Adex longterm : what to look for and when to stop

[Alpin]

Hello Gossamer,

Thanks for your response. What I am basing it on is a long list of studies which have been conducted on males/females and extrapolated that information to patients currently on TRT. Basically, if you read all information that is available, you should be rest assured that this is the conclusion. You cannot depend on one study to prove one thing. There are so many studies out there that prove/disprove a statement. So you have to see the whole picture, analyze it and extrapolate relevant info. That is what I have done when I say "Anastrozole has been used long term in males without complications." Personally I don't know anybody who have used it for 10 or 20 years continuously and since your request seems to be aimed towards that. I can just say that all information points toward that there should be no complications.

You should be concerned with a lot of the long term studies done on women as well although you state that "It has nothing to do with what I'm looking for" because it actually does and if you could try to look at the bigger spectrum of things you may be able to find your own conclusions.

From my knowledge on the drug the main concern would be to avoid dragging your e2 too low. That would be it, sometimes anastrozole has been pointed out to affect lipids negatively, however it may be misusing the drug which causes that.

If a drug has been used long term, which is defined medically as long term such as a year, you can draw many conclusions from that data. If you expect a certain value to change during the course of between a year and a decade I would understand that. But understand as well that the IRB will not consent to many studies progressing over 1 year for this matter neither which is why you see a lack in data. For example, I am concerned with my lipids over the course of a decade or estrone(e1) being too low.

An Endo I was sent to told me to immediately stop ADEX....
kept saying the long term effects are not known.
It's obvious he doesn't see it an issue if his patients grow tits.
When I first had an appointment with him, he asked if I had milk coming out my breasts ?
I would assume this is common problem for him cause he doesn't prescribe ADEX ?

 

[Alpin]

Hello Gossamer,

That is what I have done when I say "Anastrozole has been used long term in males without complications." Personally I don't know anybody who have used it for 10 or 20 years continuously and since your request seems to be aimed towards that. I can just say that all information points toward that there should be no complications.

I've used it off and on for the past 10 years.....
Mostly ON it.

 

[Gossamer]

Hello Gossamer,

Thanks for your response. What I am basing it on is a long list of studies which have been conducted on males/females and extrapolated that information to patients currently on TRT. Basically, if you read all information that is available, you should be rest assured that this is the conclusion. You cannot depend on one study to prove one thing. There are so many studies out there that prove/disprove a statement. So you have to see the whole picture, analyze it and extrapolate relevant info. That is what I have done when I say "Anastrozole has been used long term in males without complications." Personally I don't know anybody who have used it for 10 or 20 years continuously and since your request seems to be aimed towards that. I can just say that all information points toward that there should be no complications.

You should be concerned with a lot of the long term studies done on women as well although you state that "It has nothing to do with what I'm looking for" because it actually does and if you could try to look at the bigger spectrum of things you may be able to find your own conclusions.

From my knowledge on the drug the main concern would be to avoid dragging your e2 too low. That would be it, sometimes anastrozole has been pointed out to affect lipids negatively, however it may be misusing the drug which causes that.

If a drug has been used long term, which is defined medically as long term such as a year, you can draw many conclusions from that data. If you expect a certain value to change during the course of between a year and a decade I would understand that. For example, I am concerned with my lipids over the course of a decade or estrone(e1) being too low.

Thank you Daniel. That was a very informative answer. And it does help me to think that my relatively low dose, isn't going to cause much long term harm.

The reason why I didn't focus too much on studies of women taking anastrozole for breast cancer, is because my dose is about 1/14th of a typical dose that women take for breast cancer.

So,
While the info you've gathered doesn't answer my concern specifically, it does point towards a fairly safe long term usage as an AI in trt, when used to keep estrogen in a healthy range.

For now, it gives me a little more peace of mind while taking arimidex.

Thank you again for your help, and for all you do here, as well.

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

Hello Apollon,

Yes, it is to a degree however most data suggests there shouldn't be a complication in the long-term hence why it is prescribed so often in regards to TRT. New drugs come and go and many times it take a while to see negative side effects, however, anastrozole has been around over 20 years and such a negative shadow hasn't been cast upon it.

Thank you Daniel. That was a very informative answer. And it does help me to think that my relatively low dose, isn't going to cause much long term harm.

The reason why I didn't focus too much on studies of women taking anastrozole for breast cancer, is because my dose is about 1/14th of a typical dose that women take for breast cancer.

So,
While the info you've gathered doesn't answer my concern specifically, it does point towards a fairly safe long term usage as an AI in trt, when used to keep estrogen in a healthy range.

For now, it gives me a little more peace of mind while taking arimidex.

Thank you again for your help, and for all you do here, as well.

I am glad, thank you!

 

[anzel]

When I was taking adex my HDL & LDL looked kinda shitty, when I had stopped a few months the HDL & LDL looked a little better.

I understand there are many variables but just looking at the adex as the possible culprit what would it be, the adex itself causing LDL to go up & HDL to go down OR that the adex brought my E level down to the low normal range and the low e was the actual culprit.

Note my E level is now running a bit high now.

My prior dose of adex was .5 E3D but now I am going to do .25 E3D to keep my E from going as low as before.

 

[Alpin]

When I was taking adex my HDL & LDL looked kinda shitty, when I had stopped a few months the HDL & LDL looked a little better.

I understand there are many variables but just looking at the adex as the possible culprit what would it be, the adex itself causing LDL to go up & HDL to go down OR that the adex brought my E level down to the low normal range and the low e was the actual culprit.

Note my E level is now running a bit high now.

My prior dose of adex was .5 E3D but now I am going to do .25 E3D to keep my E from going as low as before.

I hate that dose. I'm gonna run 0.125 mg of it E3D...
found a way to break the 1/4 tabs down to half.
Used it for a couple weeks and felt my joints slightly drying up, slight anxiety too....
maybe I don't have much of a problem with E2...I've lowered my dose by 10 mg of T E3D.
I was at trough of 1268...lol
Using 60 mg T E3D and 500 i.u. HCG E3D....

 

[Daniel_IMT_Staff]

When I was taking adex my HDL & LDL looked kinda shitty, when I had stopped a few months the HDL & LDL looked a little better.

I understand there are many variables but just looking at the adex as the possible culprit what would it be, the adex itself causing LDL to go up & HDL to go down OR that the adex brought my E level down to the low normal range and the low e was the actual culprit.

Note my E level is now running a bit high now.

My prior dose of adex was .5 E3D but now I am going to do .25 E3D to keep my E from going as low as before.

Hello,

That could have been! That's why it's nice having baseline labs as well, even though it is general practice that 20 pg/ml is the "sweet spot" that doesn't always hold true! I would rather have a little higher e2 than too low! As long as you aren't experiencing high e2 side effects of course because that means it is way too high.

Thanks for the input!

Daniel

 

[IMT staff]

AI's at the dosages we take have little to no effect on lipids, transminase levels or bone mineral density. It is not the worry of the anastrozole directly, the worry is suppressing estradiol.

If your estradiol is too low it does 2 things:

#1 it has an effect on your BMD

#2 it can lower your SHBG too much

Other than that there is nothing to prove that it has any long term detrimental effects, moreover the long term detrimental effects of high estrogen are well known, most common breast and testicular cancer, yes in men.

Any drug you take will have some type of risk, the question is are your at more risk with or without it?

So obviously if your E levels are not getting too high, you don't need it. If they are, I will take my chances with anastrozole before I would take my chances with high estrogen.

This topic is not about the drug, it is about how your monitor your lab work and what you do to mitigate risk, this is the key to any long term successful TRT program.

But I do agree with Daniel on this one, I have done the research, and there is nothing at all that points to long term negative effects.

Did you know tylenol has a much bigger impact on your transminase levels than anastrozole does?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

AI's at the dosages we take have little to no effect on lipids, transminase levels or bone mineral density. It is not the worry of the anastrozole directly, the worry is suppressing estradiol.

If your estradiol is too low it does 2 things:

#1 it has an effect on your BMD

#2 it can lower your SHBG too much

Other than that there is nothing to prove that it has any long term detrimental effects, moreover the long term detrimental effects of high estrogen are well known, most common breast and testicular cancer, yes in men.

Any drug you take will have some type of risk, the question is are your at more risk with or without it?

So obviously if your E levels are not getting too high, you don't need it. If they are, I will take my chances with anastrozole before I would take my chances with high estrogen.

This topic is not about the drug, it is about how your monitor your lab work and what you do to mitigate risk, this is the key to any long term successful TRT program.

But I do agree with Daniel on this one, I have done the research, and there is nothing at all that points to long term negative effects.

Did you know tylenol has a much bigger impact on your transminase levels than anastrozole does?

Agreed, I would be more concerned about e2 being way too high or to low. IMO, it isn't the anastrozole directly, rather the effects on e2... Studies pointing out lowered bone density, messed up lipids IMO are a direct effect of dumped e2.

 

[anzel]

I hate that dose. I'm gonna run 0.125 mg of it E3D...
found a way to break the 1/4 tabs down to half.
Used it for a couple weeks and felt my joints slightly drying up, slight anxiety too....
maybe I don't have much of a problem with E2...I've lowered my dose by 10 mg of T E3D.
I was at trough of 1268...lol
Using 60 mg T E3D and 500 i.u. HCG E3D....

How do you split the pill even smaller Apollon?

 

[STAUNCHED427]

How do you split the pill even smaller Apollon?

I'm assuming using those window sticker removing razor blades, cut with that, then again and probably crushes the quarter and divides it. I would expect once AI's are recognised as part of a true TRT protocol not just technically prescribed as an off label drug to men on TRT, that they will come in doses like .5mg or .25mg not just the standard 1mg saving the need for pill cutting, especially useful when you are trying to do .25mg and under! I guess this is an advantage for liquid RC ancillaries, having the ability to easily be able to microdose them (letro comes to mind).

Most of us know this, but if anyone happens to be wondering why they do come in only 1mg it is because that is the standardised dose for their original marketed use of treating breast cancer...