the completely out of control Newbie Cycle - check this out...

[texas.redneck]

Ha! I got you to look at my thread..thanks for checking me out. So about that out of control newbie thing, unfortunately, I'm just doing a boring 10 week of 500mg Test Enanthate cycle....ha. I figured if I said that in subject line no one wants to look at another boring newbie testosterone only cycle...so thanks in advance for feedback.

I also wanted to note that I originally joined Meso-RX but wasn't a big fan of that forum. The feedback mostly seems to be jacked up over cussing douche bags. You know the type that drop F bombs like every sentence to the point it's really hard to even take them seriously. Probably too much Testosterone...ha.

Before anyone comments on my cycle, I'm trying to use the minimum amount of drugs as possible. So any advice on that would help. For example, if there is really no reason to waste my estrogen blockers on 500mg of Test then I'd like opinions on that. However, I do want to be conservative and not risk gyno and all that crap.

So my cycle:

10 weeks 500 mg Advanced Pharma Test Enanthate. Two pins per week Sunday morning and Wednesday night
Aromisin starting week 3 for 8.5 weeks.
PCT - I have Clomid, Nolva, and HCG. But like I said I want to be conservative with my stash. I was going to do standard 20 days of Clomid and Nolva 14 days after last injection...open for feedback. I'm not even sure if I want to mess with HCG...

I was going to just use Nova for estrogen control because my order of Aromisin was delayed and I didn't think I would get it. I had some Anastrozle also but I was being cheap and wanted to save it for my second more powerful cycle that I plan to do in Fall or next spring if all goes well with this cycle. It just seemed overkill to me to waste some expensive Anastrozle on a beginner cycle that many men say not even to take estrogen blockers for. However, after getting completely hammered on Mes-Rx and ***************** that it's just completely retarded to use Nova on cycle (even though old school people used to do this) and since my order of Aromisin finally arrived, I plan to just take the aromisin now.

That being said, if I break these Aromisin tabs in half I have quantity of 60 12.5mg which is roughly 8.5 weeks work. So I'm thinking of waiting until third week to start it. this will run me through the end of my cycle with maybe a week after cycle ends.

I also have HCG if necessary.

 

[texas.redneck]

I just started week 2 this morning. My experience of week 1 was that I think I have shitty gear with high BA content. My first pin last Sunday I went in right side of right quad about an inch above IT band in middle third of quad (like if you divided your quad in thirds starting at knee up to hips I went in middle). Zero pain from pin, I couldn't even feel injection point. However, about 12-24 hours later my quad exploded like it was hit with a bat! It was very misleading because I injected on side and quad blue up on the upper or top part (like if you are sitting and looking down at quad). At first I thought it was ingrown hair because it was good 5 inches away from injection. Then about 72 hours later it went away.

Second pin was left glute with same result. No pain at all after injection but then about 12-24 hours later my glute just blew up and I could hardly get in and out of my truck. Then it slowly subsided although not as fast as my quad. Like my glute is still a little sore this morning.

Third pin was this morning and I went to left quad same thing only moved injection point a little further from IT band so it is right on the edge of where the lateral quad intersects with top quad muscle (I know I am totally effing up Kinesiology terms but hopefully you all get it). So no real pain right now. Just barely can feel muscle just like when I go to doctor and get a shot in the butt. So now I'm expecting to wake up tomorrow morning like I got hit with a bat in quad again if this goes like first time. However, I took a few more precautions this time like warming up oil in syringe by running under hot tap water (careful not to get it near needle or where needle screws in syringe. I also injected very slow and steady this time. I noticed the first two injections I had to really push the last 1/2 cc in hard but on this one I went real slow and steady and it went in real smooth this time.

