I will go for TT, E2 , LH , FSH and CBC soon , then I will post it up here
Very very low testosterone
- Thread starter addy
- Start date
I will go for TT, E2 , LH , FSH and CBC soon , then I will post it up here
Guys so I called up the lab to ask about the LC/MS methods about TT and also about sensitive E2, LH/FSH .
The lab told me that if I want to get my TT don through LC/MS and my sensitive E2 which they said is ultra sensitive E2 they will be sending my samples in the U.S.A ( I live in India) and it will cost me around 130$ dollars which honestly I can't afford but if it is really important to get it done through LC/MS then I will try to get it done . Whereas the regular method will cost me around 40$ for the same .
So I just wanted to ask you guys about this .
The lab told me that if I want to get my TT don through LC/MS and my sensitive E2 which they said is ultra sensitive E2 they will be sending my samples in the U.S.A ( I live in India) and it will cost me around 130$ dollars which honestly I can't afford but if it is really important to get it done through LC/MS then I will try to get it done . Whereas the regular method will cost me around 40$ for the same .
So I just wanted to ask you guys about this .
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scorob777
New member
No, it's not super important. People just want to see your LH and FSH levels to see if you hypothalamus and/or pituitary are working properly, your total testosterone to see if your nuts are working properly (assuming you have decent LH level), and E2 to see where it lies relative to the testosterone, and if it is a problem.
Standard tests are good enough for that.
Stick with us, I can show you a couple of PCT protocols you could try on your own to see if that helps. If not you'll need to see an endo again, and maybe a different one from the guys who only wanted to try DHEA.
Standard tests are good enough for that.
Stick with us, I can show you a couple of PCT protocols you could try on your own to see if that helps. If not you'll need to see an endo again, and maybe a different one from the guys who only wanted to try DHEA.
Thanks a lot brother for remembering my issue with the endo and my post , means a lot . Ok then I will get the standard tests done on any day in next week and post up the results .
Thanks a lot for your help again brother , means a lot !
scorob777
New member
Well it looks like you confirmed what you already knew - low test levels, high (ish) E2 - especially compared to the low T, and it also looks like you are secondary hypogonadal with either your hypothalamus or pituitary not doing their job. With LH of 3.0 and test of 336 it looks like your balls are working, but getting a weak signal.
You are best off seeing an endo, and somebody different from before. Failing that if you want amateur advice, I would try a HPTA restart protocol. It would be fairly inexpensive, and quick to let you know if it worked or not. As we spoke about the HCG in the front part of the protocol might not be necessary, but no harm in doing it. You could try 1,000 HCG IU per day for 10 days, then clomid at 50 mg/day for six weeks plus nolva 40 mg/day for 3 weeks, then 20 mg/day for last 3 weeks.
Did you mention your body fat % above, if so I missed it. I'm curious about the high ish E2, and you mentioned gyno. If you've got high body fat it would be hugely beneficial to reduce it. It would also be good to knock the E2 down a bit, but since you are not taking any exogenous testosterone I'd be very very careful about any AI dose. A little might go a long way. You don't want to crash E2 or you'll be in a world of hurt.
Have you thought about TRT?
You are best off seeing an endo, and somebody different from before. Failing that if you want amateur advice, I would try a HPTA restart protocol. It would be fairly inexpensive, and quick to let you know if it worked or not. As we spoke about the HCG in the front part of the protocol might not be necessary, but no harm in doing it. You could try 1,000 HCG IU per day for 10 days, then clomid at 50 mg/day for six weeks plus nolva 40 mg/day for 3 weeks, then 20 mg/day for last 3 weeks.
Did you mention your body fat % above, if so I missed it. I'm curious about the high ish E2, and you mentioned gyno. If you've got high body fat it would be hugely beneficial to reduce it. It would also be good to knock the E2 down a bit, but since you are not taking any exogenous testosterone I'd be very very careful about any AI dose. A little might go a long way. You don't want to crash E2 or you'll be in a world of hurt.
