trenbolone acetate
- Thread starter phoenixphyre
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phoenixphyre
Mrs. Pheezy; mom of Loki
STANG 98 said:Thaks Biggie for taking out the fucking trash! W&Z, you'll ALWAYS be cool in my book!!!
Ditto!!
Geez, when I started this thread, I had no idea that it would escalate into a full-scale war...told you everything Stang and I do start out innocently!!
supergirl
New member
nice little articles
1) Transdermal Delivery Technologies: The Past, the Present, and the Future
by Mahesh Chaubal, PhD, Drugdel.com
http://www.drugdeliverypartnerships.com/trans.html
2) Wade Hull, MS Director of Engineering; ZARS, Inc.
350 W. 800 N., Ste. 320 Salt Lake City, Utah 84103
*This study was sponsored by ZARS, Inc.
Compounds are thought to transfer through the skin by a predictable system of passive diffusion, defined by Fick’s Law and the rate of permeation. The stratum corneum is believed to provide the major physical barrier for most drugs. Diffusion for most low–molecular-weight substances seems to occur uniformly through the stratum corneum over a large fraction of its area.2. Figure 2 shows a diagrammatic illustration of the potential routes of drug entry into the skin. Drug molecules can penetrate the epithelium transcellularly or intercellularly through channels between cells (route 2) or they may gain transappendageal entry through the skin appendages such as hair follicles (route 3), sebaceous glands, and sweat ducts (route 1). Given the small cross sections of the sweat and sebaceous pores along with the outward movement of sweat or sebum, however, the stratum corneum serves as the primary means of drug diffusion. Once diffusion through the stratum corneum is achieved, the molecules permeate the dermis, are absorbed into the capillary plexus, and are then transferred into the general circulation by local blood vessels. If absorbed molecules are able to bypass the dermal blood supply, they can diffuse into the tissue layers below the dermis in a process known as percutaneous penetration.2 Thus, from a physiologic perspective, the appearance of the drug in the systemic circulation is governed by two factors: skin permeability and local blood flow.3
In order for a drug to be a practical candidate for transdermal delivery, it must possess physicochemical properties that are associated with relatively high permeability. These properties include a low–molecular-weight (<1000) and adequate solubility in oil and water. Since steady-state delivery of the drug across a membrane is subject to Fick’s laws of diffusion, the higher the aqueous solubility of a drug, the higher is its delivery rate.4 The drug should also be potent enough to compensate for the limited ability to move a therapeutic dose through a convenient area of skin. In practical terms, this means, for most drugs, a daily dose of 1 to 2 mg. Presently there are several types of drugs that are being delivered transdermally, including testosterone, estrogen, nitroglycerin, nicotine, fentanyl (a potent opioid analgesic), scopolamine (for motion sickness), and clonodine (to lower blood pressure).
3)Langer, R."Perspectives: Drug delivery - drugs on target" , Science;293:58-59,2001
4)http://www.madisondrugs.com/compounding/delivery.html
1) Transdermal Delivery Technologies: The Past, the Present, and the Future
by Mahesh Chaubal, PhD, Drugdel.com
http://www.drugdeliverypartnerships.com/trans.html
2) Wade Hull, MS Director of Engineering; ZARS, Inc.
350 W. 800 N., Ste. 320 Salt Lake City, Utah 84103
*This study was sponsored by ZARS, Inc.
