Aggressive testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for maximum results

[THE-DET-OAK]

Start with the basic protocol and work your way up.

yes, if you don't get dialed in and something goes haywire, you will not have anything to fall back on.

 

[Roush]

That's not testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol, that's a steroid cycle

It's funny, post a similar dosage and gear on a bodybuilding and enhancement forum (as a cycle) and I'd be told "That's not a real cycle. . . doses are too low, sounds more like a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dosage"
Again, looking at only 200mg of test cyp a week (not a steriod cycle dosage)
Simply front loading the therapy with the Prop at only 150mg a week to get started (at a mere 50mg every 3rd day. . . steriod cycle range?? really)

There is no need for Prop & Cyp at the same time.

Define "Need". . .
A doctor can tell a guy with a total Test level of 250, "there is no need for additional testosterone. . 250 is baseline ok". Depending on the definition of need, he very well may be right. But the guy can tell the doc "Fk that doc, I don't want to be baseline I want to be optimal. . . I may not NEED to be optimal, yea I'm not gonna kill over tomorrow because I'm not optimal, but I sure is hell think I should be if I can"
So yea, your right...no need for test cyp and prop together. BUT if it helps to start a program out that way with the faster acting prop and the longer acting cyp, why the hell not.
I've heard arguments for using both together and I've heard the 'no need'. . . explain why they should not be ran together at the start.

Start with the basic protocol and work your way up.

Good advice... If we call your "basic" a standard testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) protocol, and we call your "work your way up" an aggressive protocol.. What would each of those look like?
The basic is easy-- 150-200mg test cyp every week.. but what do you work your way up to?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I can see where this conversation is going, and I don't understand why your here asking for advice if you already know everything.

What your proposing, with your stats and experience is stupid, so good luck with that.

With your T levels as low as they are, you don't need all that crap to make gains.

 

[Roush]

I don't understand why your here asking for advice if you already know everything.

??
Obviously I'm not even close nor have I attempted to come across that way.. hence the questions being asked for explanations in most my posts (one who 'knows everything' wouldn't be constantly asking questions). I suppose I could respond with a simple "OH, Ok" on every post, but that wouldn't be much of a conversation would it.

With your T levels as low as they are, you don't need all that crap to make gains.

That makes a lot of sense, if I'm understanding the reason why correctly. . . is it simply because say someone with a starting T level so low has drastic room for improvement (going from say 160 to 900, compared to someone else going from 450 to 900)??
Can you break that down a bit for me
Thanks

 

[couch]

I'm going to repeat what others have said. This is a cycle, not testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is "forever." If you want to cycle, think of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) as something you base the "cycle" on. So maybe you hit 250mg a week of Sustanon (sust) as your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and you bump up to 500-750 when you "cycle." And this is poorly designed.

Your levels are low. Why not ask a doctor for TRT/HRT and start off with a proper Rx and consider cycling when you know a little more?

Oh, lastly, consider fish oil for your joints. Why do you think you need deca for it?

edit: wait, what the fuck? you're taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)? hcg is for when you come off cycle. If you're on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), your balls are done. If you want to restart your HPTA, do that. This is a fucking nightmare.

 

[fame2002]

I'm going to repeat what others have said. This is a cycle, not testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is "forever." If you want to cycle, think of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) as something you base the "cycle" on. So maybe you hit 250mg a week of Sustanon (sust) as your testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and you bump up to 500-750 when you "cycle." And this is poorly designed.

Your levels are low. Why not ask a doctor for TRT/HRT and start off with a proper Rx and consider cycling when you know a little more?

Oh, lastly, consider fish oil for your joints. Why do you think you need deca for it?

edit: wait, what the fuck? you're taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)? hcg is for when you come off cycle. If you're on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), your balls are done. If you want to restart your HPTA, do that. This is a fucking nightmare.

