Try Restart Protocols first!

[railrider]

I've been noticeing alot of young guys in their early 20's wanting/needing to get on TRT. Many of us including myself at that age experiment in Prohormones/AAS and cause our own problems. I think its extremely important that at that young age people should try a simple restart protocol to see if they can rebound their own symstems because in my opinion Natural is always best. I wish I had this option before I jumped right into full blown TRT.
However I have no experience in a protocol other than Clomid 50mg EOD (but causes some emotional sides) that works especially for one who has been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for awhile. So others please chime in with some protocols these younger guys could/should give a try before the testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) commitment.

 

[TR2838]

I Agree.. Anyone just coming off an AAS cycle or prohormones cycle needs to give their body time to start making their own T first before jumpping on a lifetime testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) regiment..
But, I'm not sure Clomid is the way to get the T levels up? There are
some concerns about it being a carcinogen.. I'm not 100% sure about how valid that claim is, but, it's definitely a concern.. Long term- short term?? I think time, good diet and a good post cycle workout plan is a safer option.. But, yes, I agree that natural Test will always be better than exogenous test because of there being no negative feedback loops? IMHO.. Always willing to learn more though!

 

[jomamma007]

Should contain something with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and possibly clomid/nolva, not sure about dosages, but I think it's a great idea to try it first, unless you've been diagnosed with low test before you even took a cycle

 

[MoparMuscle]

Very true, I'd recommend trying a restart under the supervision of someone like chip 1st.

 

[railrider]

After talking with an Endo this is what weve come up with together. We are going to get agressive with the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) until I get test levels in the 500's so dosage is unknown. Then we will switch to the serm protocol.

WEEKS 1-2 20mgs Nolva, 25mg Aromasin ED
WEEKS 3-8 10mgs Nolva, 12.5mg Aromasin ED
WEEKS 9-16 5mgs Nolva, 12.5mg Aromasin ED
WEEKS 17-19 5mgs Nolva EOD 12.5mg Aromasin ED

Guys with experience feel free to share any useful suggestions.

Do Blood work 2wks after last dose of Nolva to see where im at. I will also post every week how im feeling and any problem that im having.

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

Do your self a favor IGF-1 lr3 will reverse atrophy in most cases. Use the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to get your boys back to the right size and ten run clomid and igf. I used it for a month after being on for 2 years and was good to go with normal post cycle therapy (pct). Knocked up my wife a few month latter.

 

[railrider]

How does the lr3 come into play this is a first I've heard of it being incorparated? Please share im very interested. Does it really matter if I use Nolva or Clomid. I used clomid for a month about 2yrs ago at 50mg EOD and it made me feel like shit (although it did increase my levels) and was told by others Nolva had less sides for them and that it worked even better to restore natty levels because it has effects on both the hypothalumus and the pituitary. Also I already have the script filled for Nolva and I to am coming off a 2yr stint.
What was your normal pct that you used. If you don't want to share with everyone please PM me if you don't mind. Thanks for sharing.
Started the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) today 1,000ius eod to get things rolling.

 

[railrider]

I've been researching coming off of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and have found some interesting posts. Some individuals who like me have been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for 2yrs + and have had sucessful restarts. However they have done them much different than the typical restart. All have used either Clomid/Nolva but have been using a low dose longer term protocol. Examples I have found are Clomid 25mg either EOD/E3D/E4D or Nolva instead at 10mg same dosing. The length of time varies from 2-6months. Using a lower dose would lesson the sides and the longer term would let the lyding cells repair more and let the top end of the hpta get used to firing again.

 

[jomamma007]

I've been researching coming off of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and have found some interesting posts. Some individuals who like me have been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for 2yrs + and have had sucessful restarts. However they have done them much different than the typical restart. All have used either Clomid/Nolva but have been using a low dose longer term protocol. Examples I have found are Clomid 25mg either EOD/E3D/E4D or Nolva instead at 10mg same dosing. The length of time varies from 2-6months. Using a lower dose would lesson the sides and the longer term would let the lyding cells repair more and let the top end of the hpta get used to firing again.

Why don't you just stay on HRT?

 

[railrider]

Honestly because other than the first 4-5 months I've felt like shit ever since. Even though all my levels have been tweaked to be in the optimal range I still feel basically like a strung out junkie (it takes to many different meds to keep everything functioning correctly). Its been a constant battle. Yes I have good day's where I feel like a champ but I have many bad day's. Personally if I can do a simple stint of Nolva or Clomid and get my levels into the 500's or higher then slowly taper off and maintain I will never touch the stuff again. If not then I guess I have to stay on HRT.

 

[cjw2021]

railrider, have you monitored SHBG, free test, and estrogen? Maybe your hgh levels are low too? Maybe cortisol is low? Have you done an insulin resistance test? Have you tried a different ester? Propionate maybe? Prolactin should also be looked at.

These are all things I would look at before trying a restart, as they can cause the zombie fatigue you speak of. Getting your natty test levels up will just make you feel the exact same way. A high Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is quite estrogenic. So if estrogen is causing these problems, then that is a problem.

I would do 25 mg aromasin 1-2x a week, hydrocortisone 5mg 4x a day if your results are in the bottom half and doctor agrees (periodic daily saliva testing is the best method IMO for testing this), Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 1-2x a week, and test propionate 3 shots a week. If SHBG is say above 25 there are ways to bring that down to 15. Add in HGH, add in a 100mg timed release 5-htp...a timed release 3mg melatonin at bed time, and maybe some arginine/orthinine 1gram each combo and I can't see how anyone would not feel loads better.

