Aggressive testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for maximum results

[Roush]

Aggressive TRT for maximum results

A suggested testosterone replacement therapy with an aggressive protocol. 'Aggressive' in regards to one of the goals to the program is to put on substantial lean muscle mass to counteract the muscle wasting that had occurred from previous health issues as well treat the very low testosterone levels. Suggested for a subject that is mid 30's and has a total testosterone level of 166 ng/dl and free testosterone of 7.26 ng/dl. . . besides the low testosterone subject had a previous health issues that caused weight loss and lean muscle loss over a period of several years. Subject height and weight were 5"11" and 147 lbs with 11% BF. After health issues were resolved subject was able to take on a weight training program and increase calories. Weight gained over time was 8 lbs without a substantial increase in body fat (11.7%). Testosterone levels at this time were checked and the 166 total (checked in the morning) indicated hypogonadism. Weight training and diet alone were not able to increase energy levels and lean muscle mass with testosterone levels so low.

Protocol - meds
Testosterone Propianate 150mg per week (50mg injections every 3rd day)
Testosterone Cypionate 200+ mg per week (200mg injection every 6th day)
Nandrolone Decanoate 100mg per week (1x injection per week)
HCG 1000iu per week (500iu 2x per week)
Anastrozole - .5mg every third day (dosage variable dependent on sides and regular blood labs)

Protocol - schedule macro
Test prop (weeks 1-5)
Test Cyp (6 month TRT then re-evaluate)
Deca ( Weeks 3-12)
HCG & Anastrozole part of the 6 month TRT and dose dependent during that time

Protocol - injection schedule micro (weeks 3-12 as eg.,)
Injection every third day
Monday - Test Cyp 200mg - Test Prop 50mg
Tues - off
Weds - off
Thurs - Test Prop 50mg - Deca 100mg
Fri - off
Sat - off
Sun - Test Cyp 200mg - Test Prop 50mg
off
off
Weds - Test Prop 50mg - Deca 100mg
continue..

Theory - Jump start the test levels with fast acting Test prop, but begin the test cyp as well to steadily bring levels up. Continue the test cyp through out the TRT. Add in the deca (small dosage) for some muscle hardening but mainly for joint/ligament/tendon benefits (slightly off setting the joint pain associated with the Anastrozole). HCG for 'communication/signal' to the testes and atrophy prevention.

Goal - Reverse previous muscle wasting - boost testosterone to above optimal levels - increase lean muscle mass while maintaining joint and ligament health and lubrication - Weight gain of 30+ lbs over the 6 month period (training and diet dependent).

Any thoughts, changes, negative/positive feedback, etc. is appreciated.

 

[DarthOrgoglius]

Is there a Dr. prescribing at least part of the patient's "aggressive" treatment? I would go to an endocrinologist first to get a baseline treatment for Low T. Then, after a month or two, add on your deca, etc. This just seems like way too much stuff, way too fast, especially considering that the patient is only recently recovering from the "previous health issues." What are these issues, btw?

 

[TarheelWill]

I think that is exactly what I would design for myself if my doc will let me give suggestions. I definitely fit the criteria. I'm going in the next week for my physical and blood work to validate my hypothesis that I have low T levels due to prior opiate abuse. I may not put the deca in there for me personally just bc I am not very prone to dry joints and what not. I love the idea of beginning with prop and cyp though.

 

[fame2002]

What possible benefit for "trt" would a doctor prescribe deca???

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I am curious to know where you came up with your protocol......please do tell

 

[Roush]

I am curious to know where you came up with your protocol......please do tell

Protocol came up in theory only. . . essentially taking various conversations, emails, discussions, etc. with local TRT docs and other TRT people around the country and integrating those various discussions into a single protocol. The different places I spoke with had various opinions on the subject matter (timing, front loading, doses, meds, etc.)-- The above protocol is a kind of fabrication of those various opinions.
So I posted on here to get even more feedback.

What possible benefit for "trt" would a doctor prescribe deca

The TRT benefit for the use of the deca is clearly listed in the protocol. It may be in theory only, but it is there. to clarify-- a patient who may be prone to dry and achy joints who takes up a weight training program and an aggressive TRT program, who also may need arimidex for sides, may VERY WELL have issues with his joints and ligaments (being weight training and arimidex can cause joint pain)... A trt doc in such a case would seem justified in prescribing a small dosage of Deca to help lubricate the joints. Don't you think?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

dude your TT level is near castrate, that protocol is a mess and just not necessary fro someone with your stats.

adding prop and cyp at the same time is just asking for side effects.

have you ever taken testosterone before?

I would be careful what TRT clinics you get info from, I can tell just from the wording where most of that came from.

 

[TarheelWill]

Oak, With that small a dose of the short ester, I don't see it causing much in the way of negative sides. It is primarily going to jump start the therapy since it takes a while for the cyp to kick in. I would only do the prop for the first 6 weeks or so for the boost.

 

[TarheelWill]

If it were me, that is

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

If it were me, that is

His test levels are 166 man, the cyp will kick in after the first shot, we are not talking about someone who has normal testosterone levels here.

On top of that, if he has never taken testosterone before it is a big deal, that is way too much if he has never taken anything.

even so, his dosing schedule is silly, prop needs to be taken QOD


on top of that, deca for muscle hardening?

even if he was ready for everything he has here, he has it set up all wrong.

its not like im giving advice on something I have never done...... I am very familiar with all those.

