Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
Lol Dre the guy is clearly a troll, plus being perceived to be arrogant isn't a bad thing: Lyle McDonald & Layne Norton both have it, be proud of being associated with "arrogant" gurus 
Water Obsession - Do you really need so much water?
- Thread starter dznutzxxx
- Start date
DreDay187
Beast666 FanClub Pres
Lol Dre the guy is clearly a troll, plus being perceived to be arrogant isn't a bad thing: Lyle McDonald & Layne Norton both have it, be proud of being associated with "arrogant" gurus
In that case
View attachment 556587
Interesting.
Ripped and Dre, just in case this wasn't obvious, I respect both of you and am interested in your opinions.
The only topic where we disagreed thus far, was diet pop. And all I did, was share some personal experience and adding a comment that because of said experience I'll steer clear of diet pop from here on out.
YOU GUYS, took that statement and blew it way out of proportion, telling me that I was full of shit and aspartame is the best thing since sliced bread.
Agree to disagree on that one.
As for the Yoda meme, I find it humorous.
Furthermore, just last night Dre told me he'd be forever grateful I got him to finally go to sleep...
What ever happened to that? LOL
Me a troll? Nope.
Learned a lot on here and like it or not, I get along well with plenty of members.
Thou shall not anger thy nutrition Nazis.
Note taken.
Ripped and Dre, just in case this wasn't obvious, I respect both of you and am interested in your opinions.
The only topic where we disagreed thus far, was diet pop. And all I did, was share some personal experience and adding a comment that because of said experience I'll steer clear of diet pop from here on out.
YOU GUYS, took that statement and blew it way out of proportion, telling me that I was full of shit and aspartame is the best thing since sliced bread.
Agree to disagree on that one.
As for the Yoda meme, I find it humorous.
Furthermore, just last night Dre told me he'd be forever grateful I got him to finally go to sleep...
What ever happened to that? LOL
Me a troll? Nope.
Learned a lot on here and like it or not, I get along well with plenty of members.
Thou shall not anger thy nutrition Nazis.
Note taken.
Megatron28
Moderator
Don't forget that on average, 20% of the water we take in comes from the food we eat. For example, an apple or yogurt are both about 85% water.
DreDay187
Beast666 FanClub Pres
I am grateful for the idea but now you're blowing things out of proportion. You relayed your experience with it which wasn't good. That's fine cool and dandy. The tone and framing in your post though made it sound like aspartame was the devil incarnate. That is how the both of us took it so it wasn't just one person. I never said it's a GREAT thing to have, I simply said it's not a BAD thing to have (unless you are one of the very few who may have a reaction to it). Like one of my examples I gave yesterday, I know someone who is allergic to water. If I worded my post "he is allergic to that crap" and "never again"; basically substitute water into your post. Would you not think I was trying to say water is bad for everyone or mislead everyone into thinking water is bad bc of the framing? I did and so did Zilla.
I took it as a jab and responded as such. I found the Einstein meme pretty funny too. It was the first I've seen it but will add to my collection now lol.
You're nutrition nazi comment is another underhanded jab whether you realize it or not, just like my comment about probability. Neither liked it so let's both decide to quit it
I'd love to, but I can't let this one go just yet, for the simple reason that I have to validate my source's credibility before accepting their statements in my "quest for knowledge".
Here is my predicament. Both you and Ripped seem smart and display reasonable erudition on the topics of BB and nutrition.
BUT, if you honestly advise people to use diet pop on a cut to fight cravings, I just can't take you seriously any longer.
Here's why:
A can of diet pop, may not violate any macros for either a bulk or a cutting cycle (d'uh, it doesn't have any nutrients), but there is more to nutrition than just macros.
There are numerous studies by various Universities across the globe, that suggest the possibility of diet pop posing a health risk.
Some of them, regarding aspartame, yes. But let's not even go there, as we don't have to.
Let's just look at some simple facts. No speculation here. Facts.
- Diet pop has a very low ph (not pro hormone in this case LOL) rating of around 3.5.
- Acidic liquids ingested orally are bad for your enamel.
So, diet pop is bad for your teeth. Fact.
Now, let's take a look at some other aspects, this time a little more speculative.
There are numerous studies out there, that suggest that Aluminum deposits in the brain may be directly related to Alzheimer's disease.
Now, I don't have a statistic on hand to verify this, but I would claim, that a fair amount of pop is still being consumed from Aluminum cans.
