
 
Boy, you sure love your clinical studies. What everybody needs to be cognizant of is that Estrogen must be at high enough levels to work synergistically with high levels of prolactin or progesterone, to cause breast development and lactation. Even with the use of tren, and deca there is serious debate on how much estrogen plays a part for men in raising prolactin.

LOL...Yeah I do like my studies. Although Ive heard actual accounts of men having this very issue from time to time on several forums.They confirmed elevated estrogen was the root cause of the prolactin issues after having bloodwork done.

I agree it is much rarer for this to happen (especially lactation) when only estrogen is elevated and a progestin/19-nor is not being used but it happens to some individuals.
 
Prolactin levels can also be affected by the thyroid. Bloodwork will show your TSH levels T3, T4, if too low could equate to prolactin. Specifically exacerbated by progestins like deca, tren, which have high affinity to the PR (Progesterone Receptor).
.

you are correct in saying this, the thyroid does play a huge role in prolactin secretion.

At the same time though you totally proved the elevated estrogen issue correct.

T3 and T4 play a role in aromatase inhibition, therefore when its suppressed so is your aromtase inhibition. In turn elevating estrogen.

this could go back in fourth til we are all blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is if his prolactin is high, his estrogen probably is too.

It is clearly documented that hormonal imbalances, including estrogen play a role in prolactin secretion. That or a tumor in the pituitary, which consequently could be caused by elevated levels of estrogen. so im just wondering who is having this big debate?
 
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Op all of the symptoms you are having point to increased prolactin, a quick google search will show that Centurion has pointed you in the right direction.
 
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