Advice needed - Crashing after 4 days

[Megatron28]

Yes, I'm considering retrying. However there is something I need to change. Previously I was on creams but it was a similar story. Feel better then worse, despite levels of 36 (or 1050). With e2 running at 146pmol/L Doc suggested injections would be better, even though I don't have an absorption issue.

So what would you suggest changing?

Here is some info for you that you may find helpful.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

Sounds like your doc put you on 100mg/week so I would recommend keeping things simple and inject 50mg every 3.5 days. No AI. Run hCG at 250iu twice per week taken at the same time as your test injections.

Give this 6 weeks and then get blood work. Be patient and let it do its thing. Keep us posted on how you are feeling.

 

[Markj]

In my experience, 80mg total a week injected ED or EOD can yield the same TT levels as 100mg a week injected once or twice.

peaktestosterone.com/Increased_Testosterone_From_Frequent_Injections.aspx

I think this is the strategy the doc is trying with me as he thinks I'm a 'hyper-converter' of T to E2.

 

[Markj]

Here is some info for you that you may find helpful.

steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

Sounds like your doc put you on 100mg/week so I would recommend keeping things simple and inject 50mg every 3.5 days. No AI. Run hCG at 250iu twice per week taken at the same time as your test injections.

Give this 6 weeks and then get blood work. Be patient and let it do its thing. Keep us posted on how you are feeling.

Thanks, I'm headed off OS for a bit and will give shots another go with Arimidex when back.

For now it's just 20mg cream applied on scrotum per day, and that seems fine. This is down from 75mg per day. Creams are easier for travels. It's only been three days but I feel much more energized, better mood, more focus, more confidence. And yes I'm wary that this may be the honeymoon period.
Starting low, going slow...

 

[juced_porkchop]

You need to give TRT a chance to work. 7 days is not enough. I would recommend changing your protocol and trying again.

exactly. the test showed your natty test along with what your adding, in a couple months it would be moreso the test your adding since the natty will be gone or low due to shutdown.
you need to dedicate months to figuring out YOUR HRT protocal.
for me its 200mg ew MIN.

then you need to figure out your AI dosing (if needed)
a month is not enough time IMO

 

[halfwit]

This is after seven days about a month ago.
I discontinued due to feeling worse off.

TRT takes a month just to build up to stable levels in your blood stream. Set it and forget it - seriously. Check bloods five weeks out to verify if you're dialed in, and adjust as necessary.

You cease your own production as mentioned, which is why you felt worse. Injecting such small amounts EOD isn't necessary either due to how the ester works; it releases a small portion of the injection over time. E3.5D is really good for most, but even E7D is fine for most folks.

 

[gruntwerk]

TRT takes a month just to build up to stable levels in your blood stream. Set it and forget it - seriously. Check bloods five weeks out to verify if you're dialed in, and adjust as necessary.

You cease your own production as mentioned, which is why you felt worse. Injecting such small amounts EOD isn't necessary either due to how the ester works; it releases a small portion of the injection over time. E3.5D is really good for most, but even E7D is fine for most folks.

I forgot to mention to him that this happens.

If you remember I actually messaged you halfwit going into freak out mode because I didn't feel right hahaha. You told me to relax and forget about it and a few weeks later I was a new man.

I had all sorts of anxiety in the start, my heart rate spiked for a bit, and in all I started to feel worse. I talked to halfwit and mega about it and they both mentioned to hang in there because when you start TRT your metabolism starts to kick back in, the andrenals fire up and the thyroid can improve, this can make you feel a bit like system overload.

I forgot to share that whole expierence, but these guys aren't joking. I stuck to their advice and hung in there, would NEVER turn back now.

 

[Jimstigator]

I forgot to mention to him that this happens.

If you remember I actually messaged you halfwit going into freak out mode because I didn't feel right hahaha. You told me to relax and forget about it and a few weeks later I was a new man.

I had all sorts of anxiety in the start, my heart rate spiked for a bit, and in all I started to feel worse. I talked to halfwit and mega about it and they both mentioned to hang in there because when you start TRT your metabolism starts to kick back in, the andrenals fire up and the thyroid can improve, this can make you feel a bit like system overload.

I forgot to share that whole expierence, but these guys aren't joking. I stuck to their advice and hung in there, would NEVER turn back now.

Funny how it all works. The first few weeks you wonder what the fuck you just got yourself into... then it just clicks.

 

[Markj]

TRT takes a month just to build up to stable levels in your blood stream. Set it and forget it - seriously. Check bloods five weeks out to verify if you're dialed in, and adjust as necessary.

When you say it takes time to build up in the blood stream, are you referring to the build up of the ester deposit? Which can be addressed by a larger initial dose? Or are you saying that testosterone actually builds up in the blood itself, and that this takes time?

 

[Markj]

I forgot to mention to him that this happens.