 

[TarheelWill]

Yeah I agree about the deca. But I would do the prop EOD or E3D.

 

[RedLang]

Id hate to control all of that, and on top pin that much for trt. Thats pretty messy and more looking like a cycle imo. Also how would you know what is causing what sides? They would need a more
methodical approach.

 

[RedLang]

Also i will add to that, trt is used to bring people to a functional hormone level thats normal for that individual. Imo that should be done with minimum medications as possible.

 

[TarheelWill]

Yes, it is sort of like a small booster cycle at the onset. I do agree with that, but it sounds like that's what he was going for. I.e. something a little above normal TRT. And yes, you would have to monitor it and drop the propionate if a problem occurred but at least it's a short ester and would be out very quickly.

 

[kaoz123]

oo​

Id hate to control all of that, and on top pin that much for trt. Thats pretty messy and more looking like a cycle imo. Also how would you know what is causing what sides? They would need a more
methodical approach.

This is more like a small cycle. But prop needs to be EOD. Deca for hardening? Never heard that it bloats me but is good for the joints.

 

[300winmag]

i dont see any reasonable doc agreeing to that, but thats just me.

 

[Roush]

Thanks for the responses. . . again, this was/is just a hypothetical protocol. It seems as if the general consensus is that this is TOO aggressive an approach for a TRT program (even though one of main goals addressed in the protocol was substantial weight gain and muscle mass, and not just 'TRT' or Test level increase and stability).
It also seems clear that the addition of the deca to this protocol, even though it be a very small dosage, is a bit controversial to most posters. Is this the 'over-the-top' aspect of the protocol that makes it too aggressive?
Questions:
* Started the protocol with the Test prop and the Test cyp: Is it necessary to pin the Prop EOD (though this is what most bodybuilders do) in this approach instead of every 3rd? Maybe not as ideal as EOD, but definitely reasonable considering the pragmatic aspects of such a protocol and that the half life of the Prop is at 4 days.
Note: the pragmatic aspect being that your going to pin one day with Cyp, so you add in the prop on that day with that injection...your going to pin again with Cyp 6 days latter, so you add in the prop with that injection. And if we just add a single prop injection to that (in the middle) that gives us the every 3rd day protocol. Definitely more convenient.
* Is stopping the Prop after about week 6 or 7 a good stopping point (leaving the 200mg a week of the Test cyp going)?
* Are the dosages significant enough to not only raise the total T levels of the subject, but bring about an optimal anabolic state to the body and enough nitrogen to the muscles to add on steady muscle mass?

Note on "deca muscle hardening" - was told that deca promotes bloat and water retention on those prone to it, but on high metabolism ecto-morph framed individuals the substance has not only a muscle mass but a definition and 'solid' muscle building effect/appearance. Not that this is really relevant being the deca dose in the original theoretical protocol was so small that only the joint benefits would probably be realized.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

Half life of prop is 2-3 days not 4.

I don't know who is giving you the advice on the deca, but it seems as if someone is selling you.

 

[EnhancedAthlete]

That's not TRT protocol, that's a steroid cycle. Your hypothetical scenario is a bunch of crap. There is no need for Prop & Cyp at the same time. What's the deca at 100mg for?

 

[300winmag]

Thanks for the responses. . . again, this was/is just a hypothetical protocol. It seems as if the general consensus is that this is TOO aggressive an approach for a TRT program (even though one of main goals addressed in the protocol was substantial weight gain and muscle mass, and not just 'TRT' or Test level increase and stability).
It also seems clear that the addition of the deca to this protocol, even though it be a very small dosage, is a bit controversial to most posters. Is this the 'over-the-top' aspect of the protocol that makes it too aggressive?
Questions:
* Started the protocol with the Test prop and the Test cyp: Is it necessary to pin the Prop EOD (though this is what most bodybuilders do) in this approach instead of every 3rd? Maybe not as ideal as EOD, but definitely reasonable considering the pragmatic aspects of such a protocol and that the half life of the Prop is at 4 days.
Note: the pragmatic aspect being that your going to pin one day with Cyp, so you add in the prop on that day with that injection...your going to pin again with Cyp 6 days latter, so you add in the prop with that injection. And if we just add a single prop injection to that (in the middle) that gives us the every 3rd day protocol. Definitely more convenient.
* Is stopping the Prop after about week 6 or 7 a good stopping point (leaving the 200mg a week of the Test cyp going)?
* Are the dosages significant enough to not only raise the total T levels of the subject, but bring about an optimal anabolic state to the body and enough nitrogen to the muscles to add on steady muscle mass?

Note on "deca muscle hardening" - was told that deca promotes bloat and water retention on those prone to it, but on high metabolism ecto-morph framed individuals the substance has not only a muscle mass but a definition and 'solid' muscle building effect/appearance. Not that this is really relevant being the deca dose in the original theoretical protocol was so small that only the joint benefits would probably be realized.

If your starting on TRT and truely doing it why dont you start at the bottom and see how it goes? If you dont you will never understand where your at and might be taking things you dont have to which is costly and could be harmful. Some guys do less than 100mg of test a week and respond greatly have high T numbers and build muscle, some take 200mg. Your asking for your back and arms to be zitted up like a pepperoni pizza and youll get tits like a women and have peanuts for balls. Somebody is selling you here or your pipe dreaming either way.

Start with the basic protocol and work your way up.