What do you think about "Optimal Ranges"

[jomamma007]

Optimal Ranges:
I'm sure this has been posted but I think becoming a sticky could be a great asset to those wondering "Optimal Ranges'.

Of course we know we aren't numbers, we're people.
It's more of how we feel, but using these ranges as a guideline for most, will make it easier for them to find that o' so sweet, sweet spot .

Free Testosterone
Free testosterone blood levels should be at the high-normal of the reference range. We define high-normal range as the upper one third of the reference range. Under no circumstances should free or total testosterone be above the high end of the normal range.

What too often happens is that a standard laboratory "reference range" deceives a man (and his physician) into believing that proper hormone balance exists because the results of a free testosterone test fall within the "normal" range. The following charts show a wide range of so-called "normal" ranges of testosterone for men of various ages. While these normal ranges may reflect population "averages," the objective for most men over age 40 is to be in the upper one-third tes-tosterone range of the 21- to 29-year-old group. Based on the following reference range chart from LabCorp, this means that optimal free testosterone levels should be between 21-26.5 nanogram/dL in aging men.

Total Testosterone
Some men have their total testosterone measured. Standard reference ranges are between 241-827 nanograms/dL for most laboratories. Many older men are below 241. Optimal levels of total testosterone for most men are between 500-827 nanograms/dL. If your levels are lower than 500 nanograms/dL or even a little higher and you still have symptoms, you should check your free testosterone by the Direct (RIA) method.

Estrogen (Sensitive Panel)
Estrogen (measured as estradiol) should be in the mid- to lower-normal range. If estradiol levels are in the upper one-third of the normal reference range, or above the normal reference range, this excessive level of estrogen should be reduced. Labcorp lists a reference range of between 3-70 picogram/mL for estradiol while Quest states a reference range of between 10-50. For optimal health, estradiol should be in the range of 10-30 picogram/mL for a man of any age.

PSA
Under 2.6 ng/mL
(optimal range)
Standard reference range is up to 4, but if your level is persistently 2.6 or above, have a blood test to measure the percentage of free vs. bound PSA and a digital rectal exam to help rule out prostate cancer.

DHEA
400-560 mcg/dL
(optimal range)
For older men, standard DHEA ranges are very low. It is important for men without prostate cancer to restore them to the youthful range (400-560).

DHT
20-50 nanogram/dL
(optimal range)
Reference range is 30-85. DHT is 10 times more androgenic than testosterone and has been implicated in prostate problems and hair loss.

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
Under 30 nanomoles/L
(optimal range)
Reference range is 13-71 nanomole/L. Excessive binding inactivates testosterone (297).




Think Total T range should be higher though

 

[Megatron28]

All labs are different. For example, the Labcorp I go to indicates that the top of the normal range for Total Testosterone is slightly below 1200.

 

[Alpin]

You want my honest answer ?
If one thinks about optimal T and voices it to a GP/Endo you are most assuredly giving them the proof they need to refer you to a psychologist.
Optimal range is what WE strive for.....not what all docs strive for.....lol

 

[jomamma007]

What I ment was what do you think about the recommendations
Free Test upper 1/3 range
20-30 estradiol sensitive
Dhea Top of range
DHT mid range

 

[Medhead]

All labs are different. For example, the Labcorp I go to indicates that the top of the normal range for Total Testosterone is slightly below 1200.

I think his post is about what people's thoughts are on what the "optimal" levels are in our mind, relative to feeling the best we can. Of course all lab "normal" ranges are different, but most are complete bullshit, let alone an indication of what is a healthy/optimum level lol.

Hopefully I can answer your question, for me personally anyway, in a short while as I dial in my trt dose. My doc told me he's fine with 500-600, but since I felt like complete shit at a level of 350, I'm assuming I'll feel a more "optimal" level will be slightly higher.

