Tired of losing everything I gain. Question about HRT

[anzel]

Couldnt get to my computer for a couple days and I came back to this!! Wow.

My PCT,sleep and diet were always great. I checked and rechecked my PCT with members on this board, even chatted with DET a few times. Also had shit tons of help from 3 J. His diet advice was key to some small gains I attained naturally! I still follow his diet advice 5 years later and have only perfected it. Wrote down everything I ate and tweaked till no tomorrow. My training was mostly 5 x 5 which is my best suit. I even had a trainer and help from a nutritionist at the gym.

During PCT I ate very well and clean. Didnt drink a drop of alchohol , no caffenine and took all my vitamins.

Bottom line is by a year later I had slowly lost a lot of my gains. Now mind you my first blood work I got was 5 yrs ago and it was lower than the 356 I recently had , i think about 280 or so. Since then I have done 1 cycle a year.

Besides the lost gains as I hit 40 I also feel like I have lost energy and sex drive and my memory isnt as sharp. I squat, dead lift, bench and work hard and eat really healthy but the gains are just not coming like they used to....... Sounds like low T to me.

I am researching my options and going to a Dr. or online pharm seems like the best option for me. A nice treatment dose that will bring my T levels up to where all my hard work and good eating will actually show a little.

So my question was just to get the ball rolling and maybe get some idea of what testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is like. If testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) can get my levels up to 800 or so I think I may be alright.

If you are on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) then you are there for life. Is it common to Blast and cruise on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? Or is it better to just stay away from the blasting once you start TRT?

 

[halfwit]

Couldnt get to my computer for a couple days and I came back to this!! Wow.

My PCT,sleep and diet were always great. I checked and rechecked my PCT with members on this board, even chatted with DET a few times. Also had shit tons of help from 3 J. His diet advice was key to some small gains I attained naturally! I still follow his diet advice 5 years later and have only perfected it. Wrote down everything I ate and tweaked till no tomorrow. My training was mostly 5 x 5 which is my best suit. I even had a trainer and help from a nutritionist at the gym.

During PCT I ate very well and clean. Didnt drink a drop of alchohol , no caffenine and took all my vitamins.

Bottom line is by a year later I had slowly lost a lot of my gains. Now mind you my first blood work I got was 5 yrs ago and it was lower than the 356 I recently had , i think about 280 or so. Since then I have done 1 cycle a year.

Besides the lost gains as I hit 40 I also feel like I have lost energy and sex drive and my memory isnt as sharp. I squat, dead lift, bench and work hard and eat really healthy but the gains are just not coming like they used to....... Sounds like low T to me.

I am researching my options and going to a Dr. or online pharm seems like the best option for me. A nice treatment dose that will bring my T levels up to where all my hard work and good eating will actually show a little.

So my question was just to get the ball rolling and maybe get some idea of what testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is like. If testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) can get my levels up to 800 or so I think I may be alright.

If you are on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) then you are there for life. Is it common to Blast and cruise on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? Or is it better to just stay away from the blasting once you start TRT?

Reaching levels of 800ng/dL is dependent on not only your body, but your doctor's willingness to work with you. I am personally allowed to go up to the top of the range (1197ng/dL) as long as I don't go over, which can get him in trouble - causing him to lower my script. Answering your question about blasting/cruising here is a somewhat loaded question as we try to avoid any non-prescribed talk about AAS in the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) section. I can say that if you venture over to the AAS section, you'll find the answers you seek to that part.

I do think testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is a definite option for you as you sound like you're suffering from the ill effects of having a testosterone deficiency. IMT would be my first choice for online as I am always reading about guys that have received proper care and great protocols from them.

My .02c

 

[anzel]

Thank you!

 

[totalburnout]

See, does your argument here say that there is a dramatic loss of muscle over a short period. No, what you are saying is that it is based on a lifestyle. My lifestyle was the same it was when I had great T levels, yet they diminished. And trust me, it didn't take years. No shit it is dependent on how low the T is. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. However, if a guy is suffering from low T with negative symptoms, I can say that he will be losing muscle mass. Period.



