22 YO / 5'7 / 146lbs /7 YEARS Exp. FRUSTRATED

[Railingz]

Hey guys, first let me introduce myself to give you some background.

I am from the UK, I stand at 5'7, weigh in at 146lbs and I am currently 22 years old. I have been weight training since I was 15, I joined upto my local gym after visiting with the school and been hooked since.

However even though I may have 7 years of "training experience" under my belt, I barely look like I lift, left alone for 7 years. As you can imagine this has bought much frustration and quite frankly ANGER! Constantly wondering WHAT IF, why do I make no gains and why do I even bother? Truth is I love weight training and I am almost certain if my body allows it I will continue for much of my life.

It's habit, lifestyle and I wouldn't know what else to do with spare time. I do not go out to drink, in fact I've never really gotten into drinking, so I may drink occasionally on holidays, even though I pass up on the alcohol to help "gains". I eat right and would like to think that I train smart.

I have journals and journals of old workout logs dating back to 3 years ago, I also have been tracking calories for around the same amount of time. Whilst I work an active job my TDEE has been plenty higher than what it should for someone with my stats, however it hasn't stopped me and I have been able to up my food intake and even consume as much as 5.5k daily. Granted when I ate that much, I got upto around 170lbs and was pretty fat. Ever since that mistake I have tried to lean gain, which seems to be very difficult for me to pinpoint.

I seem to gain fat very quickly, even if the scale doesn't relate, which leaves me confused and a couple of months down the road ... FAT. I have tried different workout routines, PHAT, Blood & Guts and I am currently on my 8th cycle with 5/3/1. I have also in this time, hit gym 3x a week, 4x a week and even 6x a week. I've hit muscle groups once, twice and three times a week. I have an understanding of what to do and how things work, yet when I put them into action I get nothing in return. Which is what bought me here as I decided when I turn 24 I want to run a few cycles, to finally see some well deserved gains.


- Anyways I am rambling and before noone decides to read this, I'll stop. Any advice, questions and such? I really appreciate all help received!

 

[CptFKNplanet]

You obviously aren't eating enough. I'm the same height as you, 30lbs heavier, and have only been training for 4 years. Eat more, train harder.

 

[Railingz]

You obviously aren't eating enough. I'm the same height as you, 30lbs heavier, and have only been training for 4 years. Eat more, train harder.

I knew this would be the type of response that I would get.

Let me try to explain a bit more. I clearly eat enough because when I am on a bulking diet I get fat. I've been on diets from 3.3k a day to 5.5k a day. After months of following said diet, not skipping meals or anything, meeting my daily target EACH DAY I just get fat.

Okay so it might be not training hard enough? I don't do anything else, training is my THING. I go to work, come home, chill and to gym on Saturday nights by myself. It's what I do, I train hard and heavy. I record every workout, each set, each rep and I focus on progressive overload, constantly adding reps or weights to each exercise.

Yet I find myself progressing, then somehow ending up just as weak as I was once before. It is legit madness.

 

[DreDay187]

Progressive overload is where it's at. I guarantee you your diet can be tweaked a bit. If you can gain fat you can gain muscle (barring a medical condition). Post up your TDEE, , macro profile, and a proposed bulking diet, it'll be easier to see where you're going wrong with diet. The reason you're not making much progress is like CptFCKPlanet said, you can't build muscle without an excess of calories. At 146lbs you're short changing your progress in the gym. Put up the info I asked for and we'll go from there. Don't get frustrated, get motivated lol

Edit* post up your diet in the diet section so 3J can add in his $.02 and the training you do in this thread.

 

[Railingz]

I'll update this more in the morning however. I recently cut and had been reverse dieting back up until I started seeing the scales move.

I am on

3300 cals a day
450-460g carbs
90-95g fat
160-170g protein

Again I've had diets in the past where I have eaten MUCH MORE. I've had diets where I've eaten much more protein with the same calories, etc etc.

My TDEE is 3k a day. That's a 300 calories surplus a day. However sunday is around 2.2k-2.5k but I still eat 3.3k for the extra calories whilst bulking.


Also that's what I have always thought when people have told me to eat more. Well if I have gotten fat, then I am a calorie surplus and in theory should be able to gain muscle. Especially when I was gaining in excess of 1lb a week.

