What causes PERMENANT HPTA shut down??

[inssane]

What causes it?

Not taking time off?
Improper PCT?
Too many cycles even WITH PCT?

What is the most common cause??
Nick

 

[jarbulldog]

i would like to know also

 

[MOjs13]

me 2

 

[Mudge]

I dont know that there is such a thing as permanent, however if ones testicles were in an atrophied state for a very long time, then certainly if one recovered natural T at some point it would not look too spectacular.

 

[jarbulldog]

does that mean on gear fr a long time?

 

[thorsky]

That would mean "on-gear" for a long time without preventative measures. This, IMO, would constitute abuse. If you use intelligently, and take the proper measures (PCT, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), etc) you can cycle forever without killing your HPTA.

 

[StoneColdNTO]

That would mean "on-gear" for a long time without preventative measures. This, IMO, would constitute abuse. If you use intelligently, and take the proper measures (post cycle therapy (pct), Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), etc) you can cycle forever without killing your HPTA.

I have to strongly disagree with that bro........what about guys, who thru natural causes require HRT because they stop producing testosterone ?? post cycle therapy (pct) and HCG are no guarentees that you won't kill your HPTA.

 

[ulter]

There is no answer to that question. I have never heard of anyone being shut down permanently no matter what they used and no matter how long they were on. Every study I have read on the matter shows that all sides of AS use are reversible with the exception of the left ventrical growth(1) IF the person had a health system to begin with.

(1) Are the cardiac effects of anabolic steroid abuse in strength athletes reversible?

Urhausen A, Albers T, Kindermann W.

Institute of Sports and Preventive Medicine, University of Saarland Saarbruecken, Germany. a.urhausen@rz.uni-sb.de

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the reversibility of adverse cardiovascular effects after chronic abuse of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) in athletes. METHODS: Doppler echocardiography and cycle ergometry including measurements of blood pressure at rest and during exercise were undertaken in 32 bodybuilders or powerlifters, including 15 athletes who had not been taking Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) for at least 12 months (ex-users) and 17 currently abusing Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) (users), as well as in 15 anabolic-free weightlifters. RESULTS: Systolic blood pressure was higher in users (mean (SD) 140 (10) mm Hg) than in ex-users (130 (5) mm Hg) (p < 0.05) or weightlifters (125 (10) mm Hg; p < 0.001). Left ventricular muscle mass related to fat-free body mass and the ratio of mean left ventricular wall thickness to internal diameter were not significantly higher in users (3.32 (0.48) g/kg and 42.1 (4.4)%) than in ex-users (3.16 (0.53) g/kg and 40.3 (3.8)%), but were lower in weightlifters (2.43 (0.26) g/kg and 36.5 (4.0)%; p < 0.001). Left ventricular wall thickness related to fat-free body mass was also lower in weightlifters, but did not differ between users and ex-users. Left ventricular wall thickness was correlated with a point score estimating Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) abuse in users (r = 0.49, p < 0.05). In all groups, systolic left ventricular function was within the normal range. The maximum late transmitral Doppler flow velocity (Amax) was higher in users (61 (12) cm/s) and ex-users (60 (12) cm/s) than in weightlifters (50 (9) cm/s; p < 0.05 and p = 0.054). CONCLUSIONS: Several years after discontinuation of anabolic steroid abuse, strength athletes still show a slight concentric left ventricular hypertrophy in comparison with AAS-free strength athletes.

 

[Mudge]

Are you saying that testicular atrophy is reversable if let go for a prolonged period of time?

I know I've seen at least one study of someone being "brought back" after I think it was 3 years, and I think most of us would not push it that much without at least some time off. Meaning LH/FSH/T not neccessarily atrophy which I dont recall mention of at all.

 

[theprofessional]

Wow. Although it has nothing to do with the current topic, it is fascinating. I'm sure StonecoldNTO would agree. We both now have permanent blood pressure issues from not taking precautions early on. I was hoping that in time after being Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) free that the damage would be mitigated. That study does not give much hope, although it does say that the ex-abusers were only 12 months free. A very interesting study indeed. I guess we'll see what happens in 2-3 years.

TP

 

[SWALE]

I have a fair number of patients who have been off Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) for two, even three years--yet never recovered their HPTA. I guess it all depends on what you want to call "permanent". There is no doubt that some Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) users will become permanently hypogonadal.

The problem is that there is no way to tell who, or when, this will happen. Some guys have only done AAS, or PH, once. Others use steroids for years before it does. In the latter case, though, many never did actually recover along the way, and just continued one cycle after another, so it's impossible to tell.

 

[inssane]

Does it in part have to do with poor post cycle therapy (pct)??
I mean I have used Nolva, tribulus, and all that good stuff and would use HCG if I could. I know lots of people don't know what they are doing and don't know what post cycle therapy (pct) is.
Could this contribute or are none of us "immune"
Nick

 

[thorsky]

I have to strongly disagree with that bro........what about guys, who thru natural causes require HRT because they stop producing testosterone ?? post cycle therapy (pct) and HCG are no guarentees that you won't kill your HPTA.

I agree, if natural causes come into play then it's a bit different. My only point is that a man who is not destined to become hypo-gonadal due to natural causes should be able to use carefully and not shut himself down.