Compounds are thought to transfer through the skin by a predictable system of passive diffusion, defined by Fick’s Law and the rate of permeation. The stratum corneum is believed to provide the major physical barrier for most drugs. Diffusion for most low–molecular-weight substances seems to occur uniformly through the stratum corneum over a large fraction of its area.2. Figure 2 shows a diagrammatic illustration of the potential routes of drug entry into the skin. Drug molecules can penetrate the epithelium transcellularly or intercellularly through channels between cells (route 2) or they may gain transappendageal entry through the skin appendages such as hair follicles (route 3), sebaceous glands, and sweat ducts (route 1). Given the small cross sections of the sweat and sebaceous pores along with the outward movement of sweat or sebum, however, the stratum corneum serves as the primary means of drug diffusion. Once diffusion through the stratum corneum is achieved, the molecules permeate the dermis, are absorbed into the capillary plexus, and are then transferred into the general circulation by local blood vessels. If absorbed molecules are able to bypass the dermal blood supply, they can diffuse into the tissue layers below the dermis in a process known as percutaneous penetration.2 Thus, from a physiologic perspective, the appearance of the drug in the systemic circulation is governed by two factors: skin permeability and local blood flow.3
In order for a drug to be a practical candidate for transdermal delivery, it must possess physicochemical properties that are associated with relatively high permeability. These properties include a low–molecular-weight (<1000) and adequate solubility in oil and water. Since steady-state delivery of the drug across a membrane is subject to Fick’s laws of diffusion, the higher the aqueous solubility of a drug, the higher is its delivery rate.4 The drug should also be potent enough to compensate for the limited ability to move a therapeutic dose through a convenient area of skin. In practical terms, this means, for most drugs, a daily dose of 1 to 2 mg. Presently there are several types of drugs that are being delivered transdermally, including testosterone, estrogen, nitroglycerin, nicotine, fentanyl (a potent opioid analgesic), scopolamine (for motion sickness), and clonodine (to lower blood pressure).
3)Langer, R."Perspectives: Drug delivery - drugs on target" , Science;293:58-59,2001
4)http://www.madisondrugs.com/compounding/delivery.html
supergirl
New member
one more
1) Central Pharmacy:
Well, the advantages of transdermal drug delivery systems speak for themselves and include avoidance of side effects, avoidance of the gastrointestinal tract and hepatic first-pass biotransformation and metabolism, control of absorption, availability of multiple skin sites to avoid local irritation and toxicity, and improved compliance. The result is a wider range of therapeutic options for physicians to use in optimizing their patients care.
2) the best for last....
DO TRANSDERMAL NSAIDS WORK?
Absolutely! Transdermal NSAIDs are both effective and safe. A meta-analysis of 86 randomized, placebo-controlled trials of transdermal NSAIDS included 10,160 patients (Moore RA, et al. British Medical Journal; 1998; 316:333-338). It concluded that
"topical non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs are effective in relieving pain in acute and chronic conditions".
In fact, topically applied NSAIDs were just as effective as oral NSAIDs in those studies where comparisons were done. A significant difference, however, is that with transdermal therapy
"local and systemic adverse events...were no different than placebo".
A randomized, placebo-controlled Canadian study of lateral epicondylitis showed that transdermal diclofenac in pluronic lecithin organogel (PLO gel) reduced pain and increased functional status (Burnham R, et al. Clinical J Sports Med; 1998; 8; 78-81). Another Canadian study showed that diclofenac in PLO gel was an effective treatment for osteoarthritis (Grace D, et al. J Rheumatol; 1999; 26:2659-2663).
3)here are a few refs for ya.. a bibliography if you will lol...
J Microencapsulation 1994;11:431
Increased drug delivery across skin by PLO gel
J Pharm Sci 1992;81:871
PLO gel is the best transdermal drug delivery method
Eur J Clin Pharm 1994;47:297
Transdermal NSAIDs treatment
J Pharm Sci 1995;84:324
PLO is the best method of transdermal NSAID delivery
Int J Pharmaceutical Compounding 1997;1:190
Pluronic organogel
J Intern Med Res 1990;18:372
Transdermal NSAID treatment
Pain 1995;60:267
Transdermal clonidine
Clin Ther 1993;15:10
Transdermal capsaicin
HAVE A NICE DAY!!!
1) Central Pharmacy:
Well, the advantages of transdermal drug delivery systems speak for themselves and include avoidance of side effects, avoidance of the gastrointestinal tract and hepatic first-pass biotransformation and metabolism, control of absorption, availability of multiple skin sites to avoid local irritation and toxicity, and improved compliance. The result is a wider range of therapeutic options for physicians to use in optimizing their patients care.
2) the best for last
.... DO TRANSDERMAL NSAIDS WORK?