Again, contradictions from you. I am seriously done arguing with you. Your last post about "rep schemes" made you look like a jack ass already. Besides, everyone here pretty much has the same opinion on you as I do. Remember the saying....."never argue with an idiot.......they bring you down to their level and beat you on experience."

Good fucking god. You are absolutely right. It's frustrating to argue with someone who is clearly too stupid to understand basic concepts.

There are NO contradictions. Read ALL of my posts. I'm sorry I was more specific in some and I disclosed that my viewpoint is that simply having low T does not automatically mean you'll lose mass. AND it doesn't. Muscle hypertrophy is a SYMPTOM. There's a correlation between the two that I've never denied. I'm saying there's a CORRELATION not necessarily a 1 to 1 relationship. Correlation va causation.

Further, how do I know YOU ARE OVER YOUR FUCKING HEAD? Simple, you again drew an incorrect conclusion that strength = muscle gain. There's certainly a relationship but again there is a correlation vs a cause. Want a real simple example? Look at any sport that involves weight classes. Athletes increase strength while staying within the same weight range. Your bench going up doesn't infer that your body weight will go up.

I'm sorry people don't want to hear the cold hard truth about certain things. There are absolutely ways to preserve muscle mass and that was my entire point all along. Instead, people want to ride in on their high horses, stick their fingers in their ears and go la la la, there's no way you can't lose muscle when you have low T!

Wrong. I'm one example. I can provide you probably 20 examples of UFC fighters that now have testosterone in the low end of the range and still carry significant muscle and compete with the most elite athletes in their sport.

Anyone that can honestly look in the mirror and dispute my reasoning after reading this - is simply not being honest or simply isn't intelligent.

If you'd like me to say outright that I believe that low T contributes to muscle loss for most people, I absolutely believe that. I also believe that people can control a whole host of other factors and that there doesn't necessarily have to be a reduction in mass - certainly not over a short time horizon. Any loss would obviously increase over a longer time horizon.

What that doesn't mean is that someone with a 400 T count, automatically can't maintain muscle mass. Do you understand how crazy that is, when if you tested a large portion of the population, many would fall in that bucket and they're not walking around everyday saying OMG I'm wasting away.

Unless people want to be more reasonable and accept there's an alternative to what they feel is an absolute than I'm through arguing.

 

[totalburnout]

Couldnt get to my computer for a couple days and I came back to this!! Wow.

My post cycle therapy (pct),sleep and diet were always great. I checked and rechecked my post cycle therapy (pct) with members on this board, even chatted with DET a few times. Also had shit tons of help from 3 J. His diet advice was key to some small gains I attained naturally! I still follow his diet advice 5 years later and have only perfected it. Wrote down everything I ate and tweaked till no tomorrow. My training was mostly 5 x 5 which is my best suit. I even had a trainer and help from a nutritionist at the gym.

During post cycle therapy (pct) I ate very well and clean. Didnt drink a drop of alchohol , no caffenine and took all my vitamins.

Bottom line is by a year later I had slowly lost a lot of my gains. Now mind you my first blood work I got was 5 yrs ago and it was lower than the 356 I recently had , i think about 280 or so. Since then I have done 1 cycle a year.

Besides the lost gains as I hit 40 I also feel like I have lost energy and sex drive and my memory isnt as sharp. I squat, dead lift, bench and work hard and eat really healthy but the gains are just not coming like they used to....... Sounds like low T to me.

I am researching my options and going to a Dr. or online pharm seems like the best option for me. A nice treatment dose that will bring my T levels up to where all my hard work and good eating will actually show a little.

So my question was just to get the ball rolling and maybe get some idea of what testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is like. If testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) can get my levels up to 800 or so I think I may be alright.

If you are on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) then you are there for life. Is it common to Blast and cruise on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? Or is it better to just stay away from the blasting once you start TRT?

To address your situation, I think much of your damage is probably self inflicted or related to the aging process. That won't exclude you from benefiting from testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). At this point an online lab certainly will write a script while it'll be hit or miss with an in person physician.

You're going to have less oversight with the online clinic and be able to do more of what you're interested.

I'm not flaming you in any of my posts, I'm flaming the idea that testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is for body building purposes. It's a serious condition that naturally effects many and I don't think the legitimacy of the treatment should be diminished by bullshit cases. That will only set back future treatment options for males if the treatment isn't looked upon as a legitimate medical treatment.

