Advice needed - Crashing after 4 days

M

Markj

New member
I'm using a low dosage of 87.5mg cypionate pw or 25mg EOD. And HCG 500 iu every 3.5 days.
Everything starts of great with improved mood and energy within 3 days, but after that the situation deteriorates. I'm assuming this is due to high E2, especially considering the night sweats that follow.

TT to begin aprox 450. Which is not low but all the classic low t symptoms are there including high blood sugar issues (but not diabetic).

Day #1 - 25mg - nothing much to report
Day #2 - nothing much, mood improved
Day #3 - 25mg - mood up, energy up - feeling amazing!
Day #4 - ok - not as good as day before, night sweats
Day #5 - 25mg - better again
Day #6 - Crash, night sweats, feeling worse (sad and depression much worse than pre TRT.

I have Arimidex on hand but was thinking I would not need it on such a low dosage.

I'm not overweight, 50 years, clean living etc. chronically low zinc levels despite supplementation.

How quickly can high E2 become a problem? Even on a low dose.

And on that dosage, and assuming hyper conversion to E2, would you start with 0.25 Arimidex e3.5 days (0.5mg pw) or EOD (0.875mg pw)?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Are you only 4 days into TRT?

If so, my guess is that your protocol has put your test levels below where you used to be Natty. You have probably made yourself Hypogonadal. I doubt you have high E2 on that protocol.
 
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Megatron28 said:
Are you only 4 days into TRT?

If so, my guess is that your protocol has put your test levels below where you used to be Natty. You have probably made yourself Hypogonadal. I doubt you have high E2 on that protocol.
Click to expand...

wouldnt the 25mg EOD round out to be 70-95mg max depending on how the week falls, for a weeks dose?

You have to figure 25 eod would be like 12.5mg ED, now minus the ester (30%) leaves you with 8.75mg of raw test, so you'd only get 61.25mg raw test per week which is way below what you need.

so yes what megatron said, you're probably going hypo compared to your natural TT. I would bump it to 20mg ED if you want to use that type of plan.

You felt great the first few days because your body wasn't completely shut down yet.
 
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No, it definitely raised my levels.

I went for a blood test on day 7 to check.

TT was 21.5nmol/L (620)with a free-t levels at the top end and lowish SHBG.

e2 was 106 pmol/L.

Night sweats I've read are due to high e2.
 
Listen you should of studied up. As soon as you introduced exogenous Test to your system you shut down your own. EVEN ON LOW DOSE> SO know your nay is fvcked up because it is no more. YOu are now running lower. Please get to know what you are doin by reading and educating yourself before assuming you have this figured out.

This low dose thing is BULLSHIT and wrong because you will shut down anyway. Back ti the drawing board for you. Get that test up to a min of 300mgs week. Or quit, but no matter you need to educate yourself before doing anything. Good luck...Read up

Because you have shut yourself down you system may have lowered you Estradiol making you sweat and have some sides. Not crashed but too low for your test level in which you are all over the map with your hormones. THus so is everything.

The sides for high and low Estrogen are close to the same.

LOOK :
Low Estrogen Side Effects:-
Osteoporosis (weakened bones) ; (long-term low levels)
- Poor sex drive
- Fatigue
- Lethargy
- Skin quality diminishes
- Depression
- Poor sense of wellbeing & poor quality of life

High Estrogen Side Effects:-
Gynecomastia
- Anxiety & panic attacks
- Depression
- Erectile dysfunction
- Water retention
- High blood pressure
- Loss of balance/instability/dizziness
- Respiratory related concerns
- Irritability
- Low libido
- Insomnia
- Prostate related issues
- Crying like a little girl and being emotional all the time
 
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Markj said:
No, it definitely raised my levels.

I went for a blood test on day 7 to check.

TT was 21.5nmol/L (620)with a free-t levels at the top end and lowish SHBG.

e2 was 106 pmol/L.

Night sweats I've read are due to high e2.
Click to expand...

How many days then are you into TRT?
 
gruntwerk said:
wouldnt the 25mg EOD round out to be 70-95mg max depending on how the week falls, for a weeks dose?

