Workout Nutrition - Are You Doing it Right?

[Megatron28]

I am really surprised at the bitterness shown here towards Mr. Zilla. He nearly always backs up his statements with scientific support. Of course there is ongoing debate in the scientific community over many things, thus resulting in conflicting studies and ambiguity. But it is clear that he isn't making stuff up or relying on less prestigious websites as sources.

I think he is a valuable member of our community. He makes all of us raise our game.

And before any of us cast stones, we should all remember that we are prone to hyperbole at times.

Cybrsage: since you are going to ask, let me define hyperbole for you.

exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

 

[Alpin]

Yea that must be it, or it might be that admin staff & mods who have high rep have been repping me all year long because clearly some people do think I'm knowledgeable...but whatever makes you feel better man

I was actually temporarily angered by this attempt by you guys to discredit me.
Then I woke up today, saw no one else coming to agree with you, saw my PM box still full of guys look for advice & realised that this just isn't serious for me.

You've both been placed on my ignore list but please continue to waste time here bashing me relentlessly.

That chick in your avatar is hot

 

[IMT staff]

I am really surprised at the bitterness shown here towards Mr. Zilla. He nearly always backs up his statements with scientific support. Of course there is ongoing debate in the scientific community over many things, thus resulting in conflicting studies and ambiguity. But it is clear that he isn't making stuff up or relying on less prestigious websites as sources.

I think he is a valuable member of our community. He makes all of us raise our game.

And before any of us cast stones, we should all remember that we are prone to hyperbole at times.

Cybrsage: since you are going to ask, let me define hyperbole for you.

exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Megatron I don't know you if you read the thread or not but he came in here and basically said the entire article that was posted has been completely debunked and it needs to be changed. Meanwhile he supports his argument with some bogus contradictory meta-analysis while simultaneously providing no evidence at all for pre-workout nutrition.

I know exactly what happened, he saw the words "nutrition window" and went of on a tantrum not thinking anyone would take the time to read is contradictory meta analysis on elderly men doing aerobic exercise.

So yes his arrogance on top of the fact he merely stated that a small body of literature does not support post workout nutrition (even though there is also a body of literature that does support it) while not providing a better solution, the study he posted even notated there is not a better solution, so yes I am not impressed. If we are going to base this argument on peer reviewed literature alone, then we shouldn't have any nutrition at all anywhere near our workout, which is pretty impractical in the real world.

He took the opportunity to attack a very general article to make himself look smart, when all he did in reality is look pretty stupid in my eyes.

So yea I think his post's were very douche baggish and there was not much to learn from them.

He basically said: OMG IMT your stupid I can't believe you have that article on your site, then posted a study that has no real value due to controls to back his argument, that he later backpedaled from citing his experience instead. Meanwhile admitting if the workout was fasted it would be 100% correct.

The bottom-line is, he doesn't understand the study he is claiming to be fact. A further review on the information he has posted will not change my opinion on the matter.

If he would not have claimed his argument as fact and belittled us at the same time, things would have been different. I also think I gave him every opportunity to tone it down at the beginning, yet he continued to force his opinion without any research on the benefit of pre workout nutrition vs post workout nutrition.

It was all smoke and mirrors. In an attempt to belittle IMT while making himself seem educated. He even said something along the lines of "stop pretending your smarter than me"

He hasn't made a single valid point in this entire thread, except that some very poorly controlled study with a small number of subjects did not show a marked benefit of post workout nutrition.

 

[Megatron28]

Megatron I don't know you if you read the thread or not but he came in here and basically said the entire article that was posted has been completely debunked and it needs to be changed. Meanwhile he supports his argument with some bogus contradictory meta-analysis while simultaneously providing no evidence at all for pre-workout nutrition.

I know exactly what happened, he saw the words "nutrition window" and went of on a tantrum not thinking anyone would take the time to read is contradictory meta analysis on elderly men doing aerobic exercise.

So yes his arrogance on top of the fact he merely stated that a small body of literature does not support post workout nutrition (even though there is also a body of literature that does support it) while not providing a better solution, the study he posted even said there is not a better solution, so yes I am not impressed.

He took the opportunity to attack a very general article to make himself look smart, when all he did in reality is look pretty stupid in my eyes.

So yea I think his post's were very douche baggish and there was not much to learn from them.

A further review on the information he has posted will not change my opinion on the matter.

I painstakingly read the entire thread. It took me a long time to get through it. I did not read the linked studies though.

But my reference to hyperbole did apply to Mr. Zilla's first post -- and to posts by others.