Remember the part about diet pop being acidic? Yes, there is a chance that drinking diet pop from a can can give you Alzheimer's.
Having a case in my family, I can assure that that's something you do not want.
Now, as with everything, one has to make a risk vs. reward assessment prior to making choices or decisions.
Let's look at the risk / reward of diet pop:
Risks:
Bad for your teeth.
Potentially an Alzheimer's disease risk if consumed from a can.
Potentially a contributor to kidney problems.
Potentially linked to metabolic diseases.
...
...
Rewards:
Tastes sweet, and therefore helps fighting cravings.
Now, can we think of anything else that tastes sweet and helps satisfy cravings?
Yes - an Apple.
Which does also contain a lot of water, fiber, vitamins, pectin and fructose.
So, with all that said, can you seriously suggest to anyone to use diet pop as a cravings fighter?
Here is my predicament. Both you and Ripped seem smart and display reasonable erudition on the topics of BB and nutrition.
BUT, if you honestly advise people to use diet pop on a cut to fight cravings, I just can't take you seriously any longer.
Here's why:
A can of diet pop, may not violate any macros for either a bulk or a cutting cycle (d'uh, it doesn't have any nutrients), but there is more to nutrition than just macros.
There are numerous studies by various Universities across the globe, that suggest the possibility of diet pop posing a health risk.
Some of them, regarding aspartame, yes. But let's not even go there, as we don't have to.
Let's just look at some simple facts. No speculation here. Facts.
- Diet pop has a very low ph (not pro hormone in this case LOL) rating of around 3.5.
- Acidic liquids ingested orally are bad for your enamel.
So, diet pop is bad for your teeth. Fact.
Now, let's take a look at some other aspects, this time a little more speculative.
There are numerous studies out there, that suggest that Aluminum deposits in the brain may be directly related to Alzheimer's disease.
Now, I don't have a statistic on hand to verify this, but I would claim, that a fair amount of pop is still being consumed from Aluminum cans.
Remember the part about diet pop being acidic? Yes, there is a chance that drinking diet pop from a can can give you Alzheimer's.
Having a case in my family, I can assure that that's something you do not want.
Now, as with everything, one has to make a risk vs. reward assessment prior to making choices or decisions.
Let's look at the risk / reward of diet pop:
Risks:
Bad for your teeth.
Potentially an Alzheimer's disease risk if consumed from a can.
Potentially a contributor to kidney problems.
Potentially linked to metabolic diseases.
...
...
Rewards:
Tastes sweet, and therefore helps fighting cravings.
Now, can we think of anything else that tastes sweet and helps satisfy cravings?
Yes - an Apple.
Which does also contain a lot of water, fiber, vitamins, pectin and fructose.
So, with all that said, can you seriously suggest to anyone to use diet pop as a cravings fighter?
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Megatron28
Moderator
So you will put gobs of hormones from an UGL in your body, but aspartame is where you draw the line? Seems a little hypocritical.
For the record, I don't drink diet pop. Can't stand the chemical aftertaste.
DreDay187
Beast666 FanClub Pres
I would love to see this risk vs reward matrix when just the other day, a PH user was sent to the ER with jaundice at a hospital a family member of mine works for. I'd love to see this risk vs reward matrix when a PH has been able to completely and permanently shutdown the HPTA and diet soda does what? Ruin your teeth?
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Rida5d
city of the sun
So is it ok on a bulk ?
U got corrected cuz the way u formed your post. U gave the impression that sodas can get u in a real health risk , which is not true.. And u generalized it.
Teeth issues? Even orange juice or vitamin c mixed into water can give u teeth prob..
I assure u , if I ll stop eating everything that (might) cause cancer, I'll end up eating air and broccoli
Did you happen to read post number 26?
So is it ok on a bulk ?
U got corrected cuz the way u formed your post. U gave the impression that sodas can get u in a real health risk , which is not true.. And u generalized it.
Teeth issues? Even orange juice or vitamin c mixed into water can give u teeth prob..
I assure u , if I ll stop eating everything that (might) cause cancer, I'll end up eating air and broccoli
Based on it's macros - yes.
Based on all the other substances in it that don't show up as nutrients, I would not.
Yes, orange juice is acidic as well, however, it comes with benefits to offset that fact.
Unlike pop, which does not.
Southernfish
New member
So is it ok on a bulk ?
U got corrected cuz the way u formed your post. U gave the impression that sodas can get u in a real health risk , which is not true.. And u generalized it.