I'll get some pics up see what you think.

 

[Railingz]

Quick brief.

Back in the day at 14-15. I was training at this point, however it was just home indoor workouts and such

I had gone up n down in weight a lot, but this was my heaviest it's where I decided to up the calories to 5.5k, cheat days etc and just see where it goes.

Got really depressed, cut a lot of weight and ended up back at 140 and haven't really been anywhere since even though it's almost been 2 years.

 

[DreDay187]

Dude I looked at a few of your pics and I have to say you don't look bad for 146lbs. Maybe not where you want to be but I was expecting A LOT less muscle mass. Your frustration will only hinder your results so use it to fuel your motivation. I remember you from the other thread you made where I responded, I meant no ill will in that other thread but sincerely trying to help you. So let's start with the basics quickly and move on from there (and again not to insult you by starting at the basics but to exhaust every possible issue that may be overlooked). You said your TDEE is 3000calories. I plugged your stats into a BMR calculator and your BMR is around 1700calories. That means if your TDEE is accurate you have a ~1.75 activity factor which is sky high. Some athletes don't even use an activity factor that high. You said you're a postal worker which i imagine involves carrying a big ass bag for long distances. I work a very physical job myself and use an activity factor of 1.5. So my first question is, are you sure the TDEE is accurate? Have you eaten 3000calories for 2+wks and checked to see if you maintained you weight, or gained or lost? This is the first thing to check. If you're absolutely positive 3k is your TDEE we can move on if not test it out by eating at that caloric intake for at least 2wks and checking he scale in the morning on an empty stomach after any bathroom trips to see how your weight changes if at all. The second thing to consider is that when you start to bulk, the first weight changes come from increased muscle and liver glycogen and water weight from carbs (carb intake can alter how much water you hold). This weight is not to be confused with muscle or fat BUT can make you look bloated. Bloated is not fat so don't be concerned too much with it. So when you say you gained fat and very little or no muscle, how long have your bulks been? 5wks, 10wks, 6months? As a natty trainer, if you gain 1lb/wk, you can expect at best to gain roughly half muscle half fat. That depends on macros and training. Any more than 1lb/wk gain and most of it will go to fat so there might be another source of problems bc you said at one point you gained more than a pound a week. A third thin to look at right now is possible hormone issues. Have you had bloodwork to check your thyroid, testosterone, and other hormones? If your T levels are low it could be another reason why you gain little muscle. Your macros look great and total out to around 3300 calories so if the macros and calories are accurate and youre weighing out the food properly, that shouldn't be the issue. If you wanted to you could increase protein slightly and reduce carbs but you have net minimum fat and protein requirements so that's not necessary.

I'll wait for your responses before going further. Lets make sure these factors are not the problem before goin into more detail. Also consider moving this to the diet forum so 3J (the diet guru) can also put his input in. He checks out the diet section on almost a daily basis. Lets leave this thread for your training aspect so put up your training routine and some of your 5RM of the big compound lifts like squat, deadlift, overhead press, bench etc. maybe we can tweak your training a little bit to get more out of it. Again I'll wait for your responses before going further but look at the positive in all this, you seem like a very very motivated fellow and motivation is the key to success. We can help with everything else but we cannot give you the motivation if you don't have it

 

[Railingz]

I have the motivation! It's all I want, like honestly. I never miss a gym session, if ever I have plans it's gym first plans later.

My TDEE is very high, yes when I was reverse dieting, I bumped it up like 2.6k a day for a week no gains, 2.8k a week no gains, 3k no gains. So now I'm on 3.3k.

My lifts are VERY weak for my experience, but maybe not so bad for my weight.

Deadlift - 160kgs 1RM
Squat - 110kg 1RM.
OHP - 62.5kg 1RM
Bench - 105kg 1rm

I've never had blood work done and would really like to. However I mean I get erections fine, sex drive is there I do feel quite tired at times but I don't show any real symptoms of low T. However I was premature by quite a bit and maybe this could of had an impact.

 

[DreDay187]

I have the motivation! It's all I want, like honestly. I never miss a gym session, if ever I have plans it's gym first plans later.