 

[texas.redneck]

I almost forgot you may want stats:

Stats:
age: 36
weight: 190
I attached a couple pics below (I like to think my workout and diet are on point)

I haven't maxed out in a while but here are some general stats so you can make a good estimate. I take it easy on my body so if I had to guess the below numbers are all only maybe 95% of a true max:

On 5/1/2016
Snatches 3x205lbs
Two cleans + 1jerk w/225lbs

Squat 5x5 275lbs on 5/6/2016 (not to failure...I'm too old so probably could have done 5x5 with 300lbs or so)
Deadlift I avoid heavy deadlifts because they've caused me back problems in past which I've been rehabing. In January 2016 I deadlifted 315x 3 reps or so pretty easily
Bench - haven't benched in a while (it's bad for my shoulder flexiblity for the above mentioned Olympic lifts)
Dead hang pullups 10-15 reps

And Precycle labs (I got a free test at a testosterone therapy center so not that extensive):
Testosterone 517
Sex Horm Bind Globulin was 49
Free Test 8.47 based on the formula on this website issam.ch/freetesto.htm

 

[Roush]

couple points -

- running gear and messing with your bodies endocrine system, and risk screwing it up for life , is NO TIME TO BE CHEAP . don't skimp on your PCT or any other protocol , do it right or don't do it at all. Saving 10 bucks now is not worth having to pay thousands in medical bills later.

- run your HCG 'On cycle' , not in pct. this will make recovery go much smoother. you can mix 250iu in with each of your testosterone pins, or you can pin it sub q

- controlling estrogen is not just about preventing gyno, there are a host of other health problems that are caused by high estrogen, a lot of them you may not even know are a problem until you get blood work or later on (just because you don't feel the negative problem with outward symptoms does not mean there is not an inward problem) . taking your AI on cycle is a preventative measure, so just do it.


- you have 'virgin' muscle that have not got used to pinning gear. you just have to get used to the pain for now and eventually it goes away and is no big deal. heating the oil up and all that is not necessary ,, just keep pinning until you get used to it. make sure your rotating injections sites

 

[oldmusclemike]

Start AI on day one (1) to control your Estrogen which will be immediately effected on day one.
Got it day one.

Low Estrogen Side Effects:

- Osteoporosis (weakened bones) ; (long-term low levels)
- Poor sex drive
- Fatigue
- Lethargy
- Skin quality diminishes
- Depression
- Poor sense of wellbeing & poor quality of life

High Estrogen Side Effects:-
Gynecomastia ...is just one
- Anxiety & panic attacks
- Depression
- Erectile dysfunction
- Water retention
- High blood pressure
- Loss of balance/instability/dizziness
- Respiratory related concerns
- Irritability
- Low libido
- Insomnia
- Prostate related issues
- Crying like a little girl and being emotional all the time

 

[texas.redneck]

Start AI on day one (1) to control your Estrogen which will be immediately effected on day one.
Got it day one.

Point taken. So below are my two options and remember today is day 1 of week 2. I pinned my third 250mg Test this morning. I'm planning to go for 10 weeks.

Option 1. Anastrozole quantity 20 1mg tabs - So I believe standard protocol is break these in half and do eod. So if my math is correct after I break in half I have 40 pills. every other day equals 80 days. Divided by 7 days a week , that gives me an 11.4 week supply.

Option 2. Aromasin. quantity 30 25mg tabs. I believe same protocal as Anastrozle. Break these in half and do eod. So that gives me 60 pills, every other day equals 120 days, Divided by 7 days makes for 17 weeks.

So for this 10 week cycle I think I go with Option 1, Anastrozle, and save my option 2 for if/when I do my next cycle which will be in the 12-16 week range and probably be an actual "stack". So if I start option 1 Anastrozle today, I think it will take me out to about 1.4 weeks past my 10th week (last week of injections). In other words, it will take me out to middle of 12th week which will be right around when I start PCT if I stick with the standard 14 days post last injection. So it doesn't quite take me all the way through PCT but is that necessary? Remember I have nolva and clomid lined up for PCT.

