Antidepressant Effects and Steroids

.Vision.

Euro-Pharmacies


Antidepressant Effects and Steroids

Introduction

Today’s world can be painstakingly stressful,People are in a rush to compete or get somewhere,with a self appointed deadline.. With this being said ,many people are turning to medication, as large phrama tends to peddle medication and dispense it down our throats (It seems that everyone now suffers from some sort of mental aliment)..There was a study performed in 2005 as it showed that 27 million Americans were taking antidepressants (This is just America alone), almost double by 2010, and steadily increased up until 2015 this represents roughly 25% of the population at this time, and this number has certainly expected to rise as studies show antidepressant usage has been on a continual increase. Unfortunately enough its been proven that usage continues to rise significantly among young/adult men.

Let’s begin the discussion and what this article pertains to,and about is users taking antidepressants and how they affect anabolic steroid, post cycle therapy, testosterone levels and in general building muscle.
This discussion has taken place on are numerous internet panels, thousands of questions/concerns regarding antidepressant usage and anabolic steroid cycles..
To keep on point and avoid going off topic on the details about how these antidepressants effect depression and anxiety,we will merely only discuss how they affect bodybuilding and steroid usage.
_____________________________
SSRI (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor)
Below are the five of the most common and popular SSRI products.


Lexapro
Celexa
Paxil
Zoloft
Prozac

SNRI (Serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor)
Below are the three of the most common and popular SNRI products.


Effexor
Cymbalta
Pristiq

Testosterone Levels
Competitive athletes,sport fitness buffs,serious lifters, and bodybuilder know the importance of testosterone and it’s pivotal role is to the male body/Endocrine system..
In recent times there have been some numerous studies studies that supporting that SSRI’s in particular can cause reduced testosterone levels,as well as effect female hormonal levels.. Below is a study supporting these notions!

Antidepressant-Induced Sexual Dysfunction Associated with Low Serum Free
TestosteroneAlan Jay Cohen, M.D.
Private Practice and Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, UCSF

SUMMARY
In the course of an evaluation for treatment of antidepressant-induced
sexual dysfunction (ASD) with a new agent, an unforeseen pattern emerged
in the pre-treatment laboratory assