Tren and Collagen Synthesis

[omgmike1]

I am aware from StoneCold's Post that the AAS: Deca, EQ, Anavar, Primo can help build collagen at some superior rates and that stacking these with
high dosages of test (which decreases collagen rate) can actually improve them in terms of strength and repair rate after being broken down.

I've been looking around for Tren and Collagen synthesis. It's hard to find any studies on this compound at all and even so, most of them are geared toward how much size can be put on using it and more about it's special benefit of nutrition partitioning.

I've saw one study on the web, it's not the best, but it's the only one I could find speaking between tren and collagen synthesis.

https://dl.sciencesocieties.org/publications/jas/abstracts/74/8/1777


Steaks from implanted cows compared to controls had (P < .05) more soluble (heat-labile) collagen, a higher percentage of soluble collagen, and improved sensory traits of tenderness (myofibrillar and overall) and connective tissue amount.

2) a 200-mg trenbolone acetate (TBA) implant,
3) a 200-mg testosterone propionate +20 mg estradiol benzoate (TEB) implant,



It does describe more about the texture of the product produced, but at the same time it does mention about the collagen and does say that the cows injected with
tren produced stronger ones than the ones without.


Also, I was thinking since Deca and Tren are both 19 Nors and that they are some what related, that if Deca Inc collagen, then why would tren not do the same or if not to a more greator degree?

The internet has mixed results on this as well, Some posts state from their experience that they feel worse using tren because it gives such rapid strength, but others say that it helped heal some injuries. Mainly speaking more toward tendons.

Does anyone have any input on this or experience first hand?

 

[halfwit]

What you're looking for is actual collagen synthesis in connective tissues, which the study hardly touches on, and it is indeed in cows. I honestly think that the collagen pro-synthesis AAS compounds are vastly overrated, and that the only true way to build connective tissue strength is via one of two methods:

1. Time under tension with adequate rest. If it hurts, don't do it. This means that training with less weight may be necessary. Deloading works wonders too; I try to do that every couple months, and I almost always come back much stronger.

2. HGH. It's the only hormone we know of that absolutely does increase connective tissue strength on top of other great benefits. Of course, this stuff is crazy expensive.

My .02c

 

[omgmike1]

What you're looking for is actual collagen synthesis in connective tissues, which the study hardly touches on, and it is indeed in cows. I honestly think that the collagen pro-synthesis AAS compounds are vastly overrated, and that the only true way to build connective tissue strength is via one of two methods:

1. Time under tension with adequate rest. If it hurts, don't do it. This means that training with less weight may be necessary. Deloading works wonders too; I try to do that every couple months, and I almost always come back much stronger.

2. HGH. It's the only hormone we know of that absolutely does increase connective tissue strength on top of other great benefits. Of course, this stuff is crazy expensive.

My .02c

Yes, it's hard to understand Tren, when there is hardly any studies on it.

I started taking 1g MSM and 500mg Vit C to help with collagen repair.

I know rest is the main thing that fixes it, but taking month of the gym seems to be a huge hit on people who work out and try to gain mass on a weekly basis and I can't imagine how much mass would be lost just sitting around for a month with no gym and shooting something like 500mg test PW at the least..

Do u think collagen and tendons is strained more with heavy-fewer(6-8) reps OR lighter-Higher reps(15-20). I know that deload is going to the gym and doing light weight, but do u think if u had a deload week. Doing light-moderate weights. 20+ reps and u aimed to build muscle, would it still work, as long as ur going to failure? Doing this for the sole purpose to let ur tendons rest and catch up? Thoughts?


PS: about tren too, is that if it makes ur skeletal muscles stronger and ur lifting heavy. Would it in any way take more of the load of weight on the skeletal muscle and off the tendons or joints if you were stronger and doing higher reps? I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this, but it's something I read..

 

[halfwit]

Yes, it's hard to understand Tren, when there is hardly any studies on it.

I started taking 1g MSM and 500mg Vit C to help with collagen repair.

I know rest is the main thing that fixes it, but taking month of the gym seems to be a huge hit on people who work out and try to gain mass on a weekly basis and I can't imagine how much mass would be lost just sitting around for a month with no gym and shooting something like 500mg test PW at the least..

Do u think collagen and tendons is strained more with heavy-fewer(6-8) reps OR lighter-Higher reps(15-20). I know that deload is going to the gym and doing light weight, but do u think if u had a deload week. Doing light-moderate weights. 20+ reps and u aimed to build muscle, would it still work, as long as ur going to failure? Doing this for the sole purpose to let ur tendons rest and catch up? Thoughts?


PS: about tren too, is that if it makes ur skeletal muscles stronger and ur lifting heavy. Would it in any way take more of the load of weight on the skeletal muscle and off the tendons or joints if you were stronger and doing higher reps? I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this, but it's something I read..

Okay, so for example, I've had an ongoing biceps tendon that acts up every so often, and it gets to the point where I know if I push hard - it will strain.

So I've found that I change exercises (heavy hammer curls are a no no during this time) and toss in a deloading week, it gets better. Deloading is the same rep ranges, same exercises, but about half the weight - or just a week off period. Going up in rep ranges still taxes things, which defeats the purpose.

My suggestion to change weight is by lowering say from 285 x10 reps by four sets for bench to say 235 x10 by four sets, but focusing more on the actual movement, and slowing things down a bit. In fact, many appreciate the results of this type of training instead of a higher weight with high volume program. It's not as if you would have bad form with the 285, but that you're not focusing on the pump nearly as much - which is indeed harder on connective tissues.

It's much harder on the joints/ligaments/tendons to go with very heavy weight and less reps. This is why powerlifting guys (like me) tend to move to bodybuilding as we get older, as the body just can't handle the strain indefinitely. High reps (12-20) are better suited for building aerobic capacity, while 8-12 is hypertrophy.

Part of the problem for us (I'm in your boat too) is when you're on year-round is that not only does testosterone decrease collagen synthesis, but as we are constantly at a higher nitrogen retention state, our muscles will ALWAYS grow faster than our connective tissues. GH supplementation is the inevitable route for us eventually, but there are ways to prolong it.

Stretching pre-lift helps enormously. I have spent a fair amount of time looking into ways to improve joint strength, and have incorporated them into my training; much like rotator stretches on chest day with a cable tower, or very light dumbbells on shoulder day. Forced triceps stretches have helped alleviate stress on the tendon in the elbow as well - et cetera.

Tendons are what hold our skeletal muscle to the bones, and allow for movement, ligaments are what hold the bones together, and joints are what allow for specialized movement. Tren doesn't override or change these functions sadly.

Hope that helps.