Add Anavar to Letro?

[fedwin]

I’ve been taking letro for almost a year (now on about .4 mg daily), and am happy with it and healthy. I’ve never done a cycle before, and realize that the following is not ideal, but…

I have 100 10mg tabs of oxandrolone that I have to either use in the next 3 ½ weeks or throw in the trash. Two questions:

1. Will taking 50 mgs per day for 20 days be a long enough cycle to see any significant strength increase? It seems like most people run it for 6-8 weeks.


2. Since I am already on letro, is there any point to doing a Nolvadex post cycle therapy (pct)? From what I recall Nolvadex actually reduces the effectiveness of letro or vice-versa.


I am not a bodybuilder, and am nowhere near my genetic potential, and realize any gains I make will be in strength, not mass. I also am aware that using Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) so far from my potential is the lazy ass shortcut way that gives steroid users a bad rap kind of use, and for that I apologize.

 

[JayC]

Stats please.. age, height, weight, training, goals, etc..???
..and why on gods green earth have you been on letro daily for a year but never on gear?? I'm very curious...

 

[GymLift]

Suppressing estrogen like that, long term, certainly isn't good for your health.

Have you at least been getting your cholesterol checked?

 

[fedwin]

I'm using letro as an antidepressant, and it helps more than anything else I've tried (which is well over 30 different meds by now, everything from the standard SSRIs to exotic antibiotics to Alzheimer’s meds.) I'm assuming it works because I had lowish T (low 400s) and higher than normal E (about 20 points above the normal range.)

I had blood work done about 2 months into it and things were great, and then a few months ago I had more tests done and things were still fine. I even asked the endos to give me a reason to not take letro long term (as long as my lipids were fine), and the best thing they could come up with was that I might be at higher risk for osteoporosis in a decade or two. But this assumes E driven too low, which mine hasn't been. My E2 was 26 (when taking .6 mg letro), in the middle of the range of 10 -55. I even asked them about Leydig cell desensitization, and they didn’t feel it was an issue.

I’m 36, 5’9”, 170, probably 20% bf. I got the oxandrolone at the same time I started letro, before I had done enough research. It’s just been sitting in my fridge, but I need to use it or lose it.

I’m just thinking I can keep adding 10 -15 lbs to my deadlift for the next three weeks before I drop back down. I’m also stepping up my HIIT to get down to 165 or so where I look regular, athletic guy lean, not bodybuilding lean, and I figured the Anavar (var) would keep the catabolism in check. Not expecting too much.

Again, I know that ideally I should train my ass off for another 2 years before I take the Anavar (var), but… it seems like a waste to bin it.

 

[fedwin]

Well, it has been a week, (30 mgs the first two days, then 50mgs every day since) and I've gained 6 pounds. And I don't feel particularly stronger. Isn't that the opposite of what is to be expected with anavar?

Either this is happening because I am so far from my potential or I am taking another more anabolic substance that was sold as anavar?

I can't even tell where the new 6 pounds is hiding...maybe my scale is just on the fritz.

 

[mcchunter]

re

post a picture of your anavar.

 

[fedwin]

sorry, I don't have a digital camera on hand.

It is Globalanabolics Glonavar, 1/4" in diameter, white, scored on on side, and on the other is an impression of a ringed planet.

 

[GymLift]

Your estrogen is probably going down right now because your serum testosterone will go down with the oxandrolone use.

5'9" 170 lbs 20% bf%, you simply need a better diet and a better routine.

 

[fedwin]

Your estrogen is probably going down right now because your serum testosterone will go down with the oxandrolone use.

I don't follow. How would my estrogen going down cause me to gain weight?

 

[GymLift]

I don't follow. How would my estrogen going down cause me to gain weight?

Oxandrolone use will cause your body to produce less testosterone. Less testosterone in your body means that there is less testosterone available to convert to estrogens.

 

[fedwin]

Oxandrolone use will cause your body to produce less testosterone. Less testosterone in your body means that there is less testosterone available to convert to estrogens.

I feel like an idiot, but I still don’t get what you are trying to say.

I understand that the hypothalamus sends out GnRH, which signals the pituitary to send out LH and FSH which cause the testes to produce testosterone and sperm. I also get that aromatase breaks down testosterone to estrogen, and that estrogen acts as negative feedback on the hypothalamus. I also know that testosterone itself, above a certain level, and other steroids, act as negative feedback. I’m also aware that estrogen plays an anabolic role, and that driving it to zero would inhibit strength and mass gains.


Assuming the var has thrown a wrench in the HPTA works, I still don’t see the relationship between decreased estrogen and an increase in bodyweight (either muscle or fat or both.)

Are you saying that my estrogen has gone low enough that I am not getting the strength benefits of Anavar (var)? I don’t feel weaker, just normal.

 

[juced_porkchop]

test converts to estro less test less estro.
this is what i think you should do drop all the crap stop the fukin letro "taper off"
go see a phycitarist and go see a endo!!! you have low test go on hrt that would probibly SOLVE!!! the depression iv never herd of some ones dealing with there low test levels by lowering there estrogen levels so wut have you done?? now u have 2 horomones that are too low. never mind deppresion meds thats to cover bup the prob and milk your$ deal with the PROBLIM. if you have low test that could be the vary RESONE your depressed and lowering your estro wont do SHIT.

good luck!!

