Thoughts from a conversation...

cashout

New member
After my workout today, a guy approached me and asked the regular assortment of questions that I get when I train in a public gym. I am use to that and I have come to expect it. I look at it as another “teaching opportunity.”

Now, I’ll spare you all the details of the first 30 minutes of our conversation. What struck me about this guy, who is 37 years old, 5’10” and by his own admission 232 pounds and in terrible shape, was his off the cuff comment “I tried testosterone therapy but it didn’t work.”

I asked him about this and he told me “I did the shots and everything and it didn’t do me any good at all.” He then went on to say “For 9 months I did it and I didn’t feel one bit different and I didn’t lose any weight either.” He told me how he started with gel and moved to test shots and so on and so on. After quite a lot of detail about his various protocols and lack of progress, I got a moment to change subjects on the guy while he caught his breath.

So, I asked about his diet. After quite a long and painful Q&A session on my part, I eventually got to the heart of the matter – he never bothered to change his diet at all. In fact, it may have even gotten worse from what I gathered from his descriptions of his eating habits!

So, as I drove back to the house, I thought about this guy and what I learned from listening to him and his experiences with HRT. He did make a point very clear for me and it is one that I’ve often wondered about with some guys on this forum.

Excuse me while I editorialize for a moment. I’ve been an active participant in this forum now for almost a year and a half. In that time, I’ve noticed something that I feel is worth discussing in depth.

There are a number of guys who come and go here and most of the time the discussions revolve around “fine tuning” their respective protocols. How much test? How often? What AI? How much AI? When to take my AI? How much HCG? When t o take HCG? The list goes on and on.

To me, it seems that so many guys are focus on the secondary details as opposed to fixing the big picture issue first. To me, the first thing that should be remedied is DIET. Even some of the vets here will openly admit their diets woefully inadequate and in the same breath, they will get into a “hair splitting” discussion about injecting every 4 days or every 5 days.

It seems that there is a “cart in front of horse” mentality.

First and foremost, HRT will pay huge dividends for those of us in need BUT we must put our respective houses in order from the ground up if we expect to maximize the benefits of the process.

So, I’d humble suggest that when you adopting your HRT protocol, you adopt a comprehensive diet plan as well. Not something you got out of a magazine or saw while watching and infomercial but a lifestyle change that you can support for the long term and will help you recognize the goals you set for yourself via HRT in a much more expeditious fashion.

There are guys around here who do this sort of thing and seem to be very good at it – 3J. I understand the cost is very reasonable but I can tell you the progress you will make with your HRT will be dramatically amplified if you can address the weakness in your nutritional foundation.

So, I would suggest that if any of you haven’t done so already, commit yourself to a lifestyle change in your diet. There is no reason for anyone to be running around with a double digit body fat.

Now, I can write the next sentence from a totally objective and independent point-of-view because I don't have an invested interested in either one of these guys and their work.

With Chip and 3J the tools are at your disposal to make the most of your efforts.

It's like compounding interest when you put them together!
 
Excellent post Cashout. For me it was the opposite. My diet improved tremendously when I started my HRT and I think that's one of the reasons I'm seeing the benefits. You'll find that the food you eat has a direct correlation with mental capacity and energy levels. If you eat like crap, you will feel like crap.
 
Very nice post cash. 3J has a saying that it's 80% diet, 15% training and 5% test/gear. I believe this to be very accurate. The reason why some don't see the changes they are hoping for is exactly what you said. The only lifestyle change they made was testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). No change in diet and probably no change in their training. Their are several members here who are obviously on the right track with their diet and training combined with a Maximus protocol and they should be used as a template for other's success. 3J is incredibly reasonable with pricing and is still offering a discount for Maximus clients I believe (have not verified this). Even without the discount the cost is minor. I know some are on a very strict budget and don't think they can afford nutrition counseling, but I think you may be surprised that you could actuall save money by preparing your own food and shopping smarter. 3J is an outstanding resource and should be used. Again, great post cash.
 
Great post CashOut.

I sort of agree. I mean I totally agree with everything that you said, and everybody should eat healthy.

So let me talk about myself. I have muscle definition, I have no idea what my BF is. I could deffinetly lose 30 lbs and look great. My T was low, my BF went through the roof over the last 6 months. My diet didn't change. I was in a spiraling circle downwards FAST. I felt like everything was just crashing hard. I had no interest in getting out of bed, going to work, or doing anything. For me this was all new, as I'm naturally pretty energetic. Now I'm on day 17. I started working out last week, because I could. I'm starting to see that maybe a diet of nutrition would be a good thing, only if I could find foods that I like. And to me there is no such thing as a cheating diet. If my diet improves, it's because I want it to. I'm not out to impress anybody, but I see it like working out. I will do some, especially if I give it a try, and notice improvements in well being. Will I ever give up an occasional Chicken Alfredo, probably not.

A really do agree that there is no magic bullet. I think that you can get out, what you put in. And I'm personally putting in more. Mostly because I don't ever want to crash again.

Oh and when my T was low, it took something like Chicken Alfredo to look forward to getting out of bed. Ironic, I know.
 