My TDEE is very high, yes when I was reverse dieting, I bumped it up like 2.6k a day for a week no gains, 2.8k a week no gains, 3k no gains. So now I'm on 3.3k.

My lifts are VERY weak for my experience, but maybe not so bad for my weight.

Deadlift - 160kgs 1RM
Squat - 110kg 1RM.
OHP - 62.5kg 1RM
Bench - 105kg 1rm

I've never had blood work done and would really like to. However I mean I get erections fine, sex drive is there I do feel quite tired at times but I don't show any real symptoms of low T. However I was premature by quite a bit and maybe this could of had an impact.

Ok, trusting you counted everything right, it's not a miscalculation in regards to TDEE. Now you're on 3300calories, how much weight are you gaining? If you're natty I would aim for 1-1.5lbs/wk with the 1.5lbs/wk being the absolute most. At that rate you'll experience more fat gain than at 1lb/wk but I could help with your strength increases substantially. Your deadlift isn't too bad but your squat and bench are TOO close together. This means you're working your bench much more aggressively than squat or you're not working squat out enough (frequency, intensity, volume). What does your lifting regimen look like and what is your primary goal with lifting:mass, strength, ripped? If strength is number one I can suggest quite a few programs that would help you there (mass would be increased as well)

Also, just so I know, are you going to make the diet thread or should we keep talking both diet and training in here?

I'm honestly not sure how being born premature would affect any of this but if I had to guess it would be very little if any. There are many more symptoms to low T than just sex drive and erections and not everyone experiences the same sides. It could be your sex drive is great but muscle building capabilities are hindered. Hypothyroidism is linked with lower basal metabolic rates (you may not experience this bc of your job and activities but it could also hinder muscle building). No matter what you feel, go to the doctor or a clinic and try to get testosterone, estrogen, T3, T4, TSH, LH and whatever else you can tested. Rule out a hormonal issue bc we can have everything else perfect but your hormones could screw everything up.

 

[tbonexl]

Long story short: your diet sucks.. not enuff protein.. your getting fat from all the carbs...

 

[DreDay187]

Long story short: your diet sucks.. not enuff protein.. your getting fat from all the carbs...

Short story long: you have no clue about nutrition apparently. Protein is well above the minimum requirements for positive net protein synthesis and carbs don't make you fat directly. But thanks for stopping by

 

[Railingz]

Ok, trusting you counted everything right, it's not a miscalculation in regards to TDEE. Now you're on 3300calories, how much weight are you gaining? If you're natty I would aim for 1-1.5lbs/wk with the 1.5lbs/wk being the absolute most. At that rate you'll experience more fat gain than at 1lb/wk but I could help with your strength increases substantially. Your deadlift isn't too bad but your squat and bench are TOO close together. This means you're working your bench much more aggressively than squat or you're not working squat out enough (frequency, intensity, volume). What does your lifting regimen look like and what is your primary goal with lifting:mass, strength, ripped? If strength is number one I can suggest quite a few programs that would help you there (mass would be increased as well)

Also, just so I know, are you going to make the diet thread or should we keep talking both diet and training in here?

I'm honestly not sure how being born premature would affect any of this but if I had to guess it would be very little if any. There are many more symptoms to low T than just sex drive and erections and not everyone experiences the same sides. It could be your sex drive is great but muscle building capabilities are hindered. Hypothyroidism is linked with lower basal metabolic rates (you may not experience this bc of your job and activities but it could also hinder muscle building). No matter what you feel, go to the doctor or a clinic and try to get testosterone, estrogen, T3, T4, TSH, LH and whatever else you can tested. Rule out a hormonal issue bc we can have everything else perfect but your hormones could screw everything up.

Weight gain has been 2lbs in just over a month. The thing with squatting is an unrelated issue with flat feet, that cause my calfs to cramp and I get huge pain. I still work legs just have had months, weeks where I haven't been able to squat.

I want to gain size and strength, preferably size over strength. But I would defiantly like some good numbers on the compound lifts! I am currently on 5/3/1 have been running this for 9 months. An example back workout is deadlifts 5/3/1. 4 Sets of TBAR rows adding weight each time I hit 10,10,10,10 and not until. Weighted chins 3x10 again same principle weight is upped when sets of 10 are completed. Then I did some back extensions and BB shrugs. This is fairly light volume, I had run Layne Nortons PHAT for around 9 months so I have varied the rep ranges, sets and such.

