Why is gh bleed bad?
- Thread starter Symbio
- Start date
Toshiro
New member
Uh not sure how it is confirmed but I think real science shows your natural patterns are peaks and valleys with spikes. So a strong flat line (bleed) do not match guys. But women have that hormone pattern so it works for them. Not suggesting bleed via DAC won't work... just doesn't match nature. If that make sense?
Combat Pillow
New member
Tthis goes into my question on the other forum. If this is the case should one not dose a male rat every day when using something like DAC or LR3?
Toshiro
New member
They are kind of two different things but related... See if I can explain... GH ultimately helps contribute towards creating IFG. So elevated GH could increase IGF. Probably why people who take external HGH get insulin sensitivity. Usually after prolonged large doses. But the slin sensitivity is just a guess on my part.
So breaking this down into two parts we have GH releasing peptides and the other is IGF:
1. For GH releasing peptides in a male rat you want a GHRH + GHRP dosed a few times a day and the less often the more leans towards anti-aging effects. The more often it gives 'more' HGH benefits.
DAC (drug affinity complex creates a long lasting effect for the GHRH) so it is only meaningful in that GH scenario I think. Specifically it is most often CJC1295 DAC is the amino acid analog used. This just raises GHRH for like a week instead of a short burst. So in male rats it doesn't match what your body normally does. (short bursts and spikes)
2. The IGFLR3 is a long acting version of IGF. There are also short versions like IGF DES. But those do not require a GHRH or GHRP. You can run IGF products on their own or stacked with a GHRH and GHRP.
Does that make sense?
Take care,
T.
So breaking this down into two parts we have GH releasing peptides and the other is IGF:
1. For GH releasing peptides in a male rat you want a GHRH + GHRP dosed a few times a day and the less often the more leans towards anti-aging effects. The more often it gives 'more' HGH benefits.
DAC (drug affinity complex creates a long lasting effect for the GHRH) so it is only meaningful in that GH scenario I think. Specifically it is most often CJC1295 DAC is the amino acid analog used. This just raises GHRH for like a week instead of a short burst. So in male rats it doesn't match what your body normally does. (short bursts and spikes)
2. The IGFLR3 is a long acting version of IGF. There are also short versions like IGF DES. But those do not require a GHRH or GHRP. You can run IGF products on their own or stacked with a GHRH and GHRP.
Does that make sense?
Take care,
T.
Combat Pillow
New member
Thanks for the info Toshiro def helps a bit
I am looking more so for the HGH benefits for my test subject. Not really wanting to get into AAS experimentation just yet so IGF and peptides seemed like a decent start. What might you recommend for a large rat that has a combination build being very large and muscular while carrying a lot of extra midsection?
Currently the test subject is on Lr3, pondering adding in TB-500 in the next couple of weeks but def looking for a good stack to promote the GH effects for rebuilding and new musculature/tissues.
Symbio, not trying to hijack yo thread man. That is a good question and I can even answer from an herbal standpoint where most of my knowledge comes from. There are many herbs that promote similar albeit far lesser effects for T production, stamina, GH release, etc. Even with herbs being "natural" you still have to herbs that have androgenic or estrogenic effects as they can cause our bodies to stop production due to the loss of necessity. You feed it hormones and regulators, therefore it has no need to continue production. It seems that the 6-8 week mark is a good cycle followed by a similar time frame for off cycling.
I am looking more so for the HGH benefits for my test subject. Not really wanting to get into AAS experimentation just yet so IGF and peptides seemed like a decent start. What might you recommend for a large rat that has a combination build being very large and muscular while carrying a lot of extra midsection?
Currently the test subject is on Lr3, pondering adding in TB-500 in the next couple of weeks but def looking for a good stack to promote the GH effects for rebuilding and new musculature/tissues.
Symbio, not trying to hijack yo thread man. That is a good question and I can even answer from an herbal standpoint where most of my knowledge comes from. There are many herbs that promote similar albeit far lesser effects for T production, stamina, GH release, etc. Even with herbs being "natural" you still have to herbs that have androgenic or estrogenic effects as they can cause our bodies to stop production due to the loss of necessity. You feed it hormones and regulators, therefore it has no need to continue production. It seems that the 6-8 week mark is a good cycle followed by a similar time frame for off cycling.