There's nothing wrong with doing hcg while on, at all.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

That makes a lot of sense, if I'm understanding the reason why correctly. . . is it simply because say someone with a starting T level so low has drastic room for improvement (going from say 160 to 900, compared to someone else going from 450 to 900)??
Can you break that down a bit for me
Thanks

it really is that simple, if your T levels are 166 getting your TT up to 1,000 and you will make gains for months to come, when you know more and plateau, then maybe consider getting more aggressive for certain periods.

At 200 mg a week its not like your T levels are going to hoover around 1,000 they are going to shoot up to 2,000 and fall to 1,000 before your next shot, and honestly they may not even fall that low.

You are also rushing into things with the prop, since your T levels are so low, waiting 6 weeks for it to "kick in" does not apply to you. You will literally feel an increase in libido within days after your first shot.

now if someone had natural levels of 6-700, it would most likely take them a little more.

So now maybe you can see why you are almost at an advantage, hell with your TT levels you could probably put on 8 lbs with testim gel.

what you are considering is just plain silly due to your current circumstances, if I were you I would get with someone who actually cares about your well being.

I work with guys everyday that have low t levels, and putting someone with your T levels on as much testosterone as your proposing is silly, and most likely you will not enjoy.

 

[slipperyslope]

Needed a good laugh today, this thread did it.

5'11" 147 lbs? You need to get your total t and e2 in range, eat good, clean food, and hit the gym 5 times a week. Get a solid base and then you can think about getting 'aggressive'.

 

[couch]

There's nothing wrong with doing hcg while on, at all.

Of course not. With testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), you don't come off. That's the whole point.

 

[Roush]

Needed a good laugh today, this thread did it.

5'11" 147 lbs? You need to get your total t and e2 in range, eat good, clean food, and hit the gym 5 times a week. Get a solid base and then you can think about getting 'aggressive'.

If you read the original post more thoroughly you would have understood that the 5'11" 147 lbs was after coming out of a health issue (several months ago). . . that the subject then DID take on a diet and training program once the issue was resolved and gained lean muscle mass without increasing body fat. About 8 lbs at the time. IT WAS then that the subject had his testosterone levels checked and found to be low (again, after the 8 lbs of gain, not before).
It was then mentioned essentially that DIET AND EXERCISE WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH with the testosterone levels being so low. Imagine trying to train and make significant gains with a testosterone level of 166.
Though the muscle gain of 8 lbs was surely not bad for someone in that condition, imo.

Note: Subjects current stats are 5'11" 171 lbs.. fat percentage has increased slightly with the additional weight gain due to subject training for mass (not just overall fitness) and taking in excess calories. Test C was started and has aided in the jump in weight.

DET-OAK
What your saying makes total sense. Especially knowing this, to some degree, from real life experience.
Putting the 'hypothetical' subject/person aside. I myself have gained 23 lbs in 3 months.. attempting to get my diet, training, and supplementation in line AND the Test Cyp must surely of played a part... though it was only just recently added (has only been 5 weeks)

 

[300winmag]

If you read the original post more thoroughly you would have understood that the 5'11" 147 lbs was after coming out of a health issue (several months ago). . . that the subject then DID take on a diet and training program once the issue was resolved and gained lean muscle mass without increasing body fat. About 8 lbs at the time. IT WAS then that the subject had his testosterone levels checked and found to be low (again, after the 8 lbs of gain, not before).
It was then mentioned essentially that DIET AND EXERCISE WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH with the testosterone levels being so low. Imagine trying to train and make significant gains with a testosterone level of 166.
Though the muscle gain of 8 lbs was surely not bad for someone in that condition, imo.

Note: Subjects current stats are 5'11" 171 lbs.. fat percentage has increased slightly with the additional weight gain due to subject training for mass (not just overall fitness) and taking in excess calories. Test C was started and has aided in the jump in weight.

DET-OAK
What your saying makes total sense.

what your doing is asking for another health problem. I dont think any legit doctor or clinic would be dumb enough to agree with any of this specially at the onset.