 

[Megatron28]

Each lab looks at standard deviations and posts its normal ranges based on those standard deviations. One lab's equipment may be older or calibrated differently so it has different average ranges. Picture two bathroom scales. One says you are 200 pounds and the other says you are 207. As long as they both give you consistent readings you can know if you at increasing or decreasing in weight. You can also know how much you weigh in comparison to another person weighed on the same scale. The absolute true number of how much you really weigh is less important now as long as your scale comes with reference ranges.

 

[Medhead]

What you're saying is all find and dandy, but it isn't addressing what I said at all lol. Do you not have any preference for your test levels, as long as they fall in the lab's accepted normal range?

 

[Megatron28]

You said most lab reference ranges are complete bullshit. I think I answered your question as to why I disagree with that statement.

Of course I have a preference on where some of my blood work comes out. But everyone is different. Some guys notice things more than others. Some guys feel like shit when their E2 goes above 17. Others guys don't even notice it when it is at 130.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Staying within reference ranges and feeling good is most important!

 

[legitsrs]

Of course I have a preference on where some of my blood work comes out. But everyone is different. Some guys notice things more than others. Some guys feel like shit when their E2 goes above 17. Others guys don't even notice it when it is at 130.

That doesn't mean that the man who has an E2 level of 130 would not benefit from having it in an optimal range.

You want my honest answer ?
If one thinks about optimal T and voices it to a GP/Endo you are most assuredly giving them the proof they need to refer you to a psychologist.
Optimal range is what WE strive for.....not what all docs strive for.....lol

This is so true, got to watch what you're saying to some doctors or they will definitely think it's in your head even if it isn't.

I think this is a useful thread, a lot of labs have very skewed reference ranges (mine for example was 188-882 for total testosterone in ng/dl).

 

[methos0123]

Reference ranges are based on the population the lab serves...not the instrument.

 

[Alpin]

That doesn't mean that the man who has an E2 level of 130 would not benefit from having it in an optimal range.



This is so true, got to watch what you're saying to some doctors or they will definitely think it's in your head even if it isn't.

I think this is a useful thread, a lot of labs have very skewed reference ranges (mine for example was 188-882 for total testosterone in ng/dl).

I know what I'm talking about. Told my GP I feel like shit when my T levels tank out below 600 ng/dl and he told me to see a psychologist.
Naturally I had labs indicating T levels to back my case up which pissed him off during the time periods I was his patient.

 

[Virginian]

a lot of labs have very skewed reference ranges (mine for example was 188-882 for total testosterone in ng/dl).

I am not sure how labs determine reference ranges, but if they just look at the results from all the tests that they do, then it will be skewed.

I am 71 now. I never had a testosterone measurement until recently when I started to show symptoms of low test. Testosterone measurements are not normally done for young healthy men. They are frequently done when low testosterone levels are suspected. That population group will skew the reference ranges.

 

[Megatron28]

I am not sure how labs determine reference ranges, but if they just look at the results from all the tests that they do, then it will be skewed.

I am 71 now. I never had a testosterone measurement until recently when I started to show symptoms of low test. Testosterone measurements are not normally done for young healthy men. They are frequently done when low testosterone levels are suspected. That population group will skew the reference ranges.

So would all the guys on AAS with a TT of 5000, right?

 

[methos0123]

Reference ranges are based on random "assumed healthy" people of the population they serve... In my labs case, older men. (VA)

 

[Medhead]

You said most lab reference ranges are complete bullshit. I think I answered your question as to why I disagree with that statement.

Of course I have a preference on where some of my blood work comes out. But everyone is different. Some guys notice things more than others. Some guys feel like shit when their E2 goes above 17. Others guys don't even notice it when it is at 130.

When I said most reference ranges are complete bullshit, it was in reference to how doctors interpret them (as in accepting a very low value as normal while disregarding patient symptoms). I don't disagree with the fact reference ranges are based on statistical data to account for 98.6% or whatever to fall within said range.

 

[Megatron28]

When I said most reference ranges are complete bullshit, it was in reference to how doctors interpret them (as in accepting a very low value as normal while disregarding patient symptoms). I don't disagree with the fact reference ranges are based on statistical data to account for 98.6% or whatever to fall within said range.

Now we are talking sigma and t scores and p values!!!