Teeth issues? Even orange juice or vitamin c mixed into water can give u teeth prob..
I assure u , if I ll stop eating everything that (might) cause cancer, I'll end up eating air and broccoli
Pretty sure both of those will give it too lol.
DreDay187
Beast666 FanClub Pres
I'd love to, but I can't let this one go just yet, for the simple reason that I have to validate my source's credibility before accepting their statements in my "quest for knowledge".
Here is my predicament. Both you and Ripped seem smart and display reasonable erudition on the topics of BB and nutrition.
BUT, if you honestly advise people to use diet pop on a cut to fight cravings, I just can't take you seriously any longer.
Im not bothered by the fact you don't take me seriously, although in your other thread you seemed to be thanking me for help I gave you. Did you take that seriously or is it just on nutrition now? Is it just on diet coke?
I didn't mention using it to fight any cravings so I won't comment on that but I did say if you like it drink it, it will not affect your body composition in the least. If you have a reaction to it don't drink it. It's that simple.
Here's why:
A can of diet pop, may not violate any macros for either a bulk or a cutting cycle (d'uh, it doesn't have any nutrients), but there is more to nutrition than just macros.
There are numerous studies by various Universities across the globe, that suggest the possibility of diet pop posing a health risk.
Thats just it... THEY SUGGEST A POSSIBILITY of health risks but NONE HAVE BEEN SHOWN WITH CAUSE AND EFFECT. They are correlation all studies, studies where p>.05 (which means there's a likelihood the results WERE FOUND BY CHANCE). They have not even shown association from anything I've seen (studies that actually have applicability). If you have a study to reference do so otherwise you are basing your logic on the vain hope that future research MAY prove your point. I'd rather stick to the facts we now instead of what may or may not be proven in the future. Hell, I know a few porn stars I wouldn't mind getting with, maybe one day i will get that chance
Some of them, regarding aspartame, yes. But let's not even go there, as we don't have to.
Let's just look at some simple facts. No speculation here. Facts.
- Diet pop has a very low ph (not pro hormone in this case LOL) rating of around 3.5.
- Acidic liquids ingested orally are bad for your enamel.
So, diet pop is bad for your teeth. Fact.
Another FACT is that sugar is bad for the enamel on your teeth, regular coke has plenty of sugar. So is it the diet coke or regular coke you're advising against? You make no mention of avoiding regular soda. Coffee is acidic and many people put sugar in that? Where's your condemnation of coffee drinkers?
Let's take a look at a small list of common drinks that are more acidic than diet coke:
Gatorade® 2.9 5
Sunkist® Orange Soda 2.9 13
Dr. Pepper 2.9 10
Vault™ Energy Soda 2.9 12
Mountain Dew AMP1 2.8 11
SoBe Energy Citrus 2.6 12
Minute Maid® Lemonade 2.6 10
^^^according to your logic, you will have to adjust your stance to include these drinks as well.
Now, let's take a look at some other aspects, this time a little more speculative.
There are numerous studies out there, that suggest that Aluminum deposits in the brain may be directly related to Alzheimer's disease.
Now, I don't have a statistic on hand to verify this, but I would claim, that a fair amount of pop is still being consumed from Aluminum cans.
Remember the part about diet pop being acidic? Yes, there is a chance that drinking diet pop from a can can give you Alzheimer's.
Having a case in my family, I can assure that that's something you do not want.
creatine and NAC I believe have been shown to help with Alzheimer's, all the more reason to supplement with them.
Now you have a valid point, aluminum salts are LINKED to Alzheimer's but again no cause and effect relationship has been proven. This is another example of reaching a conclusion before all the evidence is in. Did you know Mylanta (an antacid) contains twice the amount if aluminum than what's consumed through soda cans? Not to mention you didn't condemn every acidic canned drink....only diet soda. Weird I know. Let's look at other ways to avoid aluminum:
"According to the Nutrition Almanac, "Trace amounts of aluminum applied to the brain surface of animals resulted in seizures and fits. Other studies demonstrated that aluminum salts injected into the fluid surrounding the brain produced changes that are similar to those occurring in senile dementia. In further animal studies, cats given aluminum became slow learners at experimental tasks. The level of aluminum in the cats’ brains was equivalent to the amount in the brains of persons who have a type of senility called Alzheimer’s disease."
