Women and Testosterone to combat low sex drive

[Dragot]

55 year old male.

I have been on TRT for an year already with GREAT results. Literally got my life back. All "Low T" signs have disappeared and I feel great from both psychological and physiological prospective. I have to note - along with TRT I have been on low every day dose HGH as well. Here is visual representation of the transformation. The main gain from my prospective is the restoration of libido and general "Well being".

View attachment 566667

However, this post is not about me, but my wife. She is 50 and started HGH couple of months later than me (end of August 2016). Three years ago she joined the "dark side" - per-menopause. Hot flashes, extensive sweating, fat gain, mood swings, irregular period... the works. Five months on 2IU HGH and clean diet, believe or not, totally reversed the symptoms. Lost 30LB, 15% BF, period on the clock, no more hot flashes... However, her libido is non-existent. Frustrating, indeed, since and am horny as a teenager.

Here is her result:

View attachment 566668

I do a regular blood tests to monitor T and E levels. Last October, she did Hormone Panel for women and her Testosterone is borderline low:

Testosterone, Free+Total LC/MS
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 18.5 ng/dL
Female:
Premenopausal 10.0 - 55.0

We are debating weekly low dose Testosterone Cypionate (perhaps 12.5mg to start with) and do weekly blood testing to dial the dose to where we can raise total T in 30-40 range (but keep it under 50). In the same time, we will be observing other signs - virilization, acne etc.

We would like to hear from experienced members at this community about this approach to combat low sex drive/libido issues. What (if at all) type of T could help, safety precautions etc. Please, spare us the clitoris jokes (yes, it is a danger) but let's take it serious, please!

 

[appleton111]

hello, what was the reason for you getting on trt to begin with? how much hgh are you dosing? and how much hgh is has your wife been dosing?

 

[Dragot]

Reason for TRT: Clear symptoms of low T years prior to forcing myself to take action - every single one in the book. Started in my mid 40es. Worst of course was ED, but no less devastating - fatigue, brain fog and... anti-social behavior. I literally hated to be around people. I cannot explain the last one. I have been listening my physician for years - you're getting old, this is normal, the usual bullshit. Last year went for annual physical and refused to leave office unless along with regular blood tests he wouldn't order Free T, Prolactin, Estradiol and IGF-1. What do you know...

Total T - 342 (250 - 827)
Free T - 6.8 (7.2 - 24)
E2 - 13.9 (8.35)
Prolactin - 4 (4 - 15)
IGF-1 - 96 (50 - 317)

As of end of May, 2016 (age - 54, 6ft)
Weight - 207LB
BF - 27.5%

At this time, started HRT as follow:

Test C - 120mg weekly, split on two pins - Monday morning, Thursday 5pm
HCG - 250IU 8 hours post Test administration
HGH (Generic) - 2IU every day, split 1IU am, 1IU PM

At the same time started walking the dog 2 miles am, two miles PM plus 5 days a week cardio and light weight lifting in the gym.

October, 2016:

Weight - 180LB
BF - 21%
Total T - 1153 (348 - 1197)
Free T - 41.16 (5 - 21)
PSA - 0.3 (0.0 - 4.0)
E2 (SENS - 52.6 (8.0 - 35) ***Although high, I did not experienced associated issues. Introduced aromatase inhibitor anyway.
IGF-1 - 148 (61-200) ***At this point, bumped HGH to 4IU dayly (split am/pm)

March 2017:
Weight - 170LB
BF - ~15% (at this point I started using calipers to measure BF)
Total T, Free T and PSA - pretty much same
E2 - 30 (8.0 - 35) ***Again, no noticeable difference, but happy it is under control
IGF-1 - 168 (61-200) ***At this point changed HGH (still generic, just different)

April21, 2017:

Weight - 168LB (feel great at this weight)
BF - 11.9%
Total T, Free T and PSA - pretty much same
E2 - 27 (8.0 - 35)
IGF-1 - 320 (61-200) ***I am not bodybuilder and so, got weary of this level, reduced to 3IU/day, split

No resent blood test to report, but:

Weight - 173lb
BF - 10.5%

No change of regimen.

Wife's story

We've been married 31 years already. Ever since I met her she maintained 115-130LB (5ft 3in tall). This, until she got hit with menopause symptoms (approx 3 years ago). Weght exploded (~170lb) despite the fact she was 5 days in the gym plus personal trainer twice a week. Nothing worked, period.

Her annual checkup numbers were "just fine" within reference range.

May 2016:

Weight - 168lb
BF - 41% (wow)
IGF-1 - 124 (61-200)
No Testosterone nor E/E2 tested (courtesy of our good ole family doctor)

***Both of us - June 2016: Cleaning the diet, no gluten, no starches, lean protein only, natural carb only, not processed sugars, no carbonated drinks.

August 2016 - started HGH 2UI/day split, been on this dose ever since.

Early October 2016:

Weight - 153
BF - 30%
Total T - 18.5 (10 - 55)
Free T - 4.4 (0.0 - 4.2)
Estradiol - 165.6 - Normal (too many reference ranges based on current ovulation phase - cant make sense of this crap)
IGF-1 - 224 (97 - 195)

As of today:
Weight 133.5LB
BF - 26%

Blood work due Friday this week to get baseline before TRT (if she will be doing it at all)

***We stopped HGH yesterday for the next 30 days (taking a break). At the end of the 30 days will be testing IGF-1 levers to see where we at before continue with the previous doses. Basically our strategy is to dial-in the essential hormones within the upper 95% of the reference range where the main goal is anti-aging and general well being...

 

[IMT staff]

With women it is imperative that you not only optimize testosterone levels but also estrogen and progesterone. Optimizing any one of the three suppresses the other two and makes them dominate in the supplemented hormone.