I should get blood work done, not sure what to ask for? I can't say Doctor I need a blood test because I am not making gains can I lol?

Long story short: your diet sucks.. not enuff protein.. your getting fat from all the carbs...

mmm

Short story long: you have no clue about nutrition apparently. Protein is well above the minimum requirements for positive net protein synthesis and carbs don't make you fat directly. But thanks for stopping by

This

 

[CptFKNplanet]

Weight gain has been 2lbs in just over a month.

This right here is progress. It may not be as fast as you think it should be, but it is still progress nonetheless. The ONLY way to make the weight come faster is to eat more EVERY day. Bottom line. Trust me man, I was in your shoes just a couple years back, couldn't gain weight to save my fucking life. I thought I was eating enough, training hard enough, blah blah blah. Then I said fuck it and went on a straight up fast food diet, breakfast, lunch and dinner DAILY. I was taking in an excess of 6k calories at 150lbs which is obviously WAY more than I needed to grow. Nevertheless, the weight started pouring on and I was up to 170 in no time. Now did I get fat? You bet your sweet tits I did. Did I add muscle? Yes. Would I recommend you do this? Probably not. The point is that you need to eat more. There is no way you are eating "enough" and not growing. It's physically impossible. Fuck getting a blood test, eat more fucking food. Buy some measuring cups and a food scale, track every goddamn calorie you put in your mouth and go grow.

 

[Railingz]

This right here is progress. It may not be as fast as you think it should be, but it is still progress nonetheless. The ONLY way to make the weight come faster is to eat more EVERY day. Bottom line. Trust me man, I was in your shoes just a couple years back, couldn't gain weight to save my fucking life. I thought I was eating enough, training hard enough, blah blah blah. Then I said fuck it and went on a straight up fast food diet, breakfast, lunch and dinner DAILY. I was taking in an excess of 6k calories at 150lbs which is obviously WAY more than I needed to grow. Nevertheless, the weight started pouring on and I was up to 170 in no time. Now did I get fat? You bet your sweet tits I did. Did I add muscle? Yes. Would I recommend you do this? Probably not. The point is that you need to eat more. There is no way you are eating "enough" and not growing. It's physically impossible. Fuck getting a blood test, eat more fucking food. Buy some measuring cups and a food scale, track every goddamn calorie you put in your mouth and go grow.

Don't want to come across as rude. However let me point out that I have been 170lbs, was I stronger then or had more muscle not really.

The only weight I can seem to gain is fat. If I am gaining, then yes I am eating enough. If I aint building muscle, then the workouts will be the problem right? Well I never skip a workout, I am heavily focused in the gym and I push myself hard. WHILST using progressive overload to PROGRESS.

Yet it doesn't work. Another 6 months down the line I'll be only slightly stronger, a lot fatter and will have to cut again and be at square 1 all over again.

 

[CptFKNplanet]

That just seems hard to believe to me. I've never heard of someone onlygaining fat. You have to remember, as I believe Doc said above, that as a natural trainee in your first year of training you will be lucky to put on ~25lbs of LBM. Also remember LBM is not pure muscle. You said you've been training 7 years... well for most people you're looking at about 2-3lb gain PER YEAR naturally if everything is done to the T. However, given the fact that you are only 146lbs... something just isn't right here. Either you're lying to us, or to yourself... or both. If you end up "back at square one" after you cut, maybe you're running your cuts wrong. You shouldn't lose every single gain made during a cut. You may hit the same body weight as when you started, but should at least be leaner at that weight. Like I said, something just isn't right. There's no way you can be eating, sleeping, and training correctly for 7 years and still have your stats... even naturally.

Also, I just looked at your pics and you do look pretty damn good for 146. In the end, weight is just a number. It really comes down to what you look like.

 

[DreDay187]

Railingz, at work now so can't give you detailed responses but I'll check in here later tonight. We're all here trying to help you man. Keep that head up

 

[DreDay187]

Weight gain has been 2lbs in just over a month. The thing with squatting is an unrelated issue with flat feet, that cause my calfs to cramp and I get huge pain. I still work legs just have had months, weeks where I haven't been able to squat.