Some of the more common sources of "avoidable" aluminum:
1) cooking utensils—aluminum pots, teflon pans and foil-wrapped foods;
2) beverages in aluminum cans – the phosphoric acid in soft drinks leaches aluminum from the walls of the can;
3) added as an anti-caking agent to salt and sugar;
4) baking powder;
5) antiperspirants;
6) bleaching agent in white flour;
7) used as an emulsifier in some processed cheeses;
8) cake mixes, self-rising flour and frozen dough;
9) commercial teas;
10) toothpaste, sunscreen, lotions, powders/talcs and cosmetics;
11) infant formulas – soy formulas contain 10 times more aluminum than milk based formulas;
12) cigarette filters;
13) anti-acids, buffered aspirin and many other over-the-counter medications;
14) occupational—welding and smelting and;
15) vaccines.
Aluminum in consumer drugs is a huge problem. According to the Leading Edge Research Group, "aspirin is commonly buffered with aluminum hydroxide, aluminum glycinate and other aluminum compounds. Vaginal douches contain potassium aluminum sulfate, ammonium aluminum sulfate, and alum. Antacids contain aluminum hydroxide, magaldrate, dihydroxyaluminum, and aluminum oxide. Antidiarrheal drugs contain aluminum magnesium silicate and kaolin, an aluminum salt."
Better stay away from that toothpaste and vaginal douching if you're worried about aluminum bro. That anti-perspiration on your underarm has on average what, 15-20% aluminum? Do you cook with wooden utensils? If not the metal ones contain aluminum and if you know your chemistry you'd know aluminum is highly reactive with heat. Aluminum could very well be in all your food! And finally cake mixes. Goddam now I cannot eat a cake from a box? I hope this doesn't extend to brownies too (my personal fav).
Now, as with everything, one has to make a risk vs. reward assessment prior to making choices or decisions.
Let's look at the risk / reward of diet pop:
Risks:
Bad for your teeth.
Potentially an Alzheimer's disease risk if consumed from a can.
Potentially a contributor to kidney problems.
Potentially linked to metabolic diseases.
...
...
Rewards:
Tastes sweet, and therefore helps fighting cravings.
Now, can we think of anything else that tastes sweet and helps satisfy cravings?
Yes - an Apple.
Which does also contain a lot of water, fiber, vitamins, pectin and fructose.
So, with all that said, can you seriously suggest to anyone to use diet pop as a cravings fighter?
So the same argument you made against diet pop could be made for toothpaste, antacid, antiperspirant, orange juice, Gatorade, cake mixes, etc. Did you do your risk vs reward matrix for each of these products?
To be quite frank with you, I wouldn't trust any risk vs reward matrix you made. You can justify the use of a pro hormone that has been shown to have serious health consequences, WITH CAUSE AND EFFECT RELATIONSHIPS I MIGHT ADD, NOT ASSOCIATIONS OR POSSIBILITIES but you demonize diet coke to the point we are still going on about this days and threads later.
What's really happening is you have an illogical/unscientific fear of diet soda you wish to project on the rest of the population. You also have an illogical/unscientific desire to run pro hormones. Your recommendations and advise are based on your PREFERENCES and you cherry pick information that suits your views. This isn't science or logical, it's ass backwards and biased.
You're example of an apple is a red herring. Soda is a drink, an apple is a food/solid. If I was thirsty and wanted something to DRINK yI certainly wouldn't EAT an apple. Personally I drink water and rarely anything else anyway. I don't drink diet soda (hate the taste) and only drink soda occasionally. My cravings are for water as weird as that sounds and im perfectly happy drinking 1-2gallons of it a day. I don't go around condemning those that don't drink as much water as me or those who prefer diet coke though.
So, with all that said, can you seriously sit there and only condemn diet soda and not toothpaste too? I suggest using diet soda as a form of hydration if you like drinking it within moderation yes. Whether you use it to fight cravings or not is irrelevant as that's only one benefit and neglects the personal preference factor which has a high impact on consistency. The same reason I recommend eating when you want and is convenient whether it's 2 meals a day or 8. The convenience and personal satisfaction factor is what you are sugar coating (no pun intended). It plays a more pivotal role to succes in nutrition than you're willing to give it credit for.
Ps. You began the fact portion of your post by saying diet soda is 3.5 pH and acidic liquids are especially bad for the teeth. Ironically apples have a high concentration of liquid in them and have a pH of between 3 and 4. You contradicted your own self with that example which makes me question your objectivity and actual knowledge of the topics at hand
View attachment 556603
^^^ source? Columbia University Health Services Division.