Can't we just eat when we are hungry (within reason) and drink water when we are thirsty? The body has elvolved to know what it needs.

 

[IMT staff]

I

Can't we just eat when we are hungry (within reason) and drink water when we are thirsty? The body has elvolved to know what it needs.

Honestly we couldn't agree more, and in fact we believe in switching any routine you have constantly.

 

[IMT staff]

We have members that sell stuff here vs member who enjoys researching nutrition. Hmmm.. Can anyone tell me who I am more prone to beleive? (Sarcasm).

This is also a great point since IMT does not sell nutrition in any shape or form (sarcasm)

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

I know exactly what happened, he saw the words "nutrition window" and went of on a tantrum not thinking anyone would take the time to read is contradictory meta analysis on elderly men doing aerobic exercise.

This will be my final word on this matter since this thread has become enough of a mess as it is.

Firstly, I will admit that my very first post far too harsh - but this was without knowing that the article was intentionally written to be brief.
I read the full article you wrote, and maintain my position that its something I'd expect to see in muscle & fitness magazine, not on a respected TRT company's website.

The meta-analysis I provided reviewed ALL of the literature currently available regarding workout nutrition timing & considered studies looking at both sides of the debate - this becomes obvious if you read the main body of the analysis.
Then, finally, the authors make practical recommendations based on the data as a whole (including why preworkout nutrition is as important as I made it out to be).
You clearly don't think much of the analysis and here is a direct quote from you:

The "meta analysis" is full of flaws, the entire thing is built on false premises with elderly men and aerobic exercise lol if thats the best there is then maybe you shouldn't be relying on scientific literature to make your point.

At this point you made it clear that I shouldn't rely on science to make my point if that's the best it can offer - I completely disagree with this but nevertheless I complied and gave insights based on my own experience.
You then quickly dismissed everything I have experienced as not worth consideration and proceeded to insult me personally DESPITE the fact that I repeatedly praised IMT for their knowledge in regards to TRT related topics.

Here it became clear that if I cant use science to point out the flaws of your article, and I cant use my experiences either - then the conversation was a complete waste of time.

At this point IMT, DET-OAK & boney proceeded with a flurry of personal insults in an attempt to discredit me. Not only did this fail miserably (as evidenced by the support I've received from others, for which I'm grateful) but it also made me stop trying.

Let me make clear that I tried my very best to keep the conversation on topic, but the personal insults from 3 separate people was too much for me to bother with.
I maintain what I said previously - let members read everything themselves and they can make up their own minds

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Bro the meta analysis you posted is far from science. No where in it does it say anything about pre workout nutrition being a solution to the problem, it clearly says there are no clear cut results at all.

Honestly at this point I don't even know if we are reading the same article!

Distilling the data into firm, specific recommendations is difficult due to the inconsistency of findings and scarcity of systematic investigations seeking to optimize pre- and/or post-exercise protein dosage and timing. Practical nutrient timing applications for the goal of muscle hypertrophy inevitably must be tempered with field observations and experience in order to bridge gaps in the scientific literature.

Yet you state it as fact......

Many flaws were pointed out about the premise of much of the literature used AND the controls in the study as well. I literally don't know how you take what you posted as fact, it doesn't say or show much at all and none of the scenarios that were tested are even remotely close to how any of us would workout, none of it. Its like trying to take a study on female hormones and apply it to men, it just doesn't make any sense.

With all of that being said, if your not working out fasted YOUR DOING IT WRONG ANYWAY! (and no a whey protein shake does not matter, we can extrapolate this from testing on penta and hexapeptides)

So none of what we are talking about matters at all......... none of it.

your meta analysis is nothing more than an opinion on some pretty far fetched science man.....

Its like your trying to sell this thing, and your telling us all about its features, but your not telling us any of the benefits.

If your buying pre workout nutrition based on that article alone? I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

 

[Therealkozmo]

This is also a great point since IMT does not sell nutrition in any shape or form (sarcasm)

No you sell testosterone replacement. So your bottom line is effected by people having low t. Which often times can and should be remedy using every available option before juice. Now, I hope you are not trying to convince people that you post information on your website out of the kindness of your heart. I can keep connecting the dots however I am going to take your lack of a reply to this post as confirmation you don't want me to lay out your buissness plan. I am not saying you are "wrong" for selling steroids. So, let me know if I am the next one you want to engage in an argument, because fitness is a lifestyle for me I am more interested in truth. Now, that being said I am a shark and not a catfish and I am more then happy to devour you strictly for my pleasure.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

No you sell testosterone replacement. So your bottom line is effected by people having low t. Which often times can and should be remedy using every available option before juice. Now, I hope you are not trying to convince people that you post information on your website out of the kindness of your heart. I can keep connecting the dots however I am going to take your lack of a reply to this post as confirmation you don't want me to lay out your buissness plan. I am not saying you are "wrong" for selling steroids. So, let me know if I am the next one you want to engage in an argument, because fitness is a lifestyle for me I am more interested in truth. Now, that being said I am a shark and not a catfish and I am more then happy to devour you strictly for my pleasure.