Here is a good read, its old and needs to be updated but still great info:

Increase-Her-T | Increase My T

 

[Dragot]

Thank you! Good read. So, "Advanced Female Hormone Panel" it shall be...

Includes:
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) Sulfate
Estradiol
Estrogens (Total), Serum
Estrone
Testosterone (Free), Serum with Total Testosterone
Progesterone

 

[Dragot]

The results are in and of course, nothing make sense (or does it?)

Blood was drawn on day 22 since the beginning of the period which puts her in Luteal Phase.

Here we go:

Testosterone, Serum 99 HIGH (8-48 ng/dL)

Free Testosterone(Direct) 2.6 (0.0-4.2 pg/mL)

DHEA-Sulfate 208.9 (41.2-243.7 ug/dL)

Estradiol 129.8 pg/mL
Follicular phase 12.5 - 166.0
Ovulation phase 85.8 - 498.0
Luteal phase (43.8 - 211.0)
Postmenopausal <6.0 - 54.7

Progesterone 0.6 ng/mL
Follicular phase 0.1 - 0.9
Luteal phase 1.8 - 23.9
Ovulation phase 0.1 - 12.0

Estrogens, Total 234 pg/mL
Female Cycle:
1-10 Days 61 - 394
11-20 Days 122 - 437
21-30 Days 156 - 350

Estrone, Serum 210 pg/mL
Follicular Phase 37 - 138
Mid-cycle 60 - 229
Luteal Phase 50 - 114
Post Menopausal 14 - 103

To put in prospective: as of today, 49y 10m, 5'4", 130.3LB, 21.7% BF

Surprisingly and unsuspectingly, Testosterone is two times above the reference range!?! One would think... never mind...

Looks like the culprit could turn to be very low progesterone, which ironically can be elevated with OTC cream from the local Walmart.

Symptoms of low Progesterone

weight gain.
decreased sex drive, mood swings, and depression.
PMS, irregular menstrual cycle, heavy bleeding.
breast tenderness, fibrocystic breasts.
fibroids, endometriosis.
gallbladder problems.
thyroid dysfunction.

Also, Estrone is almost twice as high as per the ref. range for the phase, but there is very good explanation - first few articles I've hit talk about the regulating function of Progeterone over Estrone - low Progesterone almost always leads to elevated Estrone.

To me looks like the most logical step right now is to grab some OTC Progesterone cream and apply as directed. There are many "customers feedback's" online stating that effect can be felt as soon as the fifth day of application... I guess we'll see soon.

Planning another blood test next on the 22 day since beginning of the period to get the deferential result set.

Any input (man or woman) will be highly appreciated.

 

[IMT staff]

I hear what you are saying, the problem is when you supplement progesterone that will drop everything else leaving her dominant there, like she is in E now. She is somewhat T dominant but her free is not terrible. But its like that cause progesterone is bottomed out you are correct.

But as soon as you raise that the other 2 will bottom.

So she probably feels like she is PMS ing all the time right now. Cause in the female cycle E is up right before progesterone, and when progesterone kicks in that stimulates the cervix.

 

[Dragot]

She will see her Dr (and bring the test results along) on Monday. We shall see.

 

[IMT staff]

Ive seen it happen about a million times, so there will won't be any surprises here.

 

[Dragot]

Alrighty then, here is the update. Before all, I have to say I do like wife's OBGYN - you will find why below.

Wife do have Polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS). Ultrasound exam did find cysts. What came first - cysts developed which caused Progesterone/E2 out of balance, or the latter caused the cysts does not matter at this point.

By pure coincidence, wife did blood test on the 22 day of the beginning of her period. Why is this important (and why I like her Dr.)

1. She told her this type of hormonal tests must be done on the 21 or 22 day since beginning or monthly period.
2. What should be looked at is not the levels it self, but the ratio of one hormone to another!


Strikingly, while the ratio Progesterone/E2 on the 22 day should be 200/1 - 300/1, wife's is 4.6/1

Absolutely no surprise she is experiencing all symptoms described in the books. Dr agreed topical application of bio-identical OTC Progesterone cream is proper first method of combating the issues, while they will discuss cysts treatment on the next appointment.

Happy to report that only after 4 days of cream application she is feeling much better, last two days (according her tracker) she had uninterrupted sleep for nearly eight hours (10-15 interruptions prior) and looks like her sex drive is coming back.

Not that y'all care so much about our case, but someone here who is/or approaching "elderly" stage of life might have some takeaways. I cannot stress enough the importance of balancing essential hormones when comes to well being of people past their prime!

As for very high Testosterone level... Right now we're not freaking out because her test last October showed very low Total T (but high Free T), while the last test - High Total T and Free T just in the middle of the reference range. Next blood test will show if measures must be taken eventually.

 

[daniel h]

What cream at Wal-Mart.. my wife's is low too.

 

[Dragot]

Actually, Amazon: (Paraben-Free) Natural Progesto-Life Cream. 4 Ounce Pump with 2000mg of Bioidentical USP Progesterone.

The plan is as follow:
1. Do not apply during monthly period
2. Apply half dose (0.5gr am, 0.5gr pm) for the first seven days after period ends
3. Apply full dose (1.1gr am, 1.1gr pm) until next period

According the label, 1/4 tsp (equals to 1.1gr) contains 23mg Progesterone. If absorption rate is 50%, it does make sense to apply twice a day.Of course, we will be doing another blood work on day 22 to check the levels and adjust if needed. According the Dr this should mimic the naturally occurring levels.

Again, target ratio (Prog/E2) is 200:1 - 300:1

 

[cbburrr]

awesome that your wife has a great Dr,
lots of them are clueless.
My wifes Dr suggested paxil.... smfh

she now goes to a bhrt clinic and feels great!!