Toshiro
New member
Start reading up on the sticky's there is some good beginner info to get yourself familiarized with. IGF-LR3 is good to start with. You can run it alone for 8 weeks +/- then cycle off for a period of time.
TB500? Got an injury?
For GH effects any GHRH and GHRP combo is best. Most do 100mcg doses 3-4 times a day. But you have to play with it to get what you want. I do more like 200mcg of each 2 times a day and it works for my rat.
Lots of extra mid section? diet and cardio man! Do enough cardio and you can eat whatever you want. LOL But may not be much fun. Best to combine good diet with a reasonable amount.
Hope that helps.
T.
PS. Nice avatar. LOL
TB500? Got an injury?
For GH effects any GHRH and GHRP combo is best. Most do 100mcg doses 3-4 times a day. But you have to play with it to get what you want. I do more like 200mcg of each 2 times a day and it works for my rat.
Lots of extra mid section? diet and cardio man! Do enough cardio and you can eat whatever you want. LOL But may not be much fun. Best to combine good diet with a reasonable amount.
Hope that helps.
T.
PS. Nice avatar. LOL
Combat Pillow
New member
Started out with the sticky's and working from there, I can be a little anal with knowledge so I spend enough time researching one thing that I can make an intelligent statement and decision based on it. Def looking to stack some GHRH and RP with the Lr3 now and going to research on those.
TB-500, yeah. Shoulder separation. Rat, his girl and another rat got in a huge brawl at a rock concert. No idea wtf my rat was doing there but hey, whatever. Minor grade but figure do what I can to fix em up and prevent major future injury since training is planned to drastically increase. Also testing for results and genetic tolerance as the Rats progenitors are former fighters also(even the mom, lol) and would likely benefit as they deal with nasty lingering issues.
As per the Midsection, Diet and exercise is on par with 95% strict Western A Price/Paleo 6 days a week with one "Cheat Day". Went from 340 down to 235ish but finding the last bit doesn't want to leave. I was even looking into Adipotide but not finding any real world results. By no means is this rat a low effort trainer though. Doing CrossFit and Wendler strength training, even working into strong man shit. Problem is to burn fat Mr. Rat is having to run his equivalent of a mile before and after the CF workouts. Shit gets over taxing after six weeks or so and the effort to results ratio is far to high on the effort side of the scale. Looking for that tiny little thing that aids to spark the final re-comp.
TB-500, yeah. Shoulder separation. Rat, his girl and another rat got in a huge brawl at a rock concert. No idea wtf my rat was doing there but hey, whatever. Minor grade but figure do what I can to fix em up and prevent major future injury since training is planned to drastically increase. Also testing for results and genetic tolerance as the Rats progenitors are former fighters also(even the mom, lol) and would likely benefit as they deal with nasty lingering issues.
As per the Midsection, Diet and exercise is on par with 95% strict Western A Price/Paleo 6 days a week with one "Cheat Day". Went from 340 down to 235ish but finding the last bit doesn't want to leave. I was even looking into Adipotide but not finding any real world results. By no means is this rat a low effort trainer though. Doing CrossFit and Wendler strength training, even working into strong man shit. Problem is to burn fat Mr. Rat is having to run his equivalent of a mile before and after the CF workouts. Shit gets over taxing after six weeks or so and the effort to results ratio is far to high on the effort side of the scale. Looking for that tiny little thing that aids to spark the final re-comp.
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Toshiro
New member
That is great you research heavily. Can't be too careful and will only help you in the long run. So far my rat likes CJC1295 no DAC or Mod GFR 1-29 for GHRH and I have only used Ipamorelin as a GHRP.
Sorry to hear of injury that sucks! Rest too and don't push to hard to early.
Good work on going down from 340! Yes they last bit is always the hardest. Peptides may help push you over the edge. If not there are lots of other good health benefits (similar to very low dose HGH)
Keep us posted on your progress and good luck!
