21 years old need help recovering

ayoungidiot

New member
I'm 21 years old and did my first steroid cycle at 17. I recovered and all was good but I quit lifting during pct lost all my gains and 2 years later I did another steroid cycle and never recovered. (I did tren on both cycles/I know how dumb that is now) When I say I never recovered I mean I have absolutely zero libido. I tried pct to no avail and tried another pct and it still didn't work. I waited around 8 months with no libido and then I came to the conclusion that I would most likely be on trt for life.

I go to an endocrinologist get blood work done and he tells me my results are pretty normal estrogen is slightly elevated but nothing else seems to be off. He then tells me to go get blood work done again and see if anything changes. second time everything is pretty much the same except total test goes to 287, free test is 57, prolactin to 15.5 and my estrogen is now <15. He tells me nothing is out of the ordinary and I shouldn't be having any symptoms. After basically being told I wouldn't be helped in anyway I decided to try pct again. standard clomid nolva pct with some prami to lower my prolactin as 15 seemed a little high. 5 weeks into my pct I get bloodwork done again. (Most recent bloodwork at the bottom)

Taking the nolva and clomid every day upped my numbers substantially. Now my tt is 800, free test is off the charts, prolactin in a better range, estrogen is slightly elevated but could that be due to the clomid? My numbers are looking better but I can't get a boner to save my life. At this point I don't know what to do I don't even care if I have to be on trt for the rest of my life but with my most recent test showing decent numbers and still absolutely no libido I don't even know if that will help. If anyone could help me at all with recovering I would appreciate it a ton as it is right now I have no idea what to do. And before I get the comments of how dumb I was....Believe me I know.

My first test results:

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS
318
250-1100 ng/dL
FREE TESTOSTERONE
71.4
35.0-155.0 pg/mL
DHEA SULFATE
212
Range: 24-537 mcg/dL
FSH
4.2
Range: 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
LH
4.9
Range:1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
PROLACTIN
15.2
Range: 2.0-18.0 ng/mL
ESTRADIOL, FREE
0.76 H
pg/mL
Reference Range:
ADULTS: < OR = 0.45
ESTRADIOL
31 H
pg/mL
Reference Range:
ADULTS: < OR = 29

My most recent bloodwork done 10 days ago while on clomid/nolva

ESTRADIOL, FREE
0.77 H
pg/mL
Reference Range: ADULTS: < OR = 0.45

ESTRADIOL
30 H
pg/mLReference Range: ADULTS: < OR = 29

Out of Range FSH
CURRENT RANGEOVER TIME
FSH
45.3 H
1.6-8.0 mIU/mL

Out of Range LH
CURRENT RANGEOVER TIME
LH
40.5 H
1.5-9.3 mIU/mL

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS
854
Range: 250-1100 ng/dL

FREE TESTOSTERONE
223.4 H
Range: 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

PROLACTIN
11.6
Range: 2.0-18.0 ng/mL
 
2 tren cycles at age 17, wow, oh well thats water under the bridge.
I dont see any mention of hcg. have you used it at all?
 
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Does viagra or cialis work? No libido or do you have ED? There is a big difference. Sorry for your troubles bro. Need more info
 
I think you have some positive things going for you. In the initial blood test LH and FSH were at what would be normal levels, so seems your hypothalamus is working ok which I think is very good news. Bad news is your nuts don't seem to be doing much at all. Another piece of good news is your age, that should help.

In the second blood test when LH and FSH were off the charts you were making 854 total test, which again is good news they can produce, but bad news is takes LH and FSH in the 40's to make it happen.

I'm suprised the endo said nothing is out of whack at 287 total test. You can see in the chart below that corresponds to the bottom of the range for somebody 75 years old. I don't think he's doing you much of a service.

View attachment 567591

So as far as what to do, the only thing I know is some variation of the power PCT. It starts with a run of HCG. Duration is depending on how you respond, with the measures being ball size and total testosterone via blood testing. The basic is 10 days at 1,000 IU/day, but I suspect in your case that won't be near long enough. I'd suggest you be prepared to go four, five, six or whatever weeks it takes. Get blood testing after two weeks, and every week after, and see what your testosterone production is doing. Some people say beware of desensitizing your balls from the HCG high doses and long durations, and others say that has been debunked - don't know what to tell you about that, but I do believe getting your balls working again is job #1. There is some chance this won't work if natural LH and FSH in the 40's from your clomid and nolva run didn't work, but I'd damn sure try it.