If you remember I actually messaged you halfwit going into freak out mode because I didn't feel right hahaha. You told me to relax and forget about it and a few weeks later I was a new man.

I had all sorts of anxiety in the start, my heart rate spiked for a bit, and in all I started to feel worse. I talked to halfwit and mega about it and they both mentioned to hang in there because when you start TRT your metabolism starts to kick back in, the andrenals fire up and the thyroid can improve, this can make you feel a bit like system overload.

I forgot to share that whole expierence, but these guys aren't joking. I stuck to their advice and hung in there, would NEVER turn back now.

In terms of working, TRT works in just a few days. But the crash could be either E2 going up (hence the night sweats) or my own production backing off. I suspect it was the former as I once started with an initial 180mg dose followed by 60mg every 3.5 days. From memory the same thing happened. Feeling great after three days, then worse after five, with quite heavy night sweats. I reported this to the physician, and hence the revised reduced protocol.

 

[Megatron28]

When you say it takes time to build up in the blood stream, are you referring to the build up of the ester deposit? Which can be addressed by a larger initial dose? Or are you saying that testosterone actually builds up in the blood itself, and that this takes time?

We are talking about testosterone in the blood stream. Are you familiar with how the half life of medications work?

 

[gruntwerk]

In terms of working, TRT works in just a few days. But the crash could be either E2 going up (hence the night sweats) or my own production backing off. I suspect it was the former as I once started with an initial 180mg dose followed by 60mg every 3.5 days. From memory the same thing happened. Feeling great after three days, then worse after five, with quite heavy night sweats. I reported this to the physician, and hence the revised reduced protocol.

It doesn't work in just a few days, it starts to work in a few days. It takes 4-5 weeks to reach full saturation due to half life, the only way it starts working within a few days is that it starts to release the T that's above it.

 

[halfwit]

When you say it takes time to build up in the blood stream, are you referring to the build up of the ester deposit? Which can be addressed by a larger initial dose? Or are you saying that testosterone actually builds up in the blood itself, and that this takes time?

Any drug that has a time release via the employment of decaying bonds (half-life) will require roughly four half-lives to build to a steady state level. This means that after each shot, you see a small spike that falls off as previous injections fall off (metabolized). Once the rate of medicine declining is equal to the rate which it increases - you have reached full saturation.

Yes, a dose four times the desired dose does speed up saturation, but you face a far larger spike, which often creates side effects that are undesirable - like estradiol spikes. A spike in estradiol is what triggers many of the side effects listed for testosterone in fact.

 

[Markj]

We are talking about testosterone in the blood stream. Are you familiar with how the half life of medications work?

Not really - hence my question.

I understand there is a ester deposit which breaks down and releases testosterone into the bloodstream, and that this deposit needs time to build up, or alternatively there is a added initial dose.

Unless we are talking the same thing, I'm not aware of any build up within the blood per se however.

 

[Megatron28]

Not really - hence my question.

I understand there is a ester deposit which breaks down and releases testosterone into the bloodstream, and that this deposit needs time to build up, or alternatively there is a added initial dose.

Unless we are talking the same thing, I'm not aware of any build up within the blood per se however.

See Halfwit's explanation in post #32.

Basically, think about Tylenol. You take it for a headache. It takes a little time to kick in, right? And then after a few hours you have to take more because it is wearing off. That's because the half life is 1-4 hours. Let's just say it is four hours to keep things simple. If you take 500mg of Tylenol, you have 250mg in remaining in your body after 4 hours. 125mg after 8 hours. And so on until you have metabolized all of it out of your system. That is why you have to keep topping up. Testosterone works the same way. The ester slows down the release into your blood stream. Test Cyp has a half of life of probably around 5-7 days or so if memory serves.

Google Half Life Medications to learn more.

 

[Markj]

See Halfwit's explanation in post #32.

Basically, think about Tylenol. You take it for a headache. It takes a little time to kick in, right? And then after a few hours you have to take more because it is wearing off. That's because the half life is 1-4 hours. Let's just say it is four hours to keep things simple. If you take 500mg of Tylenol, you have 250mg in remaining in your body after 4 hours. 125mg after 8 hours. And so on until you have metabolized all of it out of your system. That is why you have to keep topping up. Testosterone works the same way. The ester slows down the release into your blood stream. Test Cyp has a half of life of probably around 5-7 days or so if memory serves.

Google Half Life Medications to learn more.

Yes, I get the half lives. I've a spreadsheet to track the total unesterfied T on any given day. For cypionate I use 7 days for SQ administration.

Thanks

 

[Megatron28]

Yes, I get the half lives. I've a spreadsheet to track the total unesterfied T on any given day. For cypionate I use 7 days for SQ administration.

Thanks

So then as you know, blood serum levels take time to level off at their saturation point.