How do you all feel about the Option 1 plan starting today? And do I take this with meals? or doesn't matter

 

[texas.redneck]

- run your HCG 'On cycle' , not in pct. this will make recovery go much smoother. you can mix 250iu in with each of your testosterone pins, or you can pin it sub q

So I was considering using the method where I run my 5,000 iu of HCG over the course of the last 4 weeks of my cycle. Weeks 7, 8, 9, 10 (1250 per week). Couple reasons: (1) I don't have a ton of HCG; (2) I read this was an acceptable method; (3) I heard once you mix up this HCG the shelf life is very short and I really don't want to go through hassle of being a chemist and trying to freeze syringes with it and all that.

What do you think?

 

[ELicit23]

How's your diet though?

 

[texas.redneck]

How's your diet though?

I have a food log that I update periodically and my trainer reviews it. I increased my food intake quite a bit this past week including protein and swapped out some Optimum Serious Mass instead of my regular protein powder to get extra calories. It's a pretty clean diet with proteins from salmon, chicken, and eggs mostly, good amounts of kale and broccoli. Carbs from rice, potatoes, outmeal fruit/protien smoothies.

 

[tbonexl]

Point taken. So below are my two options and remember today is day 1 of week 2. I pinned my third 250mg Test this morning. I'm planning to go for 10 weeks.

Option 1. Anastrozole quantity 20 1mg tabs - So I believe standard protocol is break these in half and do eod. So if my math is correct after I break in half I have 40 pills. every other day equals 80 days. Divided by 7 days a week , that gives me an 11.4 week supply.

Option 2. Aromasin. quantity 30 25mg tabs. I believe same protocal as Anastrozle. Break these in half and do eod. So that gives me 60 pills, every other day equals 120 days, Divided by 7 days makes for 17 weeks.

So for this 10 week cycle I think I go with Option 1, Anastrozle, and save my option 2 for if/when I do my next cycle which will be in the 12-16 week range and probably be an actual "stack". So if I start option 1 Anastrozle today, I think it will take me out to about 1.4 weeks past my 10th week (last week of injections). In other words, it will take me out to middle of 12th week which will be right around when I start PCT if I stick with the standard 14 days post last injection. So it doesn't quite take me all the way through PCT but is that necessary? Remember I have nolva and clomid lined up for PCT.

How do you all feel about the Option 1 plan starting today? And do I take this with meals? or doesn't matter

A couple things.. An ai isn't something that is affective at any dose. Your first option with the adex might be a bit overkill while your second option with adomasin most likely won't be enough. Blood work is required to see if your ai dose is dialed in correctly. Nobody can tell you over the internet or in person at what dose you should use an ai. It is impossible to do without blood work. Simple reason test only is recommended for a first cycle. Good time to dial in your choice of ai. Hcg should be ran from beginning of cycle up to pct along with your ai. Your pct most likely should begin around 3 weeks after last pin. You will have to look up pct calculator for more information on that. Your best bet is to read through the ology faq's thread. It covers everything you need to know. Running gear is expensive. If you want to be cheap about it then forget using gear and focus on diet. That in itself is expensive too. Diet is the most important key. Without a proper diet, your just wasting your time with gear. Being frugal with your cycle will only result in negative sides and lack of gains. Just some things to take into consideration...

 

[oldmusclemike]

A couple things.. An ai isn't something that is affective at any dose. Your first option with the adex might be a bit overkill while your second option with adomasin most likely won't be enough. Blood work is required to see if your ai dose is dialed in correctly. Nobody can tell you over the internet or in person at what dose you should use an ai. It is impossible to do without blood work. Simple reason test only is recommended for a first cycle. Good time to dial in your choice of ai. Hcg should be ran from beginning of cycle up to pct along with your ai. Your pct most likely should begin around 3 weeks after last pin. You will have to look up pct calculator for more information on that. Your best bet is to read through the ology faq's thread. It covers everything you need to know. Running gear is expensive. If you want to be cheap about it then forget using gear and focus on diet. That in itself is expensive too. Diet is the most important key. Without a proper diet, your just wasting your time with gear. Being frugal with your cycle will only result in negative sides and lack of gains. Just some things to take into consideration...