And this is a prime example of why science is important. It removes the subjectivity from one's personal views and remains objective. Science doesn't fear monger and spread irrational viewpoints.
Now we are getting somewhere.
That's the kind of response I was hoping for.
Now we have an actual discussion.
Lets see...
My comment about you recommending diet pop to fight cravings may not have been 100% accurate.
It was Matt who said it first I think, you however condoned it.
The list of acidic drinks was interesting.
Gatorade® 2.9 5
Sunkist® Orange Soda 2.9 13
Dr. Pepper 2.9 10
Vault***8482; Energy Soda 2.9 12
Mountain Dew AMP1 2.8 11
SoBe Energy Citrus 2.6 12
Minute Maid® Lemonade 2.6 10
Jup, all of those are shit and don't belong in a healthy diet (IMHO).
So yes, according to my logic all these are bad for you. Do you disagree?
Glad to see you consider my Alzheimer's point valid.
The list you posted has a few items on it, that I did not know about. Thanks for that.
Some of the more common sources of "avoidable" aluminum:
1) cooking utensils***8212;aluminum pots, teflon pans and foil-wrapped foods; Don't use either. Glass and Stainless baby.
2) beverages in aluminum cans ***8211; the phosphoric acid in soft drinks leaches aluminum from the walls of the can; Avoid them whenever I can.
3) added as an anti-caking agent to salt and sugar; Need to look into this! Most salt I use is the chunky sea salt variety you grind, so my guess is I'm good...
4) baking powder; Worth looking into, thanks!
5) antiperspirants; Tom's deodorant for me, thanks.
6) bleaching agent in white flour; Hardly use any, but will definitely investigate further.
7) used as an emulsifier in some processed cheeses; This one actually worries me a bit, do you have more info?
8) cake mixes, self-rising flour and frozen dough; Obviously don't use these, come on...
9) commercial teas; Not the ones I use to my knowledge
10) toothpaste, sunscreen, lotions, powders/talcs and cosmetics; Didn't know about tooth paste, isn't this only true for the bleaching kind???
11) infant formulas ***8211; soy formulas contain 10 times more aluminum than milk based formulas; Phew, dodged a bullet there.
12) cigarette filters; I don't smoke in case you haven't guessed that.
13) anti-acids, buffered aspirin and many other over-the-counter medications; Don't use the first 2 and the 3rd hardly ever.
14) occupational***8212;welding and smelting and; My motorsport addiction is probably not the healthiest... oh well.
15) vaccines. None for me thanks.
Also, I don't douche my vagina as often as you may think...
Yes, lots of other substances are bad for you as well, but we didn't discuss baking mixes, we discussed diet pop
Also, pro-hormones do have health risks. They do. No doubt about it.
However, as a law abiding individual you are limited to using them over injectables due to the infinite wisdom of our government...
With that said, the side effects are known and when used responsibly can be kept to a minimum.
There will always be a risk, but unlike the risks associated with consumables such as cigarettes, diet pop and other junk food, there are actual REWARDS as well. Each individual has to assess whether or not that balance justifies the use of any gives substance.
For me, PHs are a go. I don't just pop 'em like candy without any research though and go out partying and binge drinking, I would like to think of myself as a responsible individual.
If you are genuinely interested in a list of the risks and rewards of PHs (namely Halodrol) I could type one up.
Let me know.
As far as the diet pop discussion goes, let's summarize it in one last statement. A question actually.
What do you consider a healthier cravings quencher? A can of pop, or an apple?
Megatron28
Moderator
Seriously. When did drinking water become so damn controversial? Drink as much or as little as your want. Just don't get dehydrated or water poisoning.
Mrrippedzilla
MIA - PM only
Now we are getting somewhere.
That's the kind of response I was hoping for.
Now we have an actual discussion.
As far as the diet pop discussion goes, let's summarize it in one last statement. A question actually.
What do you consider a healthier cravings quencher? A can of pop, or an apple?
I'm going to keep this simple since I already provided CONCLUSIVE evidence that diet soda is completely safe in Matt's thread.
If your eating an apple to cut cravings your compromising your cut because it contains CALORIES, your point is completely invalid because of this. I've seen people wipe out small caloric deficits with 3 healthy apples.
The fact that you would even suggest this makes me believe you have no idea what it takes to get shredded (8%bf or below) and stay there.
The only valid point you've raised is that diet soda is bad for your teeth - I concede that.