Very nice post cash. 3J has a saying that it's 80% diet, 15% training and 5% test/gear. I believe this to be very accurate. The reason why some don't see the changes they are hoping for is exactly what you said. The only lifestyle change they made was testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). No change in diet and probably no change in their training. Their are several members here who are obviously on the right track with their diet and training combined with a Maximus protocol and they should be used as a template for other's success. 3J is incredibly reasonable with pricing and is still offering a discount for Maximus clients I believe (have not verified this). Even without the discount the cost is minor. I know some are on a very strict budget and don't think they can afford nutrition counseling, but I think you may be surprised that you could actuall save money by preparing your own food and shopping smarter. 3J is an outstanding resource and should be used. Again, great post cash.

I agree with everything you said except test is 5%. I'm calling BS on that one. So diet is 16X more important than balanced hormones. Dream on. Take the challenge yourself. Get off of HRT, let your hormones go to hell, and continue everything else. Lets see what a crash does to you.

I just can't seem to say that nicely. I really mean no offense. And will probably go with 3J in the future, as I know that he can help the situation. Just not by 16X
 
I agree with everything you said except test is 5%. I'm calling BS on that one. So diet is 16X more important than balanced hormones. Dream on. Take the challenge yourself. Get off of HRT, let your hormones go to hell, and continue everything else. Lets see what a crash does to you.

I just can't seem to say that nicely. I really mean no offense. And will probably go with 3J in the future, as I know that he can help the situation. Just not by 16X

No offense taken frustrated. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and yours and everyone's is certainly always welcome. But I probably misspoke/misled a little bit. I believe 3J's quote is more geared towards guys who cycle, not HRT/TRT. Probably should have made that clearer. Very sorry. You are absolutely correct in saying that if a hormone crash happens your diet wouldn't be able to help 16x as much as a proper protocol. Hopefully I said that right:). I do believe diet plays a critical part in HRT/TRT and is just as important as the protocol.
 
A lot of guys forget about fiber also, its huge especially for anyone over 30.
It does take a while to get used to the taste that comes a long with adding 30g of fiber a day.
Natural, organic, rarely eat red meat, alkaline foods vs. acidic when its convienent, thats whats worked for me... in addition to the basics.
 
I agree with everything you said except test is 5%. I'm calling BS on that one. So diet is 16X more important than balanced hormones. Dream on. Take the challenge yourself. Get off of HRT, let your hormones go to hell, and continue everything else. Lets see what a crash does to you.

I just can't seem to say that nicely. I really mean no offense. And will probably go with 3J in the future, as I know that he can help the situation. Just not by 16X

I believe 3J is specifically referring to Gear and NOT HRT. In the world of Gear 5% makes sense. In the world of HRT most of us would never make it to the gym or eat clean without properly balanced hormones.

So, as I am on HRT, my ratio is actually 80% diet, 20% training.
 
I believe 3J is specifically referring to Gear and NOT HRT. In the world of Gear 5% makes sense. In the world of HRT most of us would never make it to the gym or eat clean without properly balanced hormones.

So, as I am on HRT, my ratio is actually 80% diet, 20% training.

Holler :mexican:
 
I could have been on any other forum and got the shit beat out of me for what I was thinking or feeling. Not here. You guys are great. I really mean it.

Thanks for the post CashOut
 
A lot of guys forget about fiber also, its huge especially for anyone over 30.
It does take a while to get used to the taste that comes a long with adding 30g of fiber a day.
Natural, organic, rarely eat red meat, alkaline foods vs. acidic when its convienent, thats whats worked for me... in addition to the basics.

Hey!

OK, yeah you're right. I'm 42 and the extra fiber goes great with the additional protein.

Excellent thread to the OP. Proper nutrition makes all the difference in the world. It's funny how quickly a change can make itself visible. Two weeks ago I was down waaaaaay too much pasta trying to up my carbs. I researched some of the meal plans here and now my diet is more sensible. So... thanks everyone!
 
I believe 3J is specifically referring to Gear and NOT HRT. In the world of Gear 5% makes sense. In the world of HRT most of us would never make it to the gym or eat clean without properly balanced hormones.

So, as I am on HRT, my ratio is actually 80% diet, 20% training.

i'd say your correct on that one :D

look the big picture of that quote it to teach people that NOTHING is more important then your diet..

obviously if you take training away you wont grow, but you'll still be healthy because your eating a balanced diet..

.. also let me add that those who are past their genetic potential will need to rely on gear heavier then those who arn't.. but still diet is the major role..

so yea crashed hormones will make it very difficult to progress.. i do agree with that
 
and i wanna thank everyone for the kind words.. i love my job.. and when you love your job you never work a day in your life!!!!
 
Good post. I tell people this all the time when ask about my & my wife's weight loss success. Its not so much about the workout as it is what you do in the kitchen. I dropped 90ibs with sorry hormones, now the last 35 is being a bastard, but Im on the right track with HRT.
 
Good post. I tell people this all the time when ask about my & my wife's weight loss success. Its not so much about the workout as it is what you do in the kitchen. I dropped 90ibs with sorry hormones, now the last 35 is being a bastard, but Im on the right track with HRT.

stick with it brother, you'll get there.
 
I have a question my diet is pretty good a little treat here and there but my big question is I work out at 4:30am so I get up have a protein shake and go to the gym 20min of cardio and lift for 40-60 min I then come home shower get ready for work I have another shake with oat meal in it and 5 egg whites and one hole and a piece of fruit HOW BAD ARE ALL THESE PROTEIN DRINKS FOR YOU
 
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