 

[GymLift]

I feel like an idiot, but I still don’t get what you are trying to say.

I understand that the hypothalamus sends out GnRH, which signals the pituitary to send out LH and FSH which cause the testes to produce testosterone and sperm. I also get that aromatase breaks down testosterone to estrogen, and that estrogen acts as negative feedback on the hypothalamus. I also know that testosterone itself, above a certain level, and other steroids, act as negative feedback. I’m also aware that estrogen plays an anabolic role, and that driving it to zero would inhibit strength and mass gains.


Assuming the var has thrown a wrench in the HPTA works, I still don’t see the relationship between decreased estrogen and an increase in bodyweight (either muscle or fat or both.)

Are you saying that my estrogen has gone low enough that I am not getting the strength benefits of Anavar (var)? I don’t feel weaker, just normal.

Oxandrolone acts as negative feedback as well.

You aren't gaining weight because of the lowered estrogen. You are gaining weight because of the direct effects of the oxandrolone itself.

 

[juced_porkchop]

bump

 

[Tapeworm]

I agree that any further depression of estrogen is not causing weight gain. I guess you could be getting some from the var but I can't attribute 6 lbs in one week to it, particularly if there's no strength gains. Var is mild, not the sort of drug that's going to pack 6 lbs on you in one week.

6 lbs in a week is water. Is it possible that the var is negating the effects of Letro, raising E and water? Is your var really dbol or drol? Have you changed your diet, added cals & carbs? Have you measuered your weight every day at the same time and seen a steady climb through the week, or just taken one measurement? Are you drinking a lot more water than normal because you're dieting? This 6 lb gain does not compute.

 

[fedwin]

Var is mild, not the sort of drug that's going to pack 6 lbs on you in one week.

6 lbs in a week is water.

Is your var really dbol or drol? Have you changed your diet, added cals & carbs? Have you measuered your weight every day at the same time and seen a steady climb through the week, or just taken one measurement? Are you drinking a lot more water than normal because you're dieting? This 6 lb gain does not compute.

It has been a steady 1 lb gain per day. I've been drinking two extra protein shakes every day, and at least 2 gallons of water. But urinating like every 30 minutes, so I don't feel bloated or anything. The largest source of sodium for me is skim milk, so if I am getting more than 1500 mg a day, I'd be surprised. I thought I was making the rookie mistake of not getting enough calories.

My skin has been getting very dry, and I broke out with a rash on my forearms, so I stopped the var and the letro. Took 40 mgs Nolva yesterday and today. The rash has almost disappeared.

If my weight drops just as quickly as I gained it, I assume that would prove it was just water, right?

I did notice an increase in muscular endurance (Kettlebell swings and tabata squats felt easier) and my forearms got seriously pumped up doing leverage wrist pronations / supinations.

Anyway, the 6 lbs (actually up to 8 lbs on Sat morning), seemed to be what people report from 6-8 weeks of Anavar (var), not 6-8 days, so I was kind of shocked.

I've got a Dr appt in 2 days, and hopefully I can convince him to run a few blood tests to get some concrete answers. If I get any lab results I'll post em, and if my weight drops, I'll post that too.

Thanks for all your comments and ideas and patience with a dufus dilettante.

and Mrnank -- I see what you were getting at now. I was reading too much into your comments, like Ned Flanders seeing St. Barnabas in an oil stain.

Ohh man, I almost forgot about this... my right bicep tendon is pain free for the first time in almost 2 years. Either those wrist pronations are doing the trick (have been doing them 3x a week for the past 3 weeks) or I was taking real var and my collagen synthesis went through the roof. If the pain stays away, this will have been the “Best Self-medication Ever!”

 

[GymLift]

At your size, I do think that the anavar can be giving you positive effects in the muscle dept.

 

[fedwin]

At your size, I do think that the anavar can be giving you positive effects in the muscle dept.

If it is really 8 lbs of muscle, I can see that Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) are more addictive than heroin.

 

[GymLift]

A small guy can take steroids and hardly even workout and gain 25 pounds of muscle. Of course, he'll loose the muscle unless he learns how to eat and lift.

But as you gain muscle, it gets harder and harder to gain more.

 

[Tapeworm]

If my weight drops just as quickly as I gained it, I assume that would prove it was just water, right?

If it's from sodium, then yes. If it's estrogen related, it will take awhile for the water weight to slide off.

If it is really 8 lbs of muscle, I can see that Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) are more addictive than heroin.

I agree with mranak that you have plenty of room to grow, but rest assured you are not gaining a lb of muscle per day or anywhere near it. Something else is going on and you'd be wise to find out what it is.

Did you get the oxandrolone by script? I've heard anavar is frequently counterfeit. This sounds like the effects of 50mg/day of dbol.

Why did you take Nolva? Oxandrolone is nonaromatizing. Dbol on the other hand...