Yea bro whenever your ready, I am sick and fucking tired of douche bags like you trying to tarnish IMT's reputation by implying they are some fucking shill. IMT has never and would never compromise their integrity to sell a bottle of fucking t.

Then you want to tell me about low T? Juice should be a last resort for people with hypogonadism?

Your a moron.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

TRT has nothing to do with juice you moron!!!!!!! go back to the AAS section where you belong.

 

[Therealkozmo]

And I never said who I agree with becuase science is broscience with funding from businesses with vested interest. Doctors used to prescribe cigarettes and infact the original pharmaceuticals were all placebos. I can keep listing stuff but iphone posting is slow. So I am leaving by pointing out the most recent broscience study that said trt increased risk of heart attack. Hmmm let's take a guess at who payed for the study. So please play nice now.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

So dumb!!!! your def not a shark devouring anything!!!!!

Selling steroids?

your clueless.

 

[Therealkozmo]

Yea bro whenever your ready, I am sick and fucking tired of douche bags like you trying to tarnish IMT's reputation by implying they are some fucking shill. IMT has never and would never compromise their integrity to sell a bottle of fucking t.

Then you want to tell me about low T? Juice should be a last resort for people with hypogonadism?

Your a moron.

Firstly, juice is the word I use for synthetic test. That is trt. Secondly, never did I imply IMt is a shill. Nor am I implying he is involved with conning people. I merely pointed out that he is a business. Now as far as hypogonadism goes, one can be diagnosed with low t caused by a plethora of reasons that don't require "juice" or clomid.

I have purposely been vague in my post becuase I am not trying to tarnish reputations however if you desire to continue your "your stupid and I am divine and never put my needs over others" I am more then happy to devour you as well. And I have no financial reward to do that. Only principle.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Firstly, juice is the word I use for synthetic test. That is trt. Secondly, never did I imply IMt is a shill. Nor am I implying he is involved with conning people. I merely pointed out that he is a business. Now as far as hypogonadism goes, one can be diagnosed with low t caused by a plethora of reasons that don't require "juice" or clomid.

I have purposely been vague in my post becuase I am not trying to tarnish reputations however if you desire to continue your "your stupid and I am divine and never put my needs over others" I am more then happy to devour you as well. And I have no financial reward to do that. Only principle.

Listen man you can't come into the TRT section and imply IMT is selling steroids, which you clearly did.

 

[Therealkozmo]

So dumb!!!! your def not a shark devouring anything!!!!!

Selling steroids?

your clueless.

So your tactic is insults and mine is truth. Ok, i do what I say. I am going to be at a keyboard tomorrow so that is when I will start.

 

[Therealkozmo]

Listen man you can't come into the TRT section and imply IMT is selling steroids, which you clearly did.

Ok, you wAnt me to be more precise. Y'all sell access to the doctor that prescribed it.

I can see you are already calming down. I am only here for truth.

 

[Therealkozmo]

You can Send me a pm if you would like to apologize for name calling and save face. I won't post it and I will be done with this thread. Or tomorrow I will begin meal time. Let me know.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

you want the truth? Well here it is.

There is no reason for a man with a deficiency to not go on TRT. You are implying that there are other choices that would be better for that person and this is not true.

Every day that a man suffers a testosterone deficiency he is at risk for a ********* disease. When your testosterone is deficient androgen receptors are not being activated. This tells your body to store fat and not just any kind of fat, Android fat. This is a particular type of fat that leaves your body 8x more prone diabetes and hypertension.

The risk of TRT is far less than the risk of carrying this type of fat. In fact many IMT clients have undergone TRT for a year or more and recovered natural testosterone levels far above what they were previously. Your assumption is that once a man undergoes TRT he is destined to be on it for life, this could not be further from the truth. It seems you have little understanding that hypogonadism is a medical condition.

I honestly don't know what your point is or what your trying to prove but there are 2 things your not gonna do.

#1 Imply IMT sells steroids

#2 Imply that IMT compromises their integrity to put people on TRT.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I would say its safe to assume IMT has a pretty good idea of what they are doing and understands fully that it is a "lifestyle"

^^^^ 1 year