Too many sets, not enough sets; which is it?

[putin]

I hear this all the time. "No more than 8sets or you're overtraining, and then you wonder why you're not growing". First, more than 8sets is not overtraining; look up the symptoms of it first and then say you're overtraining. Just because you're not growing dont mean you're overtraining, or doing too many sets. It could be a lot of things.
I say bullshit. You think the guys back in the day did only 8sets per bodypart? Then you're kidding yourself. Even from heavy 8sets all I get is a warmup, especially if the reps are heavy and short. I try and stick to 12-15range.

What is overtraining exactely? I only know of specific muscle overtraining; where one has overworked the muscle too much in a duration of few days that will cause the muscle to be sore for 2months if not more; and the strength will decrease as a result. This can also be scientifically proven, or you can try it yourself if you havent. Do biceps 12 sets everyday for 3days. Depending on the person, you might be prone to overtraining different muscles. I've overtrained my biceps, my forearms AND my rear delts. All the bodyparts that are used in most exercises.

 

[Vennom96]

I personally find that I only grow if I do more sets. For the past year or so, all the reading I do on here suggests to do low volume, 1 or 2 work sets and the like so I sorta went with that for the past year or so and saw minimal results. I stuck with it sorta b/c everything I read says one thing, and so I didn't want to stray away from that.

Everytime I bump up the volume, adding another exercise or another 3 sets or so I find I get much better results. I just started doing this again and I'm finally experiencing more growth again right away.

I notice that when I do/did lower volume, about 6 total sets per muscle, my strength goes up decent, about 5lbs or so each week and I get minimal size gains. I would leave the gym and wouldn't really have that much of a pump and I felt like I coulda did more. Now some will say I didn't work hard enough but I bust my ass in the gym.

So for me personally, a little higher volume/more sets works best for me. That's not to say lower volume doesn't work or is wrong. Everyone's body is different and responds differently.

 

[putin]

Another problem I see with low sets is that the pyramid allows to gradually warm up to the highest weight as to prevent injury. If I only did 6sets per bodypart, heavy, I'd probably have to do 4 warmup sets.

5x5method for example would probably cripple my knees if I did legs or fuck up my shoulders from using so much weight. I begin with high reps and then go down the ladder.

 

[Tryn2]

Intresting note. I believe alot of people these days are promoting low volume heavy work loads. Some of these people are hosses thats for sure. I am currently trying to figure out which works for me. Especially on this site they promote that type of workout. Though on the other hand many people I talk wih swear they do high volume with respect they use heavy weight and good form. I would say the majority of the people I talk with train that way. Their pics back up there work.
On this site it seems a little different. But then again people swear by metal militia, Dc, Westside Barbell and I think they do heavy low volume work.
It would be nice if everyone took the time to put up some picks of themselves and then the workouts they follow and see which one generates the best physiques...
I know this thread is going to get slammed in here thats for sure, what works for one may not the other. But what works for the majority to acheive a "Bodybuilding" Look may differ than what we do to acheive powerlifting look or strength.

The tough pill for me to swallow....

Lift big get big, but Im telling you that has to be relative, most people I see who have a body that is of the "Bodybuilding" type follow heavy higher rep work focusing on the squeeze and pump. They may drop the reps and increase the weight but that is not the majority of their training. So they say.

I also know people are going to chime in with names of low volume high weight lifters or powerlifters who look like bodybuilders or could if they dieted down. Yet I think its less than 50, Im guessin' I think more bodybuilders who train like bodybuilders would be far higher, far.....

Now Im not stepping on toes or think ones right or wrong just adding to the convo so dont get pissed or dismiss this thread if you dont agree.....

 

[Tryn2]

Dayuuum I can feel the tension building when this tread is around for a few dayz. Lol

Oh but for the record Im trying some low volume work and may do the one on the simple WSB thread on here. I work with 2 other guys and I have to get them to agree to one of them to do. Then commit for 3 months and see what happens.

Lift heavy, eat enough and sleep soemhings going to happen. Whats the best way to have that happen the fastest Im yet to know.

 

[GymLift]

I train heavy (for me) and my muscles are definitely shot way before I get to 8 sets. If I did 8 sets, then they would have to be supersets, because I would be unable to sucessfully lift the heavy weight for that many sets.

Training style can also differ based on your goals (e.g. powerlifter vs bodybuilder)

 

[GymLift]

Another problem I see with low sets is that the pyramid allows to gradually warm up to the highest weight as to prevent injury. If I only did 6sets per bodypart, heavy, I'd probably have to do 4 warmup sets.