I'd advise anyone who is thinking of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to at least attempt a restart before making the final decision to be on a life long treatment.

 

[Megatron28]

I'd advise anyone who is thinking of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to at least attempt a restart before making the final decision to be on a life long treatment.

When you say "anyone" are you including men with primary hypogonadism?

 

[totalburnout]

When you say "anyone" are you including men with primary hypogonadism?

Whether they've been diagnosed primary or secondary is an issue to look at but I believe there to be a significant number of misdiagnosed cases out there (as everyone on these forums loves to point out that doctors are not perfect and do not always get the diagnosis correct).

With that said, if there's significant proof pointing in one direction or another, you have to look at that evidence but my personal feeling is that I rather perform a clomid test and physically confirm I'm unresponsive before I jump to the needle.

I allowed a doctor to push me the other direction and now I don't have the knowledge of whether I'm truly primary or secondary. Now I have to work backwards, potentially go from feeling great to feeling poor again, just to find out what a doctor never tested/attempted before I commit to a life of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).

At this point, down to the plastics we eat from and the lifestyles we live, there's probably a hundred different contributing factors to low T that just are not understood at this point.

 

[Megatron28]

Whether they've been diagnosed primary or secondary is an issue to look at but I believe there to be a significant number of misdiagnosed cases out there (as everyone on these forums loves to point out that doctors are not perfect and do not always get the diagnosis correct).

With that said, if there's significant proof pointing in one direction or another, you have to look at that evidence but my personal feeling is that I rather perform a clomid test and physically confirm I'm unresponsive before I jump to the needle.

I allowed a doctor to push me the other direction and now I don't have the knowledge of whether I'm truly primary or secondary. Now I have to work backwards, potentially go from feeling great to feeling poor again, just to find out what a doctor never tested/attempted before I commit to a life of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).

At this point, down to the plastics we eat from and the lifestyles we live, there's probably a hundred different contributing factors to low T that just are not understood at this point.

Are you aware that there are blood tests that can be performed and interpretted to determine if someone has primary or secondary hypogonadism? The results are often unambiguous. Using these tests to detect what type of hypogonadism one has can save a lot of time and expense. This allows a guy who needs testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) the benefit of starting sooner. Plus, clomid comes with some risks that should be considered before hopping on it -- especially if the likelihood of it helping is zero when you have primary hypogonadism. You may want to reconsider your blanket recommendation that every guy considering testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) automatically hop on clomid first.

 

[totalburnout]

Are you aware that there are blood tests that can be performed and interpretted to determine if someone has primary or secondary hypogonadism? The results are often unambiguous. Using these tests to detect what type of hypogonadism one has can save a lot of time and expense. This allows a guy who needs testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) the benefit of starting sooner. Plus, clomid comes with some risks that should be considered before hopping on it -- especially if the likelihood of it helping is zero when you have primary hypogonadism. You may want to reconsider your blanket recommendation that every guy considering testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) automatically hop on clomid first.

Are you truly going to take issue and not make an argument against clomid? One of the mildest drugs that does actually have long term studies in place?

You're going to compare the cost of clomid which is dirt cheap to the cost of bloodwork?

It's fairly safe to say that unless the blood tests have already been performed, you learn just as much if not more by performing a 'clomid test' to determine if its primary or secondary.

Again if you know with certainty that you won't respond to clomid then go ahead and perform the next step but its cheap, safe insurance to at least try clomid. You're talking about faster relief? We're talking about a few weeks difference and the chance to find out truly if you have an issue with your gonads or with the HPTA.

You're absolutely correct that there are downsides to clomid but there's a ton of data and users since the 1950's that have been the guniea pigs for us. Id argue there's far more unknown risk with AI's and hCG than there is with clomid. Would you disagree?

There will always be exceptions, so you're right, someone who would like to nit pick, will be able to find an issue with a blanket statement. I'd give clomid the head nod for the vast vast majority of people. Many doctors do as well. I'm sure DET will tell me I'm absolutely wrong but many doctors would agree that they prefer to run clomid and have a definitive answer rather than just interpreting labs.