Absolutely! Transdermal NSAIDs are both effective and safe. A meta-analysis of 86 randomized, placebo-controlled trials of transdermal NSAIDS included 10,160 patients (Moore RA, et al. British Medical Journal; 1998; 316:333-338). It concluded that
"topical non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs are effective in relieving pain in acute and chronic conditions".
In fact, topically applied NSAIDs were just as effective as oral NSAIDs in those studies where comparisons were done. A significant difference, however, is that with transdermal therapy
"local and systemic adverse events...were no different than placebo".
A randomized, placebo-controlled Canadian study of lateral epicondylitis showed that transdermal diclofenac in pluronic lecithin organogel (PLO gel) reduced pain and increased functional status (Burnham R, et al. Clinical J Sports Med; 1998; 8; 78-81). Another Canadian study showed that diclofenac in PLO gel was an effective treatment for osteoarthritis (Grace D, et al. J Rheumatol; 1999; 26:2659-2663).
3)here are a few refs for ya.. a bibliography if you will lol...
J Microencapsulation 1994;11:431
Increased drug delivery across skin by PLO gel
J Pharm Sci 1992;81:871
PLO gel is the best transdermal drug delivery method
Eur J Clin Pharm 1994;47:297
Transdermal NSAIDs treatment
J Pharm Sci 1995;84:324
PLO is the best method of transdermal NSAID delivery
Int J Pharmaceutical Compounding 1997;1:190
Pluronic organogel
J Intern Med Res 1990;18:372
Transdermal NSAID treatment
Pain 1995;60:267
Transdermal clonidine
Clin Ther 1993;15:10
Transdermal capsaicin
HAVE A NICE DAY!!!
Chemo
New member
Very good posts but they are DIRECTLY IN CONTRADICTION TO YOUR CLAIMS OF LOCALIZED DELIVERY.
Does Plo-gel support percutaneous absorption or does is it DESIGNED for delivery to the vascular plexus? If you answer this question it will solve the entire point I am trying to make here.
Plo-gel is NOT designed for deep penetration but rather as an effective vehicle to cross the SC and deliver to systemic circulation via vascular plexus. There may be some percutaneous absorption but will be rather low (as an estimation, maybe less than 2%). This low amount may be of use to one that is senstitive to Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) [i.e. - females] but the majority will find this to be very ineffective for localized delivery.
Now, there are 3 directions we can take this thread. First, we can debate the obvious and hash out how Plo-gel works. This would be redundant and get us nowhere as there are plenty of references to the actual design of the system. Second, we can concede the limitations of the Plo-gel system and realize gender sensitivity to Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (specifically tren) but warn the male members that it will not work for them (and most of the females depending on adipose). Or, third, we can work on a system that does support localized delivery. Your choice...
Does Plo-gel support percutaneous absorption or does is it DESIGNED for delivery to the vascular plexus? If you answer this question it will solve the entire point I am trying to make here.
Plo-gel is NOT designed for deep penetration but rather as an effective vehicle to cross the SC and deliver to systemic circulation via vascular plexus. There may be some percutaneous absorption but will be rather low (as an estimation, maybe less than 2%). This low amount may be of use to one that is senstitive to Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) [i.e. - females] but the majority will find this to be very ineffective for localized delivery.
Now, there are 3 directions we can take this thread. First, we can debate the obvious and hash out how Plo-gel works. This would be redundant and get us nowhere as there are plenty of references to the actual design of the system. Second, we can concede the limitations of the Plo-gel system and realize gender sensitivity to Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (specifically tren) but warn the male members that it will not work for them (and most of the females depending on adipose). Or, third, we can work on a system that does support localized delivery. Your choice...
supergirl
New member
Chemo said:
they are in SUPPORT of LOCALIZED DELIVERY... DID YOU READ ANY OF THEM??? They specifically say that plo can be compounded and applied to specific areas for penetration... IE: areas with thin skin or injuries... meaning that it will work on that specific area however will also enter the entire body, BUT with MORE concentration on a SPECIFIC area
"This low amount may be of use to one that is senstitive to Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) [i.e. - females] but the majority will find this to be very ineffective for localized delivery." WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WOMEN... YOU ARE IN THE WOMAN'S FORUM!!!!! did you even realize that the entire topic of this thread was transdermal fina for a WOMAN!!! lmao...
