Updated blood work, TRT for 5 months, help please!

[Un1baller]

Hello all, a brief summary for everyone. I am 25 years old, 190 pounds, 6'1''. Gym 6 days a week, mostly clean diet. I started TRT 5 months ago. My levels were 300 ng/dl prior to TRT. After 8 weeks on 50 mg of test E3.5D, my levels only went up to 400 ng/dl, and I felt the same as I did pre TRT. My endo upped my protocol to 70mg E3.5D and I also started 250 IU of HCG E3.5D. That has been my protocol for the last 3 months.

I still feel pretty much the same as pre TRT, except I have been getting pretty bad shoulder acne and I gained 12 pounds in just a few weeks despite adding cardio and eating cleaner. My strength in the gym went up as well, which has been the only good thing from TRT at the moment. My bench went from 180 to 205 for my 1 rep max in just a couple months which is huge for me since prior to TRT, in the past year of lifting, my bench has only gone up about 20 pounds.

Anyways, the 12 pounds I gained seemed to be all water and fat. I can not for the life of me lose the weight, and I have a gut. I eat clean and cheat once a week. I lift heavy 6 days a week, I fear my estradiol is high. So I have gotten updated blood work after putting it off for a while. Here are the results below.

Test total - 784 reference - 250-1100 ng/dl

Free test - 225 reference - 35-155 ng/dl

E2 estradiol - 44 - reference - 0-56 pg/dl

White cell count - 8.34 - reference - 4-11 thou/cmm

Red cell count - 5.52 - reference - 4.20-5.90 mil/cumm

Hemoglobin - 16.1 - reference - 13.5-18.0 GM/DL

Hematocrit - 47.0 - reference - 40-54

DHEA sulfate - 214 - reference - 85-690 mcg/dl

Sex hormone binding globulin - 17 - reference - 10-50 nmol/l

Lipid panel: Cholesterol - 162 - reference - 100-200 mg/dl

Triglycerides - 217 - reference - 0-200 mg/dl

HDL cholesterol 33.6 - reference - 35-68 mg/dl

LDL cholesterol 106.7 - reference - 0-100 mg/dl

TSH - 3.000 - reference - 0.38-4.70 uiu/ml

Testosterone - 648.7 - reference - 280-800 ng/dl

So first of all, why do I have two different total testosterone numbers? One is under the lipid panel and the other is next to the free test. And also, why is my free test so high? Shouldn't I feel great at a high free test level? I asked for the sensitive estradiol E2 test, so I am guessing that is what they tested. It is high, but not out of range? If I lower the E2, should I start feeling the positive effects from TRT? Any help is appreciated!

 

[Megatron28]

Can't answer why the two different TT labs. You will have to call your lab and ask why.

Either way though, all your numbers look pretty good. E2 is OK, but higher than some guys like it. Since you are not using an AI you could try using DIM and Zinc first. That may suffice. If it doesn't work a very low AI dose would be the next option.

Are you sure you have gained fat? Could it be glycogen and the water that comes with it? This might help explain why your strength is up.

Oh, and as TT starts getting into the upper end of range it is common to see Free T that is above normal. Some guys don't feel good when their Free T is too high -- so keep that in the back of your mind if these other things don't help how you feel.

 

[Un1baller]

I will try DIM and Zinc, thanks for the suggestion.

I think I have gained fat because that is what it looks and feels like. I have cleaned my diet up a bit, started cardio, lowered my calories, and I still can not lose any fat and my gut is bloated all the time. Is that because of my high E2? I have heard that everyone is affected differently with high E2, and I feel that 44 is really high for me and I would benefit from a lower E2 like in the 20's. If it is glycogen and water, how do I get rid of that? I have never had a gut before and it is very frustrating. Before TRT, I could not put on any weight.

I also think that my test level of 784 should be higher, since I do not feel any of the positive effects from TRT that I have read others feel (besides the minor strength gain that I have). I am not aiming for a certain number, but I just want to feel better. Isn't that the whole point of TRT? I think if I can get to the 1000's level I will feel a lot better. That, and lowering my E2. But honestly I am just not really sure what I need to do to start feeling better,

 

[Megatron28]

I will try DIM and Zinc, thanks for the suggestion.

I think I have gained fat because that is what it looks and feels like. I have cleaned my diet up a bit, started cardio, lowered my calories, and I still can not lose any fat and my gut is bloated all the time. Is that because of my high E2? I have heard that everyone is affected differently with high E2, and I feel that 44 is really high for me and I would benefit from a lower E2 like in the 20's. If it is glycogen and water, how do I get rid of that? I have never had a gut before and it is very frustrating. Before TRT, I could not put on any weight.