True warmup sets don't count. And just for clarify, lifting at 80% of your max isn't a warmup.

 

[luquillo78]

I think that a good point of doing low volume is to help the strengh gains, and that's very important for beginners.
Once lifting big weights (example benching at least 130% bodyweight), you can go with the higher reps. That's the explanation given to the low volume advice and sounds reasonable.

 

[pretty ricky]

first off doing 2 or 3 sets all out actually takes 8 sets or more tottaly.you got to warm up.bodybuilders just add therir warmups as actual sets.LOL THATS HILLARIOUS!OH I DID 20 SETS CHEST LAST NIGHT!but how many actually recuped all the muscle fibre your looking for?look at ron coleman think he got density like that in his quads by doing 6 sets of 15 leg press'?not at all he did that by doing all out deep squats!you know 3 sets of 2-4 for all he's got!you keep doing6 sets of 15-20 leg press or leg ext. and i'll do 2 sets of 2-5 deep squats and i'll kill you all day long!

 

[putin]

True warmup sets don't count. And just for clarify, lifting at 80% of your max isn't a warmup.

I was saying that I cant just straight to 80% of my max on lifts or I would injure myself for sure if I didnt do enough sets to warm up.

 

[putin]

first off doing 2 or 3 sets all out actually takes 8 sets or more tottaly.you got to warm up.bodybuilders just add therir warmups as actual sets.LOL THATS HILLARIOUS!OH I DID 20 SETS CHEST LAST NIGHT!but how many actually recuped all the muscle fibre your looking for?look at ron coleman think he got density like that in his quads by doing 6 sets of 15 leg press'?not at all he did that by doing all out deep squats!you know 3 sets of 2-4 for all he's got!you keep doing6 sets of 15-20 leg press or leg ext. and i'll do 2 sets of 2-5 deep squats and i'll kill you all day long!

On the contrary, I heard that the top dont do what you're describing for fear of injury. But ofcourse I've never seen their vids doing full squats either.

 

[pretty ricky]

yeah the stuff in mags and vids is junk.it's made to sell to the masses.you think a guy doing deep squats busting his ballz is gonna sell to the geek doing 15 sets of curls?nope!it takes big weight to get real big.you think ron coleman got to be the biggest guy in the world by doing 15 sets of curls with 20#'s?

 

[pullinbig]

puttin whats the point of this whole thread?

you wanna do high volume then go ahead, no one is stopping you.

 

[jcp2]

I never bought fully into less sets until i started working out with WPO level powerlifters. We probably do 5 working sets of raw chest a week, maybe. Joel Toranzo works up to one heavy set of squats a workout in his raw cycle, and he has a shot to go over a grand this year, a very good shot. This is a guy who hadn't really squatted much if at all in 10 years until the last 1.5-2. I don't know how people do more than 1 maybe 2 real sets of deads. The only thing we may do a few sets to failure on is shirted bench, but that is more technicue than anything.

 

[Vennom96]

I don't know how people do more than 1 maybe 2 real sets of deads.

I'll agree with you on this one. I can do a pretty reasonable amount of sets on most other exercises but 2 heavy sets of deads and I'm pretty much done for. Thats why I usually do deads at the end of my back workout b/c if I did them first I wouldn't have any juice left in me to finish.

 

[pullinbig]

i have been doing singles only on deads for a couple of months now and its working. maybe 1 heavy single or 3-6 singles at a lighter weight. same with my benching.

 

[luquillo78]

I can do a pretty reasonable amount of sets on most other exercises but 2 heavy sets of deads and I'm pretty much done for. Thats why I usually do deads at the end of my back workout b/c if I did them first I wouldn't have any juice left in me to finish.

Same here. Two or maybe 3 sets of deads at the end of back day. If I do it at the beggining. Nothing left after deadlifts.

 

[putin]

puttin whats the point of this whole thread?

you wanna do high volume then go ahead, no one is stopping you.

The point what overtraining really is. But since we're done with that,... yes I am going for high volume low set training. We'll see how that works out.

 

[pullinbig]

The point what overtraining really is. But since we're done with that,... yes I am going for high volume low set training. We'll see how that works out.

post your log in the jouranl section so we can follow your progress. i do a mix of high volume and low volume. read it for your self. my journal has been kept up since feb of this year.