As for the points you raised about aluminium cans, I'm not even going to waste my energy on the subject.
You realise that gaining the amount of muscle that IFBB pros do is detrimental to your health?
You realise that cutting to very low body fat levels can be detrimental to your health?
You realise the training & other aspects of what professional athletes do are detrimental to their health?
Do you realise that all 3 of these things are more detrimental to your health than diet coke?
Diet coke helps people address cravings & has been proven to be safe for long term consumption (again see matts thread).
You not being able to accept this simply confirms my view of you as a troll
Side note: I could slap a bunch of scientific references AGAIN on your ass but I know it would be a waste of time with someone like you.
So if anyone wants proof that diet soda is safe for long term consumption, simply PM me for references.
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DreDay187
Beast666 FanClub Pres
.Now we are getting somewhere.
That's the kind of response I was hoping for.
Now we have an actual discussion.
Lets see...
My comment about you recommending diet pop to fight cravings may not have been 100% accurate.
It was Matt who said it first I think, you however condoned it.
the point remains, it can fight cravings and when used in moderation is quite safe. Safer than Gatorade when using your train of thought.
The list of acidic drinks was interesting.
Gatorade® 2.9 5
Sunkist® Orange Soda 2.9 13
Dr. Pepper 2.9 10
Vault***8482; Energy Soda 2.9 12
Mountain Dew AMP1 2.8 11
SoBe Energy Citrus 2.6 12
Minute Maid® Lemonade 2.6 10
Jup, all of those are shit and don't belong in a healthy diet (IMHO).
So yes, according to my logic all these are bad for you. Do you disagree?
i agree they're unhealthy according to your logic but I also strenuously state YOUR LOGIC IS FLAWED, BIASED, UNSCIENTIFIC, AND ONE-SIDED. So in a way, No I don't agree. A healthy diet is one that fills your nutritional needs (calories, macros, micros, etc) while remaining a diet that you can be consistent with. You cannot be consistent on a diet you hate. If you love diet soda drink it. Just don't drink 12cans a day. You miss the point of moderation. We are not making fallacies of appealing to an extreme here. You them fill those needs with foods you enjoy eating and drinks you enjoy drinking (alcohol maybe am exception since lack of sobriety can affect many things but again, there's that pesky thing called moderation.
Glad to see you consider my Alzheimer's point valid.
The list you posted has a few items on it, that I did not know about. Thanks for that.
Some of the more common sources of "avoidable" aluminum:
1) cooking utensils***8212;aluminum pots, teflon pans and foil-wrapped foods; Don't use either. Glass and Stainless baby.
2) beverages in aluminum cans ***8211; the phosphoric acid in soft drinks leaches aluminum from the walls of the can; Avoid them whenever I can.
3) added as an anti-caking agent to salt and sugar; Need to look into this! Most salt I use is the chunky sea salt variety you grind, so my guess is I'm good...
4) baking powder; Worth looking into, thanks!
5) antiperspirants; Tom's deodorant for me, thanks.
6) bleaching agent in white flour; Hardly use any, but will definitely investigate further.
7) used as an emulsifier in some processed cheeses; This one actually worries me a bit, do you have more info?
8) cake mixes, self-rising flour and frozen dough; Obviously don't use these, come on...
9) commercial teas; Not the ones I use to my knowledge
10) toothpaste, sunscreen, lotions, powders/talcs and cosmetics; Didn't know about tooth paste, isn't this only true for the bleaching kind???
11) infant formulas ***8211; soy formulas contain 10 times more aluminum than milk based formulas; Phew, dodged a bullet there.
12) cigarette filters; I don't smoke in case you haven't guessed that.
13) anti-acids, buffered aspirin and many other over-the-counter medications; Don't use the first 2 and the 3rd hardly ever.
14) occupational***8212;welding and smelting and; My motorsport addiction is probably not the healthiest... oh well.
15) vaccines. None for me thanks.
Also, I don't douche my vagina as often as you may think...
Yes, lots of other substances are bad for you as well, but we didn't discuss baking mixes, we discussed diet pop
I agree it's valid yes but if you see I also said it's LINKED not PROVEN. THERE IS STILL much research to be done on this topic so again making absolute claims is putting the cart before the horse.
I douche my vagina regularly, keeps the smells at bay...usually.