Sorry to hear of injury that sucks! Rest too and don't push to hard to early.
Good work on going down from 340! Yes they last bit is always the hardest. Peptides may help push you over the edge. If not there are lots of other good health benefits (similar to very low dose HGH)
Keep us posted on your progress and good luck!
Combat Pillow
New member
Thanks for the heads up, lots of good info and well appreciated guys.
Toshiro
New member
This caught my attention and I was always taught to NOT use DAC so that you could mimic normal patters of pulses. BUT... it got me thinking and doing some research over the weekend and gymrat827 has a valid point.
I found this:
JCEM | Mobile
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17018654/?i=2&from=/16352683/related
and per that study it showed no ill side effects (at least immediate) of using CJC1295 DAC at a rate of 30 or 60 mcg per kg. That could be allot depending on body weight! Has anyone else actually ran DAC?
If yes how did you like it and how did you run it?
Symbio
New member
I found one with graphs showing gh,igf-1 release over period of 1 week.Exciting stuff.
Prolonged Stimulation of Growth Hormone (GH) and Insulin-Like Growth Factor I Secretion by CJC-1295, a Long-Acting Analog of GH-Releasing Hormone, in Healthy Adults
It seems that 60mcg/kg is the best bang for the buck.
Imo cjc 1295 dac is very underestimated. gh bleed is broscience.Period.
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Toshiro
New member
Yep and I wonder if you can get even more "bang for your buck" by creating extra pulses via a GHRP 2-4 times a day too. If you try it Symbio let me know. I am using CJC1295 DAC with my rat now and pulse 3x a day with GHRP-2. So far it seems to do just fine. I would be curious to run the CJC solo and at a biger dose too. Anyone tried that?
Symbio
New member
Found an interesting post:Cjc-1295 > Hgh/igf??? - Bodybuilding.com Forums
Acromegaly caused by growth hormone-releasing hormone-producing tumors:Acromegaly caused by growth hormone-releasing hormone-producing tumors: long-term observational studies in three patients
Symbio
New member
Nice on that first one I wonder if they ran the CJC1295 along and left the pulsing to whenever your body does it. (kinda read that way). Couldn't quite follow all the jargon in the Acromegaly tumor study thingy. LOL
The ghrh acromegaly study shows that you can constantly stimulate pituitary and you wont become desensitized as to what many bros have said happens when you use cjc 1295 dac.I'm waiting for the next blow out sale on propeptides.net and will be using 4mg/a week in split dosages with huperzine a/levo-dopa.I'll make a blood work on gh/igf-1 before and while on the cjc 1295 dac.This should be interesting cause Im still very young and it could make me a fucking giant.
bonexyster
Well-known member
I personally call bullshit that bleed is bad. Synthetic hgh doesn't spike! Why does it work so well? Because it a higher then normal gh level that is present to do its physical attributes with in the body. It's only bro science that it's bad. Test e and test cyp are estered they are not spiked yet they work. Achieving higher then normal levels will cause improvement you can't convince me otherwise. That'd be like saying npp is stronger then deca because deca has a ester. I find no logic in it.
Toshiro
New member
Very true! And I used the same logic. I have run DAC and the non drug affinity complex analogs. The only difference I can see is that you don't have to pin as much. Plus if you stick with a low dose of the DAC like 1MG a week and some GHRP shots to make pulses, I would guess that it can't be too bad. I dunno... I haven't flopped over dead yet. LOL
jozifp103
New member
i've read that the reason why a pulse is better is because it gives the body time in between pulses to produce more GH. When it's constantly bleeding the amount released gets lower and lower because the body can't produce enough GH to keep up with the constant signal. I have not read actual studies on this, i'm just regurgitating information that i've read. Kind of makes sense though
bonexyster
Well-known member
The pituitary gland holds some gh and releases it during a pulse. You're going to get a pulse regardless using the ghrh. So IMO I see no need to store it. I could be wrong but I don't see how that could make any difference. Holding it to release it layer or just pumping it out. It's being used regardless.