1 Year a Slave, Jomamma007's HRT Exit

[jomamma007]

Just got bloods done on tuesday 3/25/14 2 days after last hcg pin,

25 days since last testosterone pin
Testosterone , Serum 443 (348-1197)ng/dL
LH 0.4 LOW (1.78.6)mIU/mL
FSH 1.2 LOW (1.5-12.4 )mIU/mLSO
Estradiol 10.9(7-42.6)pg/mL

Not sure if i should do another few weeks of hcg or start SERMS. Probably best to do more HCG I was thinking 2kiu E3D for 5 shots then starting SERMS, but I didn't have it with me so I just started my SERMS. I've only taken 1 days of them and now I got some HCG in ;-\, so I don't think it'd be that big a deal to start either.

Since last injection on the 1st I've experienced the following.
Hard time sleeping, waking up constantly. Erections have been non existent the last ~10 days. Joint pain. Changes in appetite, from nothing to ravenous and back. Poor energy. Anxiety. Loss of strength.
Good news is that I had a week off school and no girlfriend right now so these issues aren't much of an annoyance.

These can all be explained to keeping my estrogen too low, but I wanted to keep it from elevating during my HCG blast. Knowing that my estrogen was low, the side effects aren't really bothering me as much as they used to if that makes sense. Since I know why I feel the way I do, and that it's temporary it calms my mind.
Even still I feel decent, I believe keeping my mind positive and focused on other things has really helped so far. I'm hoping the SERMS will jump start my hpta more then the hcg did.

Keep in mind I also kicked caffeine a week ago as my adrenals and cortisol, dhea levels are low without supplementation and I want to ensure the highest rate of a successful recovery. This definitely coupled with stopping my injections is contributing to the sides.

All in all it's been a month since last pin and I'm starting to feel the effects this week. If SERMS do their job though, I'd expect to feel better in a few weeks. Most say it takes 2-3 weeks to start to feel them. I'm sure it might be better to take more hcg but it's been a month since last injection so I'd say most of the testosterone is out of me, and by the time the SERMS will reach peak plasma in another week, the test definitely will be.

All advice is very welcomed and appreciated.

 

[Alpin]

Is this Estradiol in PG/ML regular panel ?
what dose of ADEX were you taking...I think you took too much.
High Estrogen can cause insomnia too, also anxiety.
Any anxiety from using this HCG ?
can you also tell me what last injection on the 1st you are talking about ?

 

[jomamma007]

Is this Estradiol in PG/ML regular panel ? Standard Panel pg/ml
what dose of ADEX were you taking...I think you took too much. .5mgs with each hcg injection, so EoD
High Estrogen can cause insomnia too, also anxiety.
Any anxiety from using this HCG ?Only had anxiety from one shot for some reason. Anxiety is up a tad but not like it was before trt
can you also tell me what last injection on the 1st you are talking about ?I took my last testosterone cypionate injection, 80mgs, on the 1st of March.

Bold

 

[Alpin]

Fact of the matter is: You're messing with hormones. There's no one size fits all.
You will have up's and downs before getting fully dialed in.
When or how far back was the one shot of HCG that caused anxiety ?
You took way too much ADEX as I thought....
I would have ran 0.25 mg EOD...
at 0.25 mg E4D I was at 26.42 pg/ml (and the dose taken was 0.25 mg DAY BEFORE blood labs).
At the time I was running ADEX 0.25 mg E4D and 500 i.u. EOD 3 times a week for restart.
I'm pretty sure Estradiol rebounded well 4 days later. I was trying to use the least dose. Anxiety was up. I was running 500 i.u. 3 times a week. ADEX should be dose at 1/4 tab no less than E3D...
and then go from there.

 

[Alpin]

Fact of the matter is:

I dosed 500 iu. EOD 3 times a week and used the least amount of ADEX at E4D 0.25 mg and reached TT of 482 ng/dl after 5 weeks.
You took more HCG than me and have not yet quite lifted TT up to a decent level to begin SERM therapy.
This just lends credence to my theory that the body can only use so much HCG at a time and more does not usually mean quicker or better results. You might have been better served to keep your doses at 500 iu. EOD for a while and use lower doses of ADEX.
Seems your Restart protocol is a rush. These things take time.

 

[Alpin]

How far into this HCG protocol did u jump onto this ADEX dose ?
did you use this ADEX 0.5 mg dose from the get go ?

 

[jomamma007]

I think most of that is irrelevant now, and I don't mean that in a douchey way because what's done is done.
What should I do now is the question.

The plan was to run hcg while the exogenous testosterone clears out of my system then start serms when the testes are ready.
I agree that it might seem rushed, and it might be a tad early but running SERMS seems to be okay, unless I'm wrong.

 

[methos0123]

Well, I'm not a expert on the restart thing, but just looking at your LH, and FSH...you're ball are doing something! I would say that it makes sense to start the serms.

However, like I said, i'm not experienced in the restart area.