One of the veterans on here also used IGF1-LR3 during a PCT after a multi-year run and felt it helped him recover. It's pretty inexpensive and definitely worth adding in. Dosage varies per person, and you'll find advice on the web all over the place. Some folks use as low at 20 mcg/day and find it effective, while others use as much a 100 mcg/day. This is one where more is definitely not better, so I'd recommend trying 50 mcg/day. A 1mg bottle will last you 20 days at that rate. I'd suggest taking this from day 1 and continuously through the HCG and clomid/nolva stages, and continuing after if you choose.

Then following the HCG run do another run of clomid and nolva. What ever doses you were taking to put your LH and FSH in the 40's and TT at 854 should be effective. 50 clomid and 40 nolva is a high post cycle dose, with no injected AAS in your case something like 25 & 20 might be just fine too. Duration I'd shoot for six weeks and see where that put me.

For diet make sure you are taking vitamin D supplements, and don't skimp on them. Without knowing your blood levels it's hard to say how much, but at least 5,000 IU/day. If you are low then 10,000 IU/day. With high dose vitamin D3 it is a good idea to take vitamin K2 along with it. Also take magnesium and zinc. You can get ZMA capsules for the last two. And finally fish oil, probably three big gel caps per day, and eat lots of saturated fats. You need cholesterol at the base of your steroid production tree, so lots of healthy fats.

To sum up

HCG 1,000 IU/day for a period that depends on when your balls start producing large amounts of test. Can't be more specific here, you'll need blood
testing along the way to feel your way through this one. It's not super expensive, so get more than you think you'll need.

IGF1-LR3 50 mcg/day for the whole duration, and beyond. Might just want to try this for four to six months or so.

Nolva and clomid like you did before. Go for a good long duration, last few weeks drop the dosage by half.

For estrogen you might want to pick up some aromasin. If all that HCG and clomid/nolva jacks your test way up you can take a very small dose to keep things leveled out. Be careful though, I wouldn't take more than 5mg EOD at a TT around 1,000 or so, and perhaps half that would work.

For prolactin, this one is tricky. 15 is too high, but at the top of the range. I've seen that a fair bit from people who have had problems from 19-nors like tren and deca. The meds to keep it down like caber, prami, and bromo are no joke and should not be used without extreme caution. If you feel you need it take very small doses and monitor with your blood testing. Drop it as soon as you can.

Good luck, and keep us posted. We would like to hear a success story here.
 
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I think you have some positive things going for you. In the initial blood test LH and FSH were at what would be normal levels, so seems your hypothalamus is working ok which I think is very good news. Bad news is your nuts don't seem to be doing much at all. Another piece of good news is your age, that should help.

In the second blood test when LH and FSH were off the charts you were making 854 total test, which again is good news they can produce, but bad news is takes LH and FSH in the 40's to make it happen.

I'm suprised the endo said nothing is out of whack at 287 total test. You can see in the chart below that corresponds to the bottom of the range for somebody 75 years old. I don't think he's doing you much of a service.

View attachment 567591

So as far as what to do, the only thing I know is some variation of the power PCT. It starts with a run of HCG. Duration is depending on how you respond, with the measures being ball size and total testosterone via blood testing. The basic is 10 days at 1,000 IU/day, but I suspect in your case that won't be near long enough. I'd suggest you be prepared to go four, five, six or whatever weeks it takes. Get blood testing after two weeks, and every week after, and see what your testosterone production is doing. Some people say beware of desensitizing your balls from the HCG high doses and long durations, and others say that has been debunked - don't know what to tell you about that, but I do believe getting your balls working again is job #1. There is some chance this won't work if natural LH and FSH in the 40's from your clomid and nolva run didn't work, but I'd damn sure try it.