Your restart protocol may crash your estrogen and leave you feeling quite shitty, but obviously it is worth knowing if your testicles can still function. 500 is still not a performance level. If someone gave me that much aromasin and nolva I'd have a pounding headache by day 3 that would not go away until the drugs were withdrawn. So just be careful...I know the idea is to make the body sense low estrogen and produce more T to aromatize...but if you keep killing the aromatase enzyme and downregulating the estrogen receptor on this protocol, the estrogen won't rebound and you'll have crashed e2 symptoms the entire time.

 

[railrider]

railrider, have you monitored SHBG, free test, and estrogen? Maybe your hgh levels are low too? Maybe cortisol is low? Have you done an insulin resistance test? Have you tried a different ester? Propionate maybe? Prolactin should also be looked at.

These are all things I would look at before trying a restart, as they can cause the zombie fatigue you speak of. Getting your natty test levels up will just make you feel the exact same way. A high Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is quite estrogenic. So if estrogen is causing these problems, then that is a problem.

I would do 25 mg aromasin 1-2x a week, hydrocortisone 5mg 4x a day if your results are in the bottom half and doctor agrees (periodic daily saliva testing is the best method IMO for testing this), Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 1-2x a week, and test propionate 3 shots a week. If SHBG is say above 25 there are ways to bring that down to 15. Add in HGH, add in a 100mg timed release 5-htp...a timed release 3mg melatonin at bed time, and maybe some arginine/orthinine 1gram each combo and I can't see how anyone would not feel loads better.

Your restart protocol may crash your estrogen and leave you feeling quite shitty, but obviously it is worth knowing if your testicles can still function. 500 is still not a performance level. If someone gave me that much aromasin and nolva I'd have a pounding headache by day 3 that would not go away until the drugs were withdrawn. So just be careful...I know the idea is to make the body sense low estrogen and produce more T to aromatize...but if you keep killing the aromatase enzyme and downregulating the estrogen receptor on this protocol, the estrogen won't rebound and you'll have crashed e2 symptoms the entire time.

We've monitored all those things man. All have been in check for a long time now. It just feels like im putting to many foreign things into my body and im on a toxic overload. It can't hurt to try to spring my body back into normal cycle. I've been thinking about the dosages of Nolva also and will discuss with him about starting at an even lower dose.

 

[cash]

I went down the "restart road" and I can tell you it can hurt. I felt wayu worse, horrible symptoms returned and I never was successful. I like the idea, just did not work for me.
Also, I dont feel that great now. Having my own problems.... might start a thread, but you will most likely feel horrible for a while as you begin the restart.

 

[cashout]

We've monitored all those things man. All have been in check for a long time now. It just feels like im putting to many foreign things into my body and im on a toxic overload. It can't hurt to try to spring my body back into normal cycle. I've been thinking about the dosages of Nolva also and will discuss with him about starting at an even lower dose.

I'd suggest you read some of Dr. Micheal Scally's work or better yet contact him. He has worked with a number of folks on "restarts" and has published some of his findings. In the last article I read he seemed to demonstrate a very effective restart protocol.

[81] Hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis normalization protocol after androgen treatment

 

[railrider]

I know I'll feel like shit and Im prepared for it. I will look at Scally's protocols but I can't open your link but thank you I will do some research on him.

 

[cjw2021]

I doubt that restart would work. Contact Scally.

 

[TR2838]

No homo.. Not joking either.. Hot yoga(bikram yoga).. Whether you restart or not.. A friend of mine kicked a hard core opiate addiction doing this.. Somehow it has a very positive effect on the nervous system.. Sounds like your CNS might be burned out.. I don't do it because the classes are full in my neighborhood and I don't have time to be traveling for yoga classes.. I am sure this will help you feel better either way you go..
Good luck

 

[railrider]

Finally got the link to scally to open up and did I read the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dosage correctly
2500ius 4x/day for 16 days. That seems insane.
I dug up some old labs of mine and 2yrs ago before testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) we did clomid at 50mg mon,wed,fri and got lh of 5.7 and tt of 567 E2 of 60(which is a false reading) after 30days. So im wondering if I should just try the same thing for 30days and do labs.

 

[cjw2021]

Probably that clomid restart would be better than a nolva + Aromatase inhibitor (AI) restart. I can't see how doing nolva + another Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is going to restart anything. That's just going to crash your estrogen, which won't take much since you aren't even on test and have low T levels. You'd probably crash your estrogen the first day, and I mean you'd have full blown headaches that won't go away. And considering the testicles must have a concentration of aromatase enzyme it would probably inhibit them further.

I would seriously examine cortisol via saliva during the day several times, insulin resistance, igf-1 levels, and SHBG. Because I have been in the same boat as you before just jumping on a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol and not feeling any different. All the hormones work together, and if one is off, they basically don't work very well alone.

 

[cashout]

Finally got the link to scally to open up and did I read the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) dosage correctly
2500ius 4x/day for 16 days. That seems insane.
I dug up some old labs of mine and 2yrs ago before testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) we did clomid at 50mg mon,wed,fri and got lh of 5.7 and tt of 567 E2 of 60(which is a false reading) after 30days. So im wondering if I should just try the same thing for 30days and do labs.

It is not 4 times a day it is once every 4 days. I've got the full article and there is a typo in that abstract.