You're welcome for the list. There are plenty more but that was am easily accessible one and I just used it to prove a point. Aluminum is everywhere. Limiting your exposure to it may or may not benefit you. It depends on how the research (as yet unfinished) turns out and your current exposure to it. If you truly do avoid aluminum in most of the things on the list, why would you worry about a single one? It's like the Germaphobe who won't leave the house bc of germs, neglecting the fact many germs are beneficial and necessary and exposure to daily germs hasmt killed or hurt the reminding 7,000,000,000 ppl on this planet.
We did discuss diet pop, I simply used these as example for a continuation of your logic. If you make a claim that's absolute, it must be correct absolutely and in every scenario. These were examples to show otherwise. If aluminum is indeed a cause of Alzheimer's than all these examples would have higher populations of people with Alzheimer's. Last I heard, those who use antacids daily to treat severe heart burn didn't suddenly develop an Alzheimer's epidemic.
Also, pro-hormones do have health risks. They do. No doubt about it.
However, as a law abiding individual you are limited to using them over injectables due to the infinite wisdom of our government...
Point taken. Have you ever been known to go over the speed limit? Do you always stop completely at stop signs? Do you always wear your seat belt? Have you ever had one too many and tried to drive home afterwards? Have you ever forgotten the car seat for your kid at the parents house? There are a million other examples we can toss out...the point is EVERYONE picks and chooses which laws to follow. No one follows every law all the time. So to that end, if you are not willing to use injectable steroids bc they are illegal, neither should you use pro hormones (just bc they are legal) bc they cause more damage to the body than the diet coke you condemn. Your logic is once again sporadic, absolute, yet illogical.
With that said, the side effects are known and when used responsibly can be kept to a minimum.
There will always be a risk, but unlike the risks associated with consumables such as cigarettes, diet pop and other junk food, there are actual REWARDS as well. Each individual has to assess whether or not that balance justifies the use of any gives substance.
For me, PHs are a go. I don't just pop 'em like candy without any research though and go out partying and binge drinking, I would like to think of myself as a responsible individual.
this is an individualistic aspect, basically what Zilla and I have been telling you from the jump. You attempted to turn it into a blanket statement though which is where we take issue. Matt has decided the risk vs reward is perfectly fine for him. Who are you to tell him his rewards are of no value? Just like you believe PH's hold value to you, which I've told you for me they don't, have I FORCED my beliefs onto you or did I make my thoughts clear to you and let you make your own decision?
I myself am a smoker. Do I know the inherent dangers, you betcha. Am I addicted and not attempting to quit you bet. Have I accepted the risks while enjoying the rewards (eases stress, relieves an oral fixation please no gay jokes here lol, etc...yes I have. I've come to terms I don't want to live to be 80yo so if the smoking kills me at 65, I don't personally care. This is my own personal belief though and who are you to tell me "oh no that's stupid" "what about your family and loved ones" "why do you want to die" etc? I've looked at each side of the argument and reached a conclusion that I keep to myself and not shove down the next persons throat. The bottom line is YOUR risk vs reward matrix shows only taste as a reward. And a weak one at that. YOUR risk vs reward matrix is for YOURSELF AND NO ONE BUT YOU. You tried to fit YOUR matrix on another human being who values things differently from you and took offense when he rejected YOUR perceived pros and cons.
Once again, the results can be had eating 2 meals or eating 8. I prefer fewer others prefer more. Who is right when considering body composition and health markers do not change to any clinically significant degree and in a lot do not change to even a statistically significant degree?
If you are genuinely interested in a list of the risks and rewards of PHs (namely Halodrol) I could type one up.
Let me know.
I'd be interested in seeing what you perceive as benefits and risks but I have no desire to ever run pro hormones. Again this is your risk vs reward list. If it was mine I can guarantee it would be different. Does that make YOU wrong bc you differ from me?
As far as the diet pop discussion goes, let's summarize it in one last statement. A question actually.
What do you consider a healthier cravings quencher? A can of pop, or an apple?
That question is impossible to answer with the information given. You are isolating a single food or drink item. You cannot compare or label foods (minus a very select few like artificial transfats) as good or bad outside the context of the whole diet. I don't know why you'd even consider looking a single food item in isolation when it's the ENTIRE diet that will affect health, body comp, and satiety.
I'll answer your question with another question though:
For the endurance athlete (let's say a Tour de France cyclist): which is a healthier or better option while midway through the race? A piece of broccoli or a can of flat coke?