Transdermal fina works for a female!! either with dmso or plo, the compound is carried into the blood through the skin... It works for localized spot reduction... IT REDUCES FAT IN CERTAIN AREAS where the compound is applied...
***[Most commonly, these implant pellets are ground up and mixed with a 50/50 water/DMSO mix and applied to the skin daily. This home-brew transdermal mix is very effective, as seen in Finaplix's popularity. Some a little more daring have mixed their own BI-weekly (or more frequent)injections, although I couldn't see this being a very sanitary practice. Both when applied to the skin, or injected, users report great strength and mass gains with no gyno or water retention. Along with being a strong muscle building steroid, it is also noted as being very effective at burning fat. This has made it very appealing for competitive athletes looking to shed fat, while at the same time trying to avoid water retention and keep a the hard physique which a strong androgen helps bring about. It should also be noted that this is not a beginners steroid.] -bodybuilding.com
***Duchaine's original home brew involved crushing Finaplix in a methanol
solvent, then filtering out the insolubles and leaving the concoction to
evaporate. After the blend evaporates, the kitchen chemist has pure crystal Trenbolone Acetate. After mixing these crystals with the transdermal carrier DMSO, a person applies the anabolic elixir to their skin. Because DMSO carries the Trenbolone Acetate through the skin and into the blood stream, the user receives the same effect as injecting pure Trenbolone Acetate.
so tell me Chemo.. what is it that you have come here trying to debate out??? TRANSDERMAL FINA WORKS WELL FOR WOMAN!! so what do you want to argue with??? and i will tell you, speaking from experience where the fina is applied is obviously more sensitive to the substance.. ie: skin is penetrated in specific areas as well as fat deposits and they are broken down and reduced...
The idea with DMSO/plo is to target avascular "white fat cells."
It will immediately work in the area of administration, however
it won't exactly stay where you put it when administered transdermally as there are a bunch of blood vessels just under the skin to whisk it away. So it's going to get into the bloodstream and impart a systemic effect anyway (eventually). BUT it does work for localized delivery and affect....
so tell me Chemo.. what is your system FOR WOMAN that will support localized delivery??? and where is ALL your research debunking Dan Duchaine and localized delivery with dmso/plo???
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STANG 98
New member
clueless said:
Where the hell are all these idiots coming from anyway? They're like fucking roaches! You kill three of them, and ten more come and take their place. Any douchebag who would register on a site to come up with the dazzling comment "didn't think so" isn't wanted here. By the way, Einstein; you spelled "Bueller" wrong.
supergirl said:
Care to actually back that up with anything scientific? If you want the study about trnebolone and lipolysis, just ask.
But then again it seems your limited to cutting and pasting other people articles.
Come on supergirl, give me something that proves trenbolone burns fat.
BTW- I think you need to go read your post again. Your interpretations are much to be desired.
supergirl
New member
clueless said:
LMAO... anyone that has every used fina knows how it works.. this is ridiculous already... every article on fina SAYS it burns fat.. it is perfect for pre-contest...
Honestly, i don't need to defend myself or fina any longer.. i am bored with this argument already.. I have proven my point.. i know what works and doesn't.. everyone else knows what works...
and cut and paste other people articles... honey, that is what research finding articles is.. chemo wanted research and articles and i found him some...
so swat now little bug... go back to your prohormone board
http://www.basskilleronline.com/phlogel.html
www.paddocklabs.com/publications/[/url] secundum/VOLUME%208.2.pdf
Once again you fail to even back it up with anything. You can't find the study. Should I tell how to use PubMed?
Trenbolone doesn't BURN FAT!!!
Lipogenesis in adipose tissue from ovariectomized and intact heifers immunized against estradiol and (or) implanted with trenbolone acetate.
St John LC, Ekeren PA, Crouse JD, Schanbacher BD, Smith SB.