I also think that my test level of 784 should be higher, since I do not feel any of the positive effects from TRT that I have read others feel (besides the minor strength gain that I have). I am not aiming for a certain number, but I just want to feel better. Isn't that the whole point of TRT? I think if I can get to the 1000's level I will feel a lot better. That, and lowering my E2. But honestly I am just not really sure what I need to do to start feeling better,

Getting dialed in on TRT is a process. Let's change one thing at a time. Then we can determine cause and effect. It took me a year to get dialed in for example. Constant tweak after tweak to see what worked.

Start by trying the DIM and Zinc. Let see where that brings your E2 down to. Look up Austinite's recommended protocol for this.

As for higher TT, honestly if 800 doesn't do it for you, I highly doubt that 1000 magical will be the day and night difference.

Glycogen is generally considered a good thing unless you are doing a ketogenic diet. Why would you want to deplete your glycogen reserves? One of the benefits of Testosterone is that it allows you to hold more glycogen in your muscles.

Are you counting how many calories you consume daily and what your macros are? Using something like MyFitnessPal to do so? Because sometimes when test levels increase guys get hungrier. You may be eating more.

 

[Un1baller]

I use to use MyFitnessPal until I got a better understanding of what I was eating. I eat the same things everyday now so I know all the macros etc. I will try the DIM and Zinc and report back with results.

after a lot of research, I am going to try 200 mg of DIM, 50 mg of Zinc, and 2 mg of Copper a day. I am hoping it will lower my E2 just enough to get me feeling right. IF not, I will look into an AI. I will report back here with results in the future. Hope it works!

 

[Un1baller]

****UPDATE****

I have been taking the 200 mg of DIM, 50 mg of Zinc, and 2 mg of Copper every day for the past 3 weeks in hopes that it will lower my estrogen just enough to start to feel better. I don't notice any changes yet, but I did go get more blood work and my trough test is 470 ng/dl and my sensitive E2 is pretty much the same at 42.

I don't feel any better at all since beginning TRT 6 months ago. My protocol is not working, so I am going to up my dosage from 70 mg of test E3.5D to 100 mg of test E3.5D. I am also going to up my HCG dosage from 250 IU to 400 IU E3.5D. Lastly, I am going to discontinue the DIM, Zinc and Copper and begin taking Anastrozole.

My question is, what would be the best dosage for me? I am thinking about starting at .25 mg E3.5D and taking it at the same time that I do my E3.5D test and HCG shots. My endo. told me to take 1 mg of Anastrozole every day by the way. He is such a silly man....

Thoughts? I just want to feel better! I am 25 years old, and I want to feel like it. My main symptoms are lethargy, brain fog, low libido, acne, memory loss, weight gain / bloat, irritable, and I can't remember the rest right now. Go figure. I really think that the Anastrozole and the increase in my Test and HCG will be the right protocol.

 

[Megatron28]

.25mg of Adex every 3.5 days is where I recommend starting.

But go ahead at let your doc prescribe more. You can save it up for future endeavors.

 

[3J]

when you say you "dont feel any different" what do you mean??

what exactly are you expecting from trt??

 

[Un1baller]

.25mg of Adex every 3.5 days is where I recommend starting.

But go ahead at let your doc prescribe more. You can save it up for future endeavors.

Yes...Yes muahhhh (evil genius laugh)

when you say you "dont feel any different" what do you mean??

what exactly are you expecting from trt??

I don't feel any different compared to how I felt pre TRT. Nothing has changed, literary all of my low t symptoms are still there but now I have embarrassing shoulder acne and I have gained 10 pounds of water / fat. I want to feel good, and from what I have read from successful TRT users is that they feel good.

 

[3J]

Yes...Yes muahhhh (evil genius laugh)



I don't feel any different compared to how I felt pre TRT. Nothing has changed, literary all of my low t symptoms are still there but now I have embarrassing shoulder acne and I have gained 10 pounds of water / fat. I want to feel good, and from what I have read from successful TRT users is that they feel good.

hows your libido??

i think youre expecting some kind of "high" on trt..

im on 80mg twice a week.. im not experiencing a "high"

i do notice better recovery.. easier time losing bodyfat.. more muscle preservation.. better libido..

but this magical sense of energy and well being??

i was depressed all week last week because of shit that was happening in my life..

im super tired at times since i train alot..

what exactly are you looking for???? you have to be realistic with your expectations

 

[Lenex]

Whats your diet like?

 

[Un1baller]

hows your libido??

i think youre expecting some kind of "high" on trt..

im on 80mg twice a week.. im not experiencing a "high"

i do notice better recovery.. easier time losing bodyfat.. more muscle preservation.. better libido..

but this magical sense of energy and well being??

i was depressed all week last week because of shit that was happening in my life..

im super tired at times since i train alot..

what exactly are you looking for???? you have to be realistic with your expectations

I am looking for better recovery.. easier time losing bodyfat.. more muscle preservation.. and better libido..

