Trying to drop fat and buk simultaneously?

[jumbojuice]

So I went into a cycle with so pretty high fat (for me) but I wanted to put on mass also. So I was in a predicament. So I looked into the paleo diet, I like the idea of it but I feel like trying to bulk on it would be very difficult. So I added in cotaage cheese and some other dairy. I pretty much cut out carbs and any processed food and a lot of my former daily sodium intake. Oh and no sweets either

 

[jumbojuice]

And I'm 5' 11" 235lbs at around 16-17%

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Low carb isn't the best for bulking... you should pick one and stick with it. You wont accomplish both on your own. I would advise looking into 3J.

 

[halfwit]

Doable? Yes. Painfully slow and damn expensive? Absolutely.

I personally am debating on trying to bulk while in ketosis (20g of carbs per day) as I'm a diabetic, and keto makes it so much easier to manage blood sugar. As I'll require around 6500 kcals per day to bulk, I'm a bit apprehensive as that's an ass-ton of calories to consume without a cheap source that are carbohydrates.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Doable? Yes. Painfully slow and damn expensive? Absolutely.

I personally am debating on trying to bulk while in ketosis (20g of carbs per day) as I'm a diabetic, and keto makes it so much easier to manage blood sugar. As I'll require around 6500 kcals per day to bulk, I'm a bit apprehensive as that's an ass-ton of calories to consume without a cheap source that are carbohydrates.

Yeah I saw you mention that the other day, gives me the jeebies just thinking about it haha. I can understand why it might be good for you tho

 

[halfwit]

Yeah I saw you mention that the other day, gives me the jeebies just thinking about it haha. I can understand why it might be good for you tho

I have a feeling that I'm going to end up just biting the bullet and going back to carbs, but it would be really amazing if I could pull it off. The cost is what bothers me the most as meat is certainly more expensive than a bunch of oats/rice/red potatoes/yams.

Time will tell for sure, just a few more pesky pounds of fat until I can give it a whirl!

 

[jumbojuice]

Ya, it has been pretty expensive. To eat carb free when you are out is at least a $15 minimum where I am. But at home with chicken, brisket, venison, and the 150 lbs of tuna steaks I have in my chest freezer from my trip this last fall, it hasn't been too expensive. But you are right I haven't really bulked very much mayybe added 3lbs but I have deffinitely been getting much leaner and maintaining my weight. I wouldn't even really mind staying this weight and just shedding fat

 

[jumbojuice]

If I could end up 235 and 10% what would be the difference between that and going up to 250 then cutting?

 

[jumbojuice]

Let's be fair. 12%

 

[halfwit]

If I could end up 235 and 10% what would be the difference between that and going up to 250 then cutting?

Time and effort are the huge differences.

It is faster to bulk (not "dirty") and cut afterwards. Reason being that you have new muscle mass and a happy metabolism after a bulk, so you have less calories to cut from your TDEE. It's also far easier (imo) to eat clean calories in a surplus with an occasional "cheat" to keep things fun than to always be in a modest deficit or cry into your plate as you watch someone down a slice of cheesecake at the restaurant.

I totally wish you the best, and definitely envy your freezer haha.

 

[jumbojuice]

Lol believe it or not tuna gets old. I go shark and tuna fishing several times a year and mako is always the first to dissapear, it literally tastes like steak with the consistency of fish

 

[jumbojuice]

So what would you say is the minimum amount of carbs ? And what's the best source? Oats and brown sugar type stuff?

Please say pancakes

 

[halfwit]

Lol believe it or not tuna gets old. I go shark and tuna fishing several times a year and mako is always the first to dissapear, it literally tastes like steak with the consistency of fish

I eat tuna every day, but totally hear you. I miss being able to fish in the salt water and have FRESH fish, not this frozen crap from the store. I used to eat chimera sharks, but not nearly as good tasting as their bigger cousins. Awesome food source!

Edit: Hah! You snuck in another post while I was replying lol

So what would you say is the minimum amount of carbs ? And what's the best source? Oats and brown sugar type stuff?

Please say pancakes

20g per day for ketosis. No pancakes, oats, flour, sugar, potatoes, rice, pasta, corn, peas, fruit, and many other things we always think of as healthy. The purpose is to force your body into using ketones that are only produced when the body runs out of glucose for an extended period of time. It is NOT easy at all, and most of my carbs come from having one low carb Yogurt (4g), salad dressing (2g), prepared meats (5g), and veggies like green beans or nuts.

You learn very quickly to start reading the label on everything! It broke my heart when I realized I would have to make sacrifices in other areas just to have two tablespoons of peanut butter (8g).

 

[jumbojuice]

So your saying stick with bulking on the no (minimal) carb program?
And don't you know , according to the government fresh fish is poison

 

[3J]

why are you even looking into paleo??

the best way to recomp is carb cycling.. tried and tested with all my clients..

 

[bigben66]

The purpose is to force your body into using ketones that are only produced when the body runs out of glucose for an extended period of time. It is NOT easy at all, and most of my carbs come from having one low carb Yogurt (4g), salad dressing (2g), prepared meats (5g), and veggies like green beans or nuts.

That's gotta be tough HW... I shudder to even contemplate a workout on that fuel load!

 

[Roush]

Protein dense carbs like black beans - u can get some carbs in while maintaining a relatively high or very high protein diet.
I carb load and carb cycle - beginning of week I load up,, then slowly step it down,, then by time my day off is here I take in no carbs. With the goal of bulking and trying to not ad bf%.. That's the beauty of AAS (dependent on diet genetics and metabolism) is that it is possible to gain muscle and loose fat at the same time

 

[jumbojuice]

Maybe not paleo I just would like to cut out a lot of carbs maybe go paleo over the spring while running my pct, And for a bit after until my next cycle. I'm just digging the idea of it. It's a hard diet to maintain though. Black beans tho? I'll do that. I also think I'm going to drop some tren ace into my cycle

 

[Roush]

Compare black beans to rice

1 cup white rice
44.5 g carbs
4 G protein

1 cup black beans
40 g carbs
15.5 G protein

That's four times the amount of protein for the same serving size, and similar amount of carbs.

Cook black beans with 12 oz of ground buffalo - which has 66 grams of protein
So that meal will give you
82 g of protein and a low 40 g of carbs

One of my staple meals.. Also organic wild rice and tuna steak (wild rice has more protein nutrients and vitamins then regular rice)

 

[halfwit]

So your saying stick with bulking on the no (minimal) carb program?
And don't you know , according to the government fresh fish is poison

I'd honestly pick 3J's brain in the diet forum and see what he thinks. I've hired him in the past, and he DEFINITELY knows his shit.

That's gotta be tough HW... I shudder to even contemplate a workout on that fuel load!

Yeah, I'm really nervous about it to be honest. Part of it is that my wife is still going to be cutting on keto, so I'd feel like a royal asshole by eating carbs in front of her. I'm super excited either way though. 2880 calories for me is really rough as it is, and seeing those poundages on the weights dropping is really frustrating to say the least.

I'll definitely share my experience either way though!