Forty-two heifers were allotted randomly to six treatment groups: intact controls, intact heifers implanted with trenbolone acetate, ovariectomized heifers, ovariectomized heifers implanted with trenbolone acetate, intact heifers immunized against estradiol and intact heifers immunized against estradiol and implanted with trenbolone acetate. Blood titers of estradiol-17 beta were increased over 100-fold in heifers immunized against estradiol in Freund's complete adjuvant or saline:squalene/arlacel containing Mycobacterium. Lipogenic enzyme activities and acetate incorporation into fatty acids were increased in subcutaneous adipose tissue obtained at slaughter from heifers receiving immunization or the combination of immunization and trenbolone acetate. The increased lipogenic capacity was not reflected in either cell diameter or cells per gram adipose tissue. Ovariectomy in combination with trenbolone acetate caused the lowest activities for all enzymes measured. This treatments also caused the greatest decrease in cell diameter, which resulted in the largest number of cells per gram of adipose tissue. Trenbolone acetate alone had no detectable effect on lipogenesis in the intact heifer, but the combination of ovariectomy and trenbolone acetate caused substantial decreases in enzyme activities, in most cases a significant decrease as compared with ovariectomized heifers. The data suggest that trenbolone acetate is able to depress lipogenesis only when not competing with the effects of circulating estradiol.
Now what does that mean? When not competing with curculating estradiol lipogenesis is inhibited. What does that mean? You mainly gain pure LBM and reduce the overall bf%!!!! It doesn't BURN FAT! Guess what? This will happen if you apply to your stomach, ass, leg, head, etc....
Please get a clue and stop blindly following articles. I have a couple of T-Mag articles for you if your interested.
Trenbolone doesn't BURN FAT!!!
Lipogenesis in adipose tissue from ovariectomized and intact heifers immunized against estradiol and (or) implanted with trenbolone acetate.
St John LC, Ekeren PA, Crouse JD, Schanbacher BD, Smith SB.
Forty-two heifers were allotted randomly to six treatment groups: intact controls, intact heifers implanted with trenbolone acetate, ovariectomized heifers, ovariectomized heifers implanted with trenbolone acetate, intact heifers immunized against estradiol and intact heifers immunized against estradiol and implanted with trenbolone acetate. Blood titers of estradiol-17 beta were increased over 100-fold in heifers immunized against estradiol in Freund's complete adjuvant or saline:squalene/arlacel containing Mycobacterium. Lipogenic enzyme activities and acetate incorporation into fatty acids were increased in subcutaneous adipose tissue obtained at slaughter from heifers receiving immunization or the combination of immunization and trenbolone acetate. The increased lipogenic capacity was not reflected in either cell diameter or cells per gram adipose tissue. Ovariectomy in combination with trenbolone acetate caused the lowest activities for all enzymes measured. This treatments also caused the greatest decrease in cell diameter, which resulted in the largest number of cells per gram of adipose tissue. Trenbolone acetate alone had no detectable effect on lipogenesis in the intact heifer, but the combination of ovariectomy and trenbolone acetate caused substantial decreases in enzyme activities, in most cases a significant decrease as compared with ovariectomized heifers. The data suggest that trenbolone acetate is able to depress lipogenesis only when not competing with the effects of circulating estradiol.
Now what does that mean? When not competing with curculating estradiol lipogenesis is inhibited. What does that mean? You mainly gain pure LBM and reduce the overall bf%!!!! It doesn't BURN FAT! Guess what? This will happen if you apply to your stomach, ass, leg, head, etc....
Please get a clue and stop blindly following articles. I have a couple of T-Mag articles for you if your interested.
supergirl
New member
THANK YOU.. that was so very kind of you.... i truly value your denigrations.. you must be so proud of yourself...clueless said:
post all your articles.. i would love to read them.. THANK YOU FOR PROVING that tren does work in burning fat.. it increases LBM while lowering bf.. bodyfat is lowered... gee look at that.. fat is gone!!! OMG he has a clue!!! wow.. holy shit... FAT IS BURNED...
aside from that.. spot reduction is achieved by transdermal application.. this i have seen on 3 bbers and myself.. so take it for what it is worth.... although i tend to put alot of weight into field research and acutal human experience and results...
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