I have none of those, so we can start with that. I am completely realistic about my expectations, I want to feel better than I do with low T. I am not looking for a magical sense of well being.

Whats your diet like?

Clean for the most part. protein shakes with spinach, oat flour, whey protein, blueberries, and greek yogurt. Ground turkey and rice. Chicken breast. Apples, cherries, etc. I eat clean and boring and I work out 6 days a week with minor cardio. There is not reason for the belly fat other than the TRT.


Anyways, should I stop taking the DIM and Zinc / Copper when I start the AI?

 

[Profion9k]

nice to see you back.
we kinda started at the same time, comming from the same back ground... The ball room.

The TRT has worked for me, my brainfog, tiredness, energy, musclemass, strength, speed, ect! only thing that seems abit weak is my sexual energy and boner aggresion! Im on Nebido 1000mg = 660mg active testosterone.
been doing mostly every 6weeks
but we are trying half dose every 2weeks, to controle estrogene better.

Ive started education, sports, lifting and so on! but im still not there after the treatment, i collapse mentally after 7hours of school. As if it can cope more, but its getting better and better!

 

[Alpin]

Where's TSH, FREE T4, FREE T3 (most importantly)?

 

[halfape211]

(1) Perhaps I missed this. But we are giving you advice assuming blood test numbers are correct. Can I ask how many days after injection are you getting your blood test? (sometimes a "trough" is not really a "trough".) In other words, I question weather your T numbers are really as high as you think, based on halflife of T. I just think you should explore this. After all if you have enough T and low enough E2, your pretty much should be gtg, speaking generally of course
(2) Sounds like your doctor is not a trained on Hormone Replacement (1 mg of AI a day !!) Tron gave you good advice on taking Zink. I would keep taking Zink. Get your DHEA checked to see if the HCG is letting you make the DHEA. My doc strongly suggests supplementing with Zink and DHEA, even if my blood test shows adequate dhea. I don't think DHEA is your problem, but it gives you a feeling of wellbeing. So go for it.

 

[Un1baller]

Where's TSH, FREE T4, FREE T3 (most importantly)?

TSH from the OP bood work says it is 3.000 - reference - 0.38-4.70 uiu/ml

My T3 and T4 was not tested, I will request that for my next blood work.

(1) Perhaps I missed this. But we are giving you advice assuming blood test numbers are correct. Can I ask how many days after injection are you getting your blood test? (sometimes a "trough" is not really a "trough".) In other words, I question weather your T numbers are really as high as you think, based on halflife of T. I just think you should explore this. After all if you have enough T and low enough E2, your pretty much should be gtg, speaking generally of course
(2) Sounds like your doctor is not a trained on Hormone Replacement (1 mg of AI a day !!) Tron gave you good advice on taking Zink. I would keep taking Zink. Get your DHEA checked to see if the HCG is letting you make the DHEA. My doc strongly suggests supplementing with Zink and DHEA, even if my blood test shows adequate dhea. I don't think DHEA is your problem, but it gives you a feeling of wellbeing. So go for it.

I do 2 shots a week. One on Wednesday night and one on Sunday morning. Every 3.5 days.

The first blood test I posted in this thread was on a Friday at 10:00 am and my test was at 784 at that time. The second blood test I posted later on in this thread was taken on a Wednesday at 9:00 am and my test was 470 ng/dl. So, the first test was right in between my shots and the second test was 10 hours before my next shot.

Regardless of the numbers, I still do not feel the positive effects of TRT. I am not judging my numbers at this point, I am judging how I feel. Anyways, I have been on my new protocol of 100 mg of test, 400 IU of HCG and .25 of Anastrozole every E3.5D. It has been one week so I will update this thread with results soon.

 

[halfape211]

TSH from the OP bood work says it is 3.000 - reference - 0.38-4.70 uiu/ml


Regardless of the numbers, I still do not feel the positive effects of TRT. I am not judging my numbers at this point, I am judging how I feel. Anyways, I have been on my new protocol of 100 mg of test, 400 IU of HCG and .25 of Anastrozole every E3.5D. It has been one week so I will update this thread with results soon.

Halfape211 wrote:
Others with more experience can chime in, But some consider blood tests taken 1.5 days to 3 days later to be a peak. I always considered 7 days to be the trough. If you are only 470 after three days, your true trough must be 200 or so. I suggest that you take your blood test after 7 days. Either take a weeks dose and wait 7 days or whatever. I believe you do not feel well because your dose of T is too low. (And 140/week is not a large dose). I too did not feel better for several months until my dose was increased adequately. BTW, you may require more AI, when you increase T, but blood tests give that decision
I suggest continue pinning every 3.5 except the week of the blood test. that's my 2 cents

I'm not sure how others here who pin every 3.5 days handle this.