One of the veterans on here also used IGF1-LR3 during a PCT after a multi-year run and felt it helped him recover. It's pretty inexpensive and definitely worth adding in. Dosage varies per person, and you'll find advice on the web all over the place. Some folks use as low at 20 mcg/day and find it effective, while others use as much a 100 mcg/day. This is one where more is definitely not better, so I'd recommend trying 50 mcg/day. A 1mg bottle will last you 20 days at that rate. I'd suggest taking this from day 1 and continuously through the HCG and clomid/nolva stages, and continuing after if you choose.

Then following the HCG run do another run of clomid and nolva. What ever doses you were taking to put your LH and FSH in the 40's and TT at 854 should be effective. 50 clomid and 40 nolva is a high post cycle dose, with no injected AAS in your case something like 25 & 20 might be just fine too. Duration I'd shoot for six weeks and see where that put me.

For diet make sure you are taking vitamin D supplements, and don't skimp on them. Without knowing your blood levels it's hard to say how much, but at least 5,000 IU/day. If you are low then 10,000 IU/day. With high dose vitamin D3 it is a good idea to take vitamin K2 along with it. Also take magnesium and zinc. You can get ZMA capsules for the last two. And finally fish oil, probably three big gel caps per day, and eat lots of saturated fats. You need cholesterol at the base of your steroid production tree, so lots of healthy fats.

To sum up

HCG 1,000 IU/day for a period that depends on when your balls start producing large amounts of test. Can't be more specific here, you'll need blood
testing along the way to feel your way through this one. It's not super expensive, so get more than you think you'll need.

IGF1-LR3 50 mcg/day for the whole duration, and beyond. Might just want to try this for four to six months or so.

Nolva and clomid like you did before. Go for a good long duration, last few weeks drop the dosage by half.

For estrogen you might want to pick up some aromasin. If all that HCG and clomid/nolva jacks your test way up you can take a very small dose to keep things leveled out. Be careful though, I wouldn't take more than 5mg EOD at a TT around 1,000 or so, and perhaps half that would work.

For prolactin, this one is tricky. 15 is too high, but at the top of the range. I've seen that a fair bit from people who have had problems from 19-nors like tren and deca. The meds to keep it down like caber, prami, and bromo are no joke and should not be used without extreme caution. If you feel you need it take very small doses and monitor with your blood testing. Drop it as soon as you can.

Good luck, and keep us posted. We would like to hear a success story here.
Took the words out of my mouth, Thanks Tankmansir!
 
I'm very doubtful there's much hope with using hcg since my fsh and lh seem fine. I will try it though. Any idea why I have no libido from seemingly decent numbers? Is it because the numbers are from the clomid and nolva and not reflective of my body naturally or something? I'm taking prami and a little aromasin now to try and slightly lower those.
 
I think you make a good point. The HCG would be an artificial type of LH, while your present clomid and nolva protocol has your LH and FSH in the 40's, which is super high.

So the argument could be made to forget the HCG and stay on your clomid & nolva for an extended period.
 
Is that prolactin number high anyone? I dont have any experience with that particular issue but I've heard high prolactin can impact both libido and ability to orgasm.
That's the only place I can think to look. My doctor says libido is the LAST thing you lose when testosterone levels drop.He claims that of your levels are really low then you see all other symptoms manifest first. Three guys I work with would eventually confirm this info for me. All three had very low testosterone and none of them noticed libido issues. And conversely, I notice no libido changes until I'm on cycle and my levels are triple a high normal. So.......it is my belief that libido is way more tricky than simply looking at test or estrogen levels.
Keep in mind, I am understanding what you are saying to mean you have no sexual desire. Is that a correct impression? HUGE difference between desire, ability to achieve erection, and ability to climax. They are three linked but very different issues. Just want to make sure you dont try to address the wrong problem. I know I've already asked for clarification but I just want to be sure. Because as you've said, your numbers look pretty good and should not cause desire issues.

And again.....sorry for your situation bro. It WILL get better. Just may take time
 
Yes, no sexual desire. I think I'm ready to be put on trt I've been taking clomid and nolva for almost 2 and a half months now to no avail.
 
So clomid gets your test level to 800? And you still think testosterone is to blame for the libido issues? Hope someone can make sense of this for you. Sorry for your issues bro. If I were in your shoes I'd take cialis when my level was at 800 and see if I could perform. If not.....I would look at my estrogen levels and consider an ai. If anastrozole and clomid didnt help then I would go on trt and try the cialis again. Not sure what's goin on with you bro. If you find a solution please come back and post it.....others may be able to benefit.