Please keep in mind, if you're searching for exceptions, I could blow up every post where people recommend a blanket of T, hCG and anastrozole or a 3.5 day injection schedule or a hCG/clomid/Nolva/aromasin post cycle therapy (pct). There's always going to be people that fall outside of those exceptions. Diagnosing anything online is pretty risky and irresponsible, if the person doesn't follow up and confirm those recommendations make sense for them personally.

 

[Megatron28]

I don't think the whole population of men with primary hypogonadism is made up of a "few exceptions." Why would you give a medication that has certain risks to men when you know it won't do anything for them? Seems like a poor practice at best and perhaps even unethical at worst.

 

[totalburnout]

I don't think the whole population of men with primary hypogonadism is made up of a "few exceptions." Why would you give a medication that has certain risks to men when you know it won't do anything for them? Seems like a poor practice at best and perhaps even unethical at worst.

Again, who and how was the primary hypogonadism diagnosed?

Why is it that everyone on this forum believes that doctors are a bunch of schmucks that can't seem to get testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) right but when it suites their argument, they default to how bullet proof doctors are?

What exactly in a persons labs would give you the information that they're 100% certainty that they're primary? Are
You suggesting that this diagnosis is made after having an in range LH and FSH reading? Or is this at the point that you've performed a MRI and have concluded there's no tumor or that the tumor isn't effecting the signal from the HPTA?

We're all well aware that there's extenuating circumstances that will lead to symptoms even when results are within normally accepted ranges.

I'll kick your argument back at you. I'd call it criminal and malpractice to not fully explore secondary hypogonadism and ruling it out as a cause. The same can be said about primary hypogonadism. If you're doctor is being thorough, both possibilities should be considered and successfully ruled out BEFORE deciding to undergo a life long hormone regimen.

I know testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) has worked great for some of us, so we want to think its the answer but the reality is I wouldn't wish this on anyone and I would much prefer to be natural. I can guarantee you that long term issues will eventually develop. 'For every action there's a reaction.' There will always be side effedrs but you can only work with the info we have currently and decide the best course of treatment from there.

Again, personally from all my research, clomid is a very long risk drug. Inexpensive. No known 'harsh' side effects. No known significant long term side effects. It's administered over a short period of time. That's about as low risk as you're going to get - and it can help give a more conclusive action. Again, there's a reason why so many doctors use it when determining primary or secondary. My doctor included.

 

[halfwit]

Here's my question for you totalburnout: If a person has a healthy LH/FSH value on a blood test, yet a serum testosterone of say 100ng/dL - what exactly is clomid supposed to do for them? Please enlighten us. Yes, we know that hypgogonadism can be caused by the adrenals/hypothalamus/pituitary and many other glands higher up in the food chain - but seriously, if a drug that stimulates the release of LH is introduced to a person that has a healthy LH signal from the pituitary gland, what are they to expect? (Clomid tricks the body into thinking it has low estrogen, causing a release of more LH if you didn't know.)

 

[Megatron28]

You can determine through labs if someone has primary hypogonadism. Study up and you can learn how to do it. As for clomid, why would you give a medication that has 0% chance of working with the following risk per the FDA? Let's say a person lost both testicles in a skiing accident and is considering testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Would you really tell him to try clomid first just to be sure? I think clomid is worth the risk if it has a chance of working. But not when it is guaranteed 0% chance.

Visual Symptoms

Patients should be advised that blurring or other visual symptoms such as spots or flashes (scintillating scotomata) may occasionally occur during therapy with Clomid. These visual symptoms increase in incidence with increasing total dose or therapy duration. These visual disturbances are usually reversible; however, cases of prolonged visual disturbance have been reported with some occurring after Clomid discontinuation. The visual disturbances may be irreversible, especially with increased dosage or duration of therapy. Patients should be warned that these visual symptoms may render such activities as driving a car or operating machinery more hazardous than usual, particularly under conditions of variable lighting.
These visual symptoms appear to be due to intensification and prolongation of afterimages. Symptoms often first appear or are accentuated with exposure to a brightly lit environment. While measured visual acuity usually has not been affected, a study patient taking 200 mg Clomid daily developed visual blurring on the 7th day of treatment, which progressed to severe diminution of visual acuity by the 10th day. No other abnormality was found, and the visual acuity returned to normal on the 3rd day after treatment was stopped.
Ophthalmologically definable scotomata and retinal cell function (electroretinographic) changes have also been reported. A patient treated during clinical studies developed phosphenes and scotomata during prolonged Clomid administration, which disappeared by the 32nd day after stopping therapy.
Postmarketing surveillance of adverse events has also revealed other visual signs and symptoms during Clomid therapy (see ADVERSE REACTIONS).
While the etiology of these visual symptoms is not yet understood, patients with any visual symptoms should discontinue treatment and have a complete ophthalmological evaluation carried out promptly.