Have you thought about TRT?
Thanks brother for your quick replies , I am searching for a good endo . I will see if I can find a good one . If I don't feel confident in the endo, I might try the restart protocol you mentioned . I am just worried that I don't want to further hurt my system and make it worse .
Bro, Do you think if I try this protocol and while I am on it I might feel good and everything but do you think after finishing the restart it can go even worse than this ?
Also , I haven't checked my fat % in a long time since i am really not physically active these days . Almost a year back I was around 11 . I recently tried adex @0.25 EOD and I think that was a fine dosage for me .
I really don't want to get on try right now brother .
scorob777
New member
Seems to me like you have two choices - find a good endo and do what he says, or try to fix things yourself.
Also seems to me like you need to get yourself back into shape. You mentioned little physical activity, and gyno, and you have high E2 relative to everything else. Those things scream that you need to start working out and eat clean. Just doing that should boost your test somewhat.
The only thing I can suggest is the HPTA restart protocol described earlier. I don't see any downside to trying it, i.e. it won't make you worse, and it is pretty cheap and you'll know in less than 2 months if it worked or not. It if doesn't work your only two options then are TRT either self or doctor administered, or finding a good endo and trying to sort out your HPTA.
Regarding the adex, 0.25mg EOD would be enough for taking a cycle of 500 mg/wk test. If you take that now with low natural test production I think you would crash your E2 and end up worse off. If you want to take it at all I'd suggest 1/4 of that dose for a few weeks to knock the E2 levels down somewhat, then drop it and try that HPTA restart.
Also seems to me like you need to get yourself back into shape. You mentioned little physical activity, and gyno, and you have high E2 relative to everything else. Those things scream that you need to start working out and eat clean. Just doing that should boost your test somewhat.
The only thing I can suggest is the HPTA restart protocol described earlier. I don't see any downside to trying it, i.e. it won't make you worse, and it is pretty cheap and you'll know in less than 2 months if it worked or not. It if doesn't work your only two options then are TRT either self or doctor administered, or finding a good endo and trying to sort out your HPTA.
Regarding the adex, 0.25mg EOD would be enough for taking a cycle of 500 mg/wk test. If you take that now with low natural test production I think you would crash your E2 and end up worse off. If you want to take it at all I'd suggest 1/4 of that dose for a few weeks to knock the E2 levels down somewhat, then drop it and try that HPTA restart.
jp4355
New member
To Addy:
I'm a bit late to this thread, but some good advice so far.
Wanted to ask about your Diet, as a Poor Diet, with lots of Sugar/Wheat/Soy/Alcohol, will increase your Estradiol.
There are foods that will increase your Natty Test.
Like Whole Eggs/Olive Oil/Coconut Oil/Tuna/Salmon, just to name a few.
So this is something to take a Hard Look at.
And you definitely need to become more active.
Start Slow ~ take a Walk after you have dinner, and every week, increase the distance.
Then start doing some Body-Weight Work.
This will get you back into the Gym.............................. JP
P.S.
Also, supplementing with Vitamin D and Zinc will help boost your Test.
I'm a bit late to this thread, but some good advice so far.
Wanted to ask about your Diet, as a Poor Diet, with lots of Sugar/Wheat/Soy/Alcohol, will increase your Estradiol.
There are foods that will increase your Natty Test.
Like Whole Eggs/Olive Oil/Coconut Oil/Tuna/Salmon, just to name a few.
So this is something to take a Hard Look at.
And you definitely need to become more active.
Start Slow ~ take a Walk after you have dinner, and every week, increase the distance.
Then start doing some Body-Weight Work.
This will get you back into the Gym.............................. JP
P.S.
Also, supplementing with Vitamin D and Zinc will help boost your Test.
So I just came back after meeting another endo and I discussed with him everything . In the end he has asked me to try adex for 2 months to try controlling my E2 which in turn might make my TT to go up a bit .