Damn OP you just got the summary and it's spot on. Read carefully what Roush is telling you, really teaching you. I just hate having to flatter the guy but he puts it all in good order for YOU. Read up more as was said.

Example of AI dosing. I had my BW done a few weeks before my cycle so I knew it was in the correct level. So I start my Test and Deca cycle knowing the aromatizing value and I begin with Arimidex at the standard dose at .25 EOD. I know I'm prone to some sides so I keep watch n feel of my body. I will get BW in a week two weeks as standard protocol.

I will say the details but being experienced I have tweaked my AI three times and now at .2 ED.
My future BW will tell the story more accurately.

As said you can't skimp on an AAS cycle and do it right. Skimping will only produce a bad cycle and or end up costing you more by the time it is over. Good Luck

 

[texas.redneck]

Damn OP you just got the summary and it's spot on. Read carefully what Roush is telling you, really teaching you. I just hate having to flatter the guy but he puts it all in good order for YOU. Read up more as was said.

Example of AI dosing. I had my BW done a few weeks before my cycle so I knew it was in the correct level. So I start my Test and Deca cycle knowing the aromatizing value and I begin with Arimidex at the standard dose at .25 EOD. I know I'm prone to some sides so I keep watch n feel of my body. I will get BW in a week two weeks as standard protocol.

I will say the details but being experienced I have tweaked my AI three times and now at .2 ED.
My future BW will tell the story more accurately.

As said you can't skimp on an AAS cycle and do it right. Skimping will only produce a bad cycle and or end up costing you more by the time it is over. Good Luck

So I'm hearing what you all are telling me. Basically this is what I'm hearing - get mid-cycle blood work and adjust. So you all aren't helping me at all with my question about the two options.

First, I thought the two options I laid out above were standard AI dosing and then men adjust from there? i.e. 0.5mg Anastrozle eod or 12.5mg Aromasin eod. Can you at least confirm those are right? one or the other not both at the same time, obvously...

Second, you all didn't help me out on which course of drugs to take. Do I start today with the Anastrozle that will run me 11.4 weeks (assuming my dosing above is right) Or do I start today with the Aromasin that will run me 17 weeks (assuming above dosing is right)? In other words, Anastrozle will take me right up to beginning of PCT and Aromasin will take me right through PCT.

This is all assuming I did the math right if you scroll above and look at my original question where I calculated out all the pills to figure out how many week supply I had.

Reminder, today I'm starting week 2 of 10. So 9 more weeks on cycle with last injection on a wednesday of the 10th week 14 days puts my PCT start date on Wednesday of week 12 and assume 20 days of PCT (we can talk more about that later).

 

[ELicit23]

So I'm hearing what you all are telling me. Basically this is what I'm hearing - get mid-cycle blood work and adjust. So you all aren't helping me at all with my question about the two options.

First, I thought the two options I laid out above were standard AI dosing and then men adjust from there? i.e. 0.5mg Anastrozle eod or 12.5mg Aromasin eod. Can you at least confirm those are right? one or the other not both at the same time, obvously...

Second, you all didn't help me out on which course of drugs to take. Do I start today with the Anastrozle that will run me 11.4 weeks (assuming my dosing above is right) Or do I start today with the Aromasin that will run me 17 weeks (assuming above dosing is right)? In other words, Anastrozle will take me right up to beginning of PCT and Aromasin will take me right through PCT.

This is all assuming I did the math right if you scroll above and look at my original question where I calculated out all the pills to figure out how many week supply I had.

Reminder, today I'm starting week 2 of 10. So 9 more weeks on cycle with last injection on a wednesday of the 10th week 14 days puts my PCT start date on Wednesday of week 12 and assume 20 days of PCT (we can talk more about that later).