Everything is binary with you. Yes or no. There are lots oif bad doctors out there when it comes to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) unfortunately. But that doesn't mean they are all bad. Therr are many really good doctors. And even bad doctors may be able to make the diagnosis properly but they may nit be up to date on current treatment protocols. Again, not either all bad or all good. Not binary.

C'mon! Think McFly. 8-P

 

[totalburnout]

You can determine through labs if someone has primary hypogonadism. Study up and you can learn how to do it. As for clomid, why would you give a medication that has 0% chance of working with the following risk per the FDA? Let's say a person lost both testicles in a skiing accident and is considering testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Would you really tell him to try clomid first just to be sure? I think clomid is worth the risk if it has a chance of working. But not when it is guaranteed 0% chance.

Again, if you know without a shadow of a doubt than sure skip that step. A skiing accident, a patient that just had trauma directly to the testicles, someone who has a long history of testicular issues.

Very very different from the situation that most of you are thinking of.

Halfwit bit right into my argument. A healthy LH range does not mean a patient is absolutely a non responder and is absolutely primary. Most at this point believe there's a good degree of overlap and you can be a blend. And come on, I baited him into that argument because I know everyone is quick to jump the gun to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Bloodwork IS A SNAPSHOT in time. If we 'have to look at the symptoms of low T' and not just the labs ranges why then would you think that another test like LH would not need to be interpretted further?

So yes in halfwit's example, I'd give that person clomid to see how they responded - unless they had any of the above situations. (I.e. basically they're lacking testicles or had a known trauma)

 

[riprockwell]

Damn TB, I seriously wonder if your asshole ever gets jealous of all the shit that comes out of your mouth........

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Damn TB, I seriously wonder if your asshole ever gets jealous of all the shit that comes out of your mouth........

 

[totalburnout]

Damn TB, I seriously wonder if your asshole ever gets jealous of all the shit that comes out of your mouth........

Ill give credit where credit is due. That's the best thing you've said in this entire thread and was actually a chuckle worthy burn.

With that said, stick to stuff you don't know, it's more fun to see you squirm for a witty response than it is to see you actually get the pay off when you come up with one witty response.

In recent news, in addition to my Wendler 5/3/1 program I also completed a 6x6 today. OMG IM GOING TO GET HUGE BECAUSE A 5X5 = Strength AND STRENGTH = MUSCLE MASS and 6x6 IS ONE MORE SET AND ONE MORE REP THAN 5x5!!!

(No but seriously I really did complete a 6x6 back squat, 5/3/1 SOHP, and 1x4 deadlift in my WOD today. I'll have to check if my scale weight has already increased)

 

[halfwit]

Again, if you know without a shadow of a doubt than sure skip that step. A skiing accident, a patient that just had trauma directly to the testicles, someone who has a long history of testicular issues.

Very very different from the situation that most of you are thinking of.

Halfwit bit right into my argument. A healthy LH range does not mean a patient is absolutely a non responder and is absolutely primary. Most at this point believe there's a good degree of overlap and you can be a blend. And come on, I baited him into that argument because I know everyone is quick to jump the gun to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Bloodwork IS A SNAPSHOT in time. If we 'have to look at the symptoms of low T' and not just the labs ranges why then would you think that another test like LH would not need to be interpretted further?