 

[Alpin]

Jommama you're anxiety was worse before TRT ?
meaning it got better while on TRT ?
so these labs are 2 days after your last HCG pin ?
I would assume you took that 0.5 mg ADEX dose that day ?
HCG ever so slowly clearing out of your system yet your body senses it is low in T and low in E2 that is why it is starting up.
ADEX will do that....
HCG can be freshly discontinued but as long as you stay on low dose ADEX your body will start to fire up again.
I think the dosing is not the issue....
you should have done it E3D but do what was working for you I guess...
taking more HCG does nothing anyway...
your body can only use 500 i.u. at a time...
I would of def. hit up IMT to get this done with. No point doing this blind. You already are unsure what dose to continue on,
You're in the U.S. I would take advantage of their services.

 

[Alpin]

My main concern for you is that ADEX is not going to help all this intertesticular E2 you are aromatizing.
I hope you don't descensitize your leydig cells.

 

[Alpin]

so how many pins of HCG in total have you done in this restart ?
1000 i.u. each dose ?

 

[jomamma007]

so how many pins of HCG in total have you done in this restart ?
1000 i.u. each dose ?

10 pins.

 

[jomamma007]

My main concern for you is that ADEX is not going to help all this intertesticular E2 you are aromatizing.
I hope you don't descensitize your leydig cells.

Well I stopped HCG almost a week ago, so not sure how much intratestituclar e2 is hanging around. Going to still run arimidex throughout my SERMS though, .25mg twice per week.

 

[Alpin]

Well I stopped HCG almost a week ago, so not sure how much intratestituclar e2 is hanging around. Going to still run arimidex throughout my SERMS though, .25mg twice per week.

I thought you said you were going to continue the HCG or at least bump it to 2k iu ?

 

[jomamma007]

I thought you said you were going to continue the HCG or at least bump it to 2k iu ?

I was pondering if I should, but I feel like it's an appropriate enough time to SERMS. 3rd day of them and woke up with morning wood today, don't know if that means much but I feel better then I have all week.

 

[Alpin]

In all honesty, I think you are younger than me and I have way more mileage on my balls and have been on exo T longer and can recover to 500 ng/dl TT on 500 i.u. 3 times a week with less AI as well.
If I remember right you are in your early 20's ?
I'm not too sure of your diagnosis so I can't comment any further....
my 2 cents....

 

[jomamma007]

My low testosterone was merely from heavy aas usage. Although I always had lower levels, started puberty late.
I have no thyroid, or adrenal issues or sleep apnea. No pituitary tumors as well. I was on cycle for a year and didn't do a proper pct and I just never fully recovered. My testosterone was fine but my SHBG was elevated and never came down, I believe from not controlling my estrogen throughout my restart taking 1500iu hcg EoD with no ai.

I'm running my SERMS now,
Clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20
I will get blood after the 4th week of clomid to make sure testes are firing.
Then blood work again after finishing nolvadex, and lastly 8 weeks after discontinuation of all drugs.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Hello,
The clomid and nolvadex is to jumpstart your Pituitary! Check the LH/FSH levels to see how the SERMs are working. HCG should be used to make sure the testes are capable of producing testosterone.

Best of luck!

 

[Alpin]

My low testosterone was merely from heavy aas usage. Although I always had lower levels, started puberty late.
I have no thyroid, or adrenal issues or sleep apnea. No pituitary tumors as well. I was on cycle for a year and didn't do a proper pct and I just never fully recovered. My testosterone was fine but my SHBG was elevated and never came down, I believe from not controlling my estrogen throughout my restart taking 1500iu hcg EoD with no ai.

I'm running my SERMS now,
Clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20
I will get blood after the 4th week of clomid to make sure testes are firing.
Then blood work again after finishing nolvadex, and lastly 8 weeks after discontinuation of all drugs.

wow...
Just reading all that I can imagine how this has effected your quality of life. I totally understand your story.
how old r u b.t.w. if u don't mind me asking ?
one other thing that has me baffled...
the guy prescribing to you (your endo or GP) what did they advise you to use to smooth out this transition from discontinuing TRT ?
Should they not be monitoring or guiding you through this transition ?

 

[jomamma007]

wow...
Just reading all that I can imagine how this has effected your quality of life. I totally understand your story.
how old r u b.t.w. if u don't mind me asking ?
one other thing that has me baffled...
the guy prescribing to you (your endo or GP) what did they advise you to use to smooth out this transition from discontinuing TRT ?
Should they not be monitoring or guiding you through this transition ?

I turn 23 today and have suffered from low T since 20, at least, but that was the first time I had blood work done.
My endo isn't helping, they told me I don't need to take anything because I was on a trt dose not a steroid dose. So I got pharma grade serms and am doing this on my own.
You see now why I am jumbled, because I have no guide, although I know hcg followed by serms is the basic guideline combined with blood work to dictate my progress. That's why I was using cashout's restart protocol along with advice from knowledgeable members.