Let me give you a hint: the endurance athlete requires immediate energy and the spike in glucose levels (let's no debate nutrient timing at this moment) from a can of flat soda will take him further than broccoli. In fact most cyclists prefer flat coke to broccoli during a race. Their WORLD RENOWNED coaches recommend the soda. Why, bc it's what's needed to suit their goals.
But wait a minute broccoli is better than soda...no it's not, not in this case bc as you can see, removing a single food item outside the context of the WHOLE diet and labeling it good/bad, clean/dirty, healthy/unhealthy is like tits on a fat chick...pointless.
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I'm going to keep this simple since I already provided CONCLUSIVE evidence that diet soda is completely safe in Matt's thread.
I have read your links and while they are informative, they are not conclusive. They are - like most things in science - a theory.
If your eating an apple to cut cravings your compromising your cut because it contains CALORIES, your point is completely invalid because of this. I've seen people wipe out small caloric deficits with 3 healthy apples.
The fact that you would even suggest this makes me believe you have no idea what it takes to get shredded (8%bf or below) and stay there.
Yes, apples have nutritional value that needs to be considered. D'uh.
I was at 10%, never lower. WAAAAAY higher now. LOL
I am also convinced that exorbitant apple consumption is the leading cause of obesity in America! [Sarcasm detector goes - BEEP]
The only valid point you've raised is that diet soda is bad for your teeth - I concede that.
As for the points you raised about aluminium cans, I'm not even going to waste my energy on the subject.
Well, like it or not, we agree on something.
You realise that gaining the amount of muscle that IFBB pros do is detrimental to your health?
While correct, it is also incredibly relevant, as at least 90% of forum users are pros. [BEEP]
You realise that cutting to very low body fat levels can be detrimental to your health?
Correct and as relevant for most as above point. [...static...]
You realise the training & other aspects of what professional athletes do are detrimental to their health?
No, absolutely not! All athletes are healthy as horses! [BEEP]
Do you realise that all 3 of these things are more detrimental to your health than diet coke?
I would agree with that assessment, although - again - it is irrelevant for most of us. [...static...]
Diet coke helps people address cravings & has been proven to be safe for long term consumption (again see matts thread).
You not being able to accept this simply confirms my view of you as a troll
If you want to see me as a troll, I can't stop you. Feel free.
Just for the record, I'll run a quick analysis to see if a fuck was given.
Sorry, results came back negative...
Side note: I could slap a bunch of scientific references AGAIN on your ass but I know it would be a waste of time with someone like you.
So if anyone wants proof that diet soda is safe for long term consumption, simply PM me for references.
Dre, I am not going to go point by point on this one, I'll cover the major ones though.
There is scientific evidence, that implies that diet pop may pose a health risk.
I never worded it as an absolute in any post that was part of our serious discussion.
Feel free to browse, you won't find one.
Legal aspects.
Kinda apples and oranges for the most part.
Do I abide all laws? Of course not, no-one does.
However, there are laws that (at least in theory) could bring serious consequences.
Drug abuse falls under that category if you ask me.
Risk vs. Reward.
Yes, these will be individual for every... individual. LOL
You can rationalize anything you want if you just stretch your point hard enough. I am aware of that.
But when it comes to health risks, you seem to only look at this topics in black and white.
Does diet pop cause kidney issues for example? It may. There is data that suggests it potentially could.
You say, that until proven 100%, it does not. What if you are wrong? I like to error on the side of caution, especially if it is pertaining something so trivial and easily avoidable as diet pop / junk food / processed food etc.
If this is illogical to you, then so be it. I think Spock would disagree. LMAO
Smoking.
I am a libertarian. If you want to snort Cocaine, smoke cigarettes, bake weed brownies, make love to willing goats - have at it.
My grandfather died of lung cancer. I have seen his demise, his agony and suffering. It was not a nice way out, let me tell you.
Also, having oral desires as a man doesn't make you gay. Evolution / Creation (depending on which theory you subscribe to) has blessed our race with females that possess plenty of features that lend themselves to oral utilization.
Now, what I would have a problem with, would be if you were going to tell people that smoking is healthy...
After all, the macros are fine, right? LOL
Apples vs. Pop.
After extensive research I have come to the conclusion that an apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Coke for Athletes.
They are after a quick sugar fix to boost their energy.
Coke happens to fit that bill and is convenient.
A cube of glucose would probably do the trick also. No?
With all that said, I want the record to reflect, that I do not consider this an argument, but rather an interesting discussion.
Lots of good info in here.
It's a free country (sort of), so enjoy what ever you want.
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