If you're into anabolics then I'd give proviron a try. I hear it can work miracles in this department. Best of luck to you bro
 
Yes, no sexual desire. I think I'm ready to be put on trt I've been taking clomid and nolva for almost 2 and a half months now to no avail.

Two and a half months is not a long time at all, though I guess at your age it seems an eternity. Whether you decide to stick with clomid/nolva or do the HCG extended run there is a very good chance either option will take an extended period of time. You need to get those balls working, so if it takes 6 months or a year, then that's what it takes.

At 21 TRT should be your very very last option. How disapointed would you be if an endo put you on a TRT routine that put your test at 800 and you still had all the same symptoms? Very real possibility, plus TRT has some other nasty impacts on fertility and other things. Your best option is to sort out the primary hypogonadism, then failing that something like clomid or HCG mono therapy would be next.

We also didn't talk about exercise, and I gave you some diet pointers for things to make sure you are getting. Those things take time too, and you'd be very unwise to skip them.
 
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I have been taking zma along with vitamin d e and b6 for a good while now. Does anyone know what the "ideal" range for prolactin in men is? After I saw it was 15 I've been taking prami it went down to 11 after almost a month of prami .5mg ed. I've had prami before and it would make me throw up in small amounts this prami I have now though when I first got it I took 1 whole mg just to see if it was legit and I didn't get sick at all like I thought I should. The prami does make me pretty tired though. It took me from 15 to 11 after roughly 3 weeks but is there a chance my prami is underdosed or something considering no matter how much I take it doesn't make me sick? Also I've been taking aromasin the past few weeks as I read it won't leave me with an estrogen rebound as opposed to adex. Also the past 2 weeks I've just been taking nolva since I read your body develops a tolerance to clomid and I was taking some pretty high doses for a while. I'm going to start it back up again and keep on with the nolva.

Thank you guys for your help I really appreciate it. I'm glad there's a place where you can exchange knowledge and dumbfucks like me can get some help. Really do appreciate this guys!
 
I have been taking zma along with vitamin d e and b6 for a good while now. Does anyone know what the "ideal" range for prolactin in men is? After I saw it was 15 I've been taking prami it went down to 11 after almost a month of prami .5mg ed. I've had prami before and it would make me throw up in small amounts this prami I have now though when I first got it I took 1 whole mg just to see if it was legit and I didn't get sick at all like I thought I should. The prami does make me pretty tired though. It took me from 15 to 11 after roughly 3 weeks but is there a chance my prami is underdosed or something considering no matter how much I take it doesn't make me sick? Also I've been taking aromasin the past few weeks as I read it won't leave me with an estrogen rebound as opposed to adex. Also the past 2 weeks I've just been taking nolva since I read your body develops a tolerance to clomid and I was taking some pretty high doses for a while. I'm going to start it back up again and keep on with the nolva.

Thank you guys for your help I really appreciate it. I'm glad there's a place where you can exchange knowledge and dumbfucks like me can get some help. Really do appreciate this guys!

How is it going after two years? Have you recovered?
 
I have been taking zma along with vitamin d e and b6 for a good while now. Does anyone know what the "ideal" range for prolactin in men is? After I saw it was 15 I've been taking prami it went down to 11 after almost a month of prami .5mg ed. I've had prami before and it would make me throw up in small amounts this prami I have now though when I first got it I took 1 whole mg just to see if it was legit and I didn't get sick at all like I thought I should. The prami does make me pretty tired though. It took me from 15 to 11 after roughly 3 weeks but is there a chance my prami is underdosed or something considering no matter how much I take it doesn't make me sick? Also I've been taking aromasin the past few weeks as I read it won't leave me with an estrogen rebound as opposed to adex. Also the past 2 weeks I've just been taking nolva since I read your body develops a tolerance to clomid and I was taking some pretty high doses for a while. I'm going to start it back up again and keep on with the nolva.

Thank you guys for your help I really appreciate it. I'm glad there's a place where you can exchange knowledge and dumbfucks like me can get some help. Really do appreciate this guys!
hows it going now dude?
 
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