The thing is, there is a "standard" dose and there is a dose tailored to what works for YOU. I feel shitty on .50 EOD...why?, Idk, who fucking knows? I feel great on .30 EOD, I even do .15ED and I feel fine. What is your question again about the compounds? I'm gonna make it easy for you.

Start off with standard dose. Look at the side effects of low and high estra. Go off of that and adjust. BUY MORE MERHANDISE. Always add 1 more of the most important things you need. I always buy one more test that needed and one more AI. RUI Adex is great for the quantity and price. Bro, it's not so complicated, go with how you look and feel.

 

[Roush]

First, I thought the two options I laid out above were standard AI dosing and then men adjust from there? i.e. 0.5mg Anastrozle eod or 12.5mg Aromasin eod.

Aromasin has a short half life and should be dosed daily . I would just go with Anastrozole/Adex and dose it at 0.25 mg Eod as a starting point and adjust from there after bloods

 

[ELicit23]

And if you live in a state where you can get bloodwork, get it and go by that. It's fucking hard as balls for me to get hormone panels here in NY... I have to go to CT to get it

 

[texas.redneck]

Aromasin has a short half life and should be dosed daily . I would just go with Anastrozole/Adex and dose it at 0.25 mg Eod as a starting point and adjust from there after bloods

Thanks!
Primarily what i was getting at was should I go with the product that I have enough supply to get me only up till i start pct or the procuct I have enough supply to take me all the way thru pct? Sorry i convulated the question and sent us all on a "dosing" rabbit trail although thanks for the feedback about starting on 0.25 anastrozle eod instead of 0.5. That actually would make the anastrozle last all the way thru pct...

 

[texas.redneck]

Other relevant cycle stats:

1. I started with my trainer and chiro about a month ago really prepping my body for this with mobility core and conditioning work.

2. Bmi was 13% day i started cycle and weight was 190 (my other lifting stats are in first thread)

3.. Started joint and liver support a month ago

4. Got prescription for propecia just for kicks because I had already been thinking about it and saw how steroids can accelerate my male pattern balding. Started couple weeks precycle

 

[tbonexl]

You really need to read up on the ology faq's thread. You don't run ai through pct. There's some fundamentals you are lacking. It's a long thread but packed with nothing but useful info on stuff you need to know before running gear...

 

[texas.redneck]

You really need to read up on the ology faq's thread. You don't run ai through pct. There's some fundamentals you are lacking. It's a long thread but packed with nothing but useful info on stuff you need to know before running gear...

I've been reading every article I can find on steroid cycles for the last two months. Most of the things I'm asking about now are fine tuning my cycle and issues with differing points of view on the web, like running ai's thru pct or not. I've seen both. Or like running HCG the entire cycle versus last 4 weeks versus mid cycle on longer cycles. That's not set in stone either from what I read.

It's just that some of the "moderators" and "veterans" have some pretty strong opinions and they are like "THIS IS THE WAY YOU DO IT GODDAMN NEWBIES". Where as others, equally experienced veterans, are a little more realistic and give you a few ideas and options to think about. Unfortunately, when you get on these forums they are usually dominated by the former individuals and they crowd out some of the more realistic veterans. Most of the latter guys don't live on these boards anyways because they have a life so it's hard to find one to get solid down to earth advice.

 

[halfwit]

Other relevant cycle stats:

1. I started with my trainer and chiro about a month ago really prepping my body for this with mobility core and conditioning work.

2. Bmi was 13% day i started cycle and weight was 190 (my other lifting stats are in first thread)

3.. Started joint and liver support a month ago

4. Got prescription for propecia just for kicks because I had already been thinking about it and saw how steroids can accelerate my male pattern balding. Started couple weeks precycle

FYI: Propecia (androgen blocker) can cause you to develop low testosterone over time, and may not be reversible. Just some food for thought.








Yes, so can recreational use of AAS...