I want to gain size and strength, preferably size over strength. But I would defiantly like some good numbers on the compound lifts! I am currently on 5/3/1 have been running this for 9 months. An example back workout is deadlifts 5/3/1. 4 Sets of TBAR rows adding weight each time I hit 10,10,10,10 and not until. Weighted chins 3x10 again same principle weight is upped when sets of 10 are completed. Then I did some back extensions and BB shrugs. This is fairly light volume, I had run Layne Nortons PHAT for around 9 months so I have varied the rep ranges, sets and such.

I should get blood work done, not sure what to ask for? I can't say Doctor I need a blood test because I am not making gains can I lol?



mmm



This

2lbs/month is a slow and steady pace. Nothing wrong with 2-4lbs/month as a natty lifter. It might slow strength and mass gains at 2lbs slightly but you're making up for that with slightly less fat gains. Ok so you're calories are good. Try playing with the macros slightly. Lower carbs by 20-40g and increase the protein to compensate. Your fat macro is good but what kinds of fat are you taking in and how much of each?

I believe they make special inserts for flat feet that help with the pain. See what you can do in regards to that bc every program should have squats in It. I understand your pain may be severe and that's why you have to take time off but look into the inserts or different types of shoes maybe that can help with that and keep you squatting. I'm not too familiar with the problem so you'll have to look into it a bit.

5/3/1 is a great program but progression is a bit slower than others. Have you looked into Bill Star's or Madcow's 5x5 or Mark Rippetoe's Texas Method? All 3 have faster rates of progression. I've done the Madcow 5x5 before and was able to add pretty good mass (with a good bulking diet obviously) and very happy with the strength gains (10lbs/wk at first then tapering down to 5lbs/wk but continued for weeks on end). Once I started plateauing I would delaod 10% and work my way back up and i also figured out my sticking points on each lift and added some assistance exercises to help address those points (these shouldn't interfere with main lifts though and should be compound lifts preferably).

Are you doing any cardio? If so how much?

Ask the doctor for a hormone test. Tell him you're experiencing sides you believe to be related to low T. Where are you from? In the US you can do privatemdlabs to order your own tests.

As a natty you can expect to gain about 2-4lbs muscle per month best case scenario. So if you're gaining only 2lbs/month it's not 2lbs of muscle. You'll have to bulk for a good 6months or so at this rate to put on enough muscle to make a cut worthwhile.

What are your calories and macros when you cut? Again unless there's a low T or thyroid problem, with a caloric excess and solid training you should be gaining muscle. If you're cutting wrong though you'll end up losing it.

 

[Railingz]

I have thought about switching it ups. Also admittedly I could do with more "healthy" fats from almonds and such.

I have these, I really need to go to the doctors and get it sorted, however I tend to just get on with things rather than going to doctors, especially as they're crap over here in the united kingdom.

5/3/1 Has been good, but I have stalled so I have took a step back (deload 10% as you said).

I COULD use some help with accessory work defiantly. In fact I have recently been chopping and changing to see if I notice any benefits.

I do DB press, lateral raises for shoulders.
I do Tbar rows, weighted chins, back extensions and shrugs
I do weighted dips, incline db and flyes for chest
I do front squats, leg press, Glute ham raise and extensions for legs.

I also do biceps with chest and triceps with shoulders. I used to do a bit more volume but as said, I've chopped some things to see if a less is more approach works? It's pretty annoying and I just wish I knew a direction that would work. With the accessory work I do either 3 or 4 sets and use progressive overload.

So example 4 sets of DB press. When I hit 4x12 I will up the weight.

I do cardio all day whilst working. I also do 5-10 min of running or jogging whilst at the gym each day.

Yeah I think maybe my cuts are bad, maybe bulks are too short. I always seem to be in the middle no matter how long I do things. Too skinny to cut, too fat to bulk. Perhaps a lot is to do with the difference in water and body composition giving me the impression that I am fatter than what I am sometimes.


With the calories, I just taper it down until I see progress. I was recently able to cut on 2800k a day. With some extra cardio on workout days.

 

[Railingz]

Don't give up on me, felt we were getting somewhere!

 

[DreDay187]

Don't give up on me, felt we were getting somewhere!

Sorry brother, must have missed your response somehow