He said try adex for 2 months and then get the tests done again and if required we can then add some clomid to it and try that for around 6 months .
Bro I took adex 0.25 recently and my E2 got under control . I mean it didn't crash like crazy . But back then it was higher than what it is right now . It will be hard to cut down the tablet further than that . I get like 1 mg tab and I cut it in 4 .
Hi bro , thank you so much for putting in your advise . It's always helpful . Yes in red to start exercising again and work on my diet .
i have started vit. D @ 60,000 IU/ week . I don't know about zinc . Do I need to test my zinc levels before taking it or can I start it without it ?
Thank you brother .
scorob777
New member
There is no surety anything will work. Taking AI to knock down your E2 hoping it might boost TT - that might take you from an F student to a D student. Does that align with your goals?
Clomid only, I've seen some people post impressive gains in T levels from that, I have no idea if they would be of a lasting sort.
Clomid only, I've seen some people post impressive gains in T levels from that, I have no idea if they would be of a lasting sort.
True bro , even I have got good results with 25 mg EOD with clomid . I had reached a good number of TT when I was on it . But after getting off of it I get back to where I am .
His reason of not asking me to take both adex and clomid together was that he said if taking one medicine only I.e. Adex with a low dose to control the E2 which will stop the conversion and might boost my TT then why go for two medicines .
Which i don't mind trying and if that doesn't work I can always go for clomid and adex right ? So if you think I can give just adex a try and see how it goes then I can try that ? What do you think ?
Thanks bro.
Mycelium
New member
By lowering estrogen the body had to produce more. It starts from the brain and ends with Testoserone s being aromatized. Lower estrogen will raise test but it depends on lots of variable. Hypothalamus, pituitary, testicles, aromatase and other things. If your hypothalamus is lagging low estrogen will just stay low. If it's your testicles not responding and making test it will stay low.
The benefit of Clomid and Nolva is they don't lower estrogen directly. They just tell your system its low. Basically filing a false report with your system. Hooking onto a receptor but doing nothing and it blocking estrogen from flipping the switch.
I've never crashed mine but reports of people who have seem worse than the highest estrogen I've had.
The benefit of Clomid and Nolva is they don't lower estrogen directly. They just tell your system its low. Basically filing a false report with your system. Hooking onto a receptor but doing nothing and it blocking estrogen from flipping the switch.
I've never crashed mine but reports of people who have seem worse than the highest estrogen I've had.
scorob777
New member
Seems to me like your doc is taking a slow & conservative approach. I think that's probably pretty standard as most believe your body will reset itself given enough time.
I just question if knowing what you know, if a conservative approach is the best way. I'm more of a brute force kind of person, I think once you identify the problem then you hit it with a sledge hammer. I have the patience of a f***t fly, so for me fucking around for six months to find out what I already know is not a very tempting plan. And then knowing the Plan B is messing around with a SERM monotherapy for a few more months (again something tried before) is not appealing.
Mycelium
New member
The difference between primary and secondary hypogonadoism. Ones your hypothalamus and pituitary. The other is testicles. Google them for a better explanation.
The hypothalamus pituitary testicle axis. . . ? . . . Our bodies use estrogen levels to give a signal to the hypothalamus to stop sending it's signal to the pituitary to stop making LH and FSH.
Aromatase inhibitors stop estrogen production.
Nolva and Clomid attach to estrogen receptors but don't activate them. Blocking estrogen from activating them.
I always go to Google to learn more. It can be hard finding info on the boards with the search function sometimes.
The hypothalamus pituitary testicle axis. . . ? . . . Our bodies use estrogen levels to give a signal to the hypothalamus to stop sending it's signal to the pituitary to stop making LH and FSH.
Aromatase inhibitors stop estrogen production.
Nolva and Clomid attach to estrogen receptors but don't activate them. Blocking estrogen from activating them.
I always go to Google to learn more. It can be hard finding info on the boards with the search function sometimes.