So yes in halfwit's example, I'd give that person clomid to see how they responded - unless they had any of the above situations. (I.e. basically they're lacking testicles or had a known trauma)

I fail to see how I was baited. I asked a question which you didn't respond to. I am fully aware that a blood test is a snapshot in time, but LH/FSH don't just drop off the face of the planet overnight or magically reappear. So you're saying that you would expect a person with an LH of say 7mIU/mL and FSH of 9mIU/mL to actually respond to clomid therapy? You would waste a person's time and money just to see if an LH of 25mIU/mL would bring them up from 100ng/dL total test?

Come on man, it's becoming more apparent to everyone here that you have some serious issues with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and are projecting your rage onto others. Look, I don't blame you for what you're going through nor do I think you have to feel the way you do. You come across very argumentative and even condescending in the vast majority of your posts recently. Why is this? Why do you feel you must be the lone voice telling folks to stay away from testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) when all you need to do is mention that they should press their doctor for more testing? None of us want to tell guys that don't need testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to hop on the needle and vial for life - but we also (as testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients) know what life is like without it.

I think you might want to get our estradiol checked out brother. You're coming across a bit more moody lately and I don't think you really can be this angry on your own. Seriously reminds me of my wife right before the rag. No offense intended.

My .02c

 

[riprockwell]

Ill give credit where credit is due. That's the best thing you've said in this entire thread and was actually a chuckle worthy burn.

With that said, stick to stuff you don't know, it's more fun to see you squirm for a witty response than it is to see you actually get the pay off when you come up with one witty response.

In recent news, in addition to my Wendler 5/3/1 program I also completed a 6x6 today. OMG IM GOING TO GET HUGE BECAUSE A 5X5 = Strength AND STRENGTH = MUSCLE MASS and 6x6 IS ONE MORE SET AND ONE MORE REP THAN 5x5!!!

(No but seriously I really did complete a 6x6 back squat, 5/3/1 SOHP, and 1x4 deadlift in my WOD today. I'll have to check if my scale weight has already increased)

Dude I never brought the rep scheme bullshit argument. Your dumb ass did. I said it worked for ME. I even mentioned that if a guy doing higher reps is doing more reps with the same weight that he is getting stronger. You have selective reading and thinking. That's why you dodged Halfwits question. Det Oak has already made you look like a bitch that your titties are against my face right now. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? I wipe my ass with shit sharper than your come backs. You are an idiot if you don't think strength correlates with muscle. Again you take exceptions and make them the rule. That's how you operate. Yet you dodged Halfwits question. I am started to think your initials TB means "Total Bitch."

 

[totalburnout]

Rip - Dumbass I was the person to say that strength correlates with mass. I wasn't the dumb fuck that you were that insinuated that an increase in strength means an increase in mass.

See, that post was wayyyy more humorous to read, as you struggled to give a witty response (your witty response never came, I'm sorry to say but I'll give you a sympathy trophy for trying). Totalburnout is a pun. It started 12 years ago when I was a teenager on a car forum. Get it? I made it sound like I was a stoner but I was actually referring to a car's tires burning out. Okay, in sure even you get the point now.

Halfwit - not sure what question I dodged. I could infer that your argument was going to be that clomid on a person with high normal (or perhaps even normal) LH and FSH readings would be a waste of time. In general, I'd agree but I'd want to confirm that trend with multiple points of reference through multiple blood tests over a period of time - or go the more direct and faster route by trying clomid instead of waiting for 3-6months of bloodwork that will 1) be time consuming 2) be more costly 3) be less definitive.

And no, this condescending asshole personality is all me - especially when people like DET, ripped or Mega are also going to try to get on soap boxes, thud their chest and try to show their dominance. Bullshit. A guy like DET has a lot of knowledge on hormones - far more knowledge overall than myself - but the problem is that he clearly isn't that intelligent and the application of his knowledge is flawed.

I don't blame him, he works for IMT. His job is to sell his product. I'm the guy that's here to call his mass pedaling of his product as a sham and bullshit. Tru testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is applicable to a very select group of patients and shouldn't be promoted as a catch all solution (and isn't prescribed wholesale by actual, respectable doctors).

That's my entire beef with this forum vs MesoRX. With that said, there's a select few knowledgable people on this forum (mainly yourself and DET) that I have learned from, so I continue to frequent, post, learn and give back. I've learned that on here, I have to be an extra large asshole and dish some tough love because no one else will play that role.