You have to figure 25 eod would be like 12.5mg ED, now minus the ester (30%) leaves you with 8.75mg of raw test, so you'd only get 61.25mg raw test per week which is way below what you need.

so yes what megatron said, you're probably going hypo compared to your natural TT. I would bump it to 20mg ED if you want to use that type of plan.

You felt great the first few days because your body wasn't completely shut down yet.
Click to expand...

25 * 3.5 = 87.5
 
so it did raise your TT... but you weren't super low to begin with, so is it really worth shutting your HPTA down for a 200 point increase? I mean, if it's something you feel then awesome but...

25mg EOD isn't 100mg a week, like mega corrected me on it's actually 87.5mg a week which when ester is removed breaks down to 8.75mg ED. 100mg is a common dose you're right, but you're not on 100mg, I started off with 100mg myself and it put me to 736, I'll be trying 120 with new doc.

You may benefit from doing 250iu of HCG 2x a week, it looks like you're saying that you are doing 1,000iu total of HCG per week... this might be driving your e2 up a bit. You deff need to run the AI though, as for dose someone else who knows more needs to chime in.

Just seems like you're wreaking a lot of havoc on your system for a mere 200 point increase on TT when you weren't even severely hypogonadal to begin with. Did you check your thyroid? Sometimes a hypo thyroid can mimic a lot of low T symptoms.

If you wanna do TRT you may as well up your dose and see if you feel better at a higher level and with your e2 corrected.
 
Megatron28 said:
You need to give TRT a chance to work. 7 days is not enough. I would recommend changing your protocol and trying again.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm considering retrying. However there is something I need to change. Previously I was on creams but it was a similar story. Feel better then worse, despite levels of 36 (or 1050). With e2 running at 146pmol/L Doc suggested injections would be better, even though I don't have an absorption issue.

So what would you suggest changing?
 
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Markj said:
Yes, I'm considering retrying. However there is something I need to change. Previously I was on creams but it was a similar story. Feel better then worse, despite levels of 36 (or 1050). With e2 running at 146pmol/L Doc suggested injections would be better, even though I don't have an absorption issue.

So what would you suggest changing?
Click to expand...

It's my understanding from general reading on here and in a few books that creams definitely provoke e2 levels differently than shots.

I think what mega is getting at is trying to get at is using a better protocol, the amount of T one needs is certainly different for everyone but 87.5mg is really low and you had much wiggle room to go up and see how you feel. You also didn't mention actually running the AI at all, so of course e2 levels that high are gonna make you feel like shit. 1,000iu of hCG is a lot, you could likely run 500 per week split up into 250iu on T shot days... this seems to be the usual dose, then one may go up as needed. The hCG can increase e2 as well, something to do with the testicles.

So maybe by jumping to 100mg per work, 500 iu hCG per week, and running the arimidex from the get-go at .25mg twice a week would result in feeling much better? I'm really not an expert at all here but even I see the flaws of your original protocol and only allowing 7 days.
 
24mg EOD might be plenty to bump his T levels up. Or not, but he won't know yet. Not everyone needs 200mg a week to survive. I inject 24mg EOD and levels hang around 800 all day every day. And.... I need an AI even at that dose and frequency. At the doses you all recommend and/or take, my TT can hit 1500.

We all aren't the same.

To the original poster. I'd give it more time for everything to settle. You will never know where you sit after only two week. Unless you start developing gyno, keep at it without an AI for atleast 4-6 weeks, then get bloodwork to see where testosterone and sensitive estradiol are at.
 
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Jimstigator said:
80mg total a week injected ED or EOD can yield the same TT levels as 100mg injected once or twice a week.
Click to expand...

I noticed that in the article you shared, I was just saying in general if he still felt like shit he had room to increase if needed.

I surely agree everyone is much different, I don't need a ton of T myself to make a good level. I wonder where my dose change of 120mg will put me. If I don't feel any improvement I'll back down too 100 again.

I would try again though OP, a lot of the new reading material shows its beneficial to our health, staying hypo can cause huge health risks like insulin resistance. My kidney function improved dramatically on TRT, my blood flow is much better (my feet would turn purplish prior to TRT), blood pressure improved, VAT is decreasing substantially, muscle mass is increasing steadily, rock hard erections all day = happy wife. I could go on and on about how much better I feel, not saying you will see the same improvements but you will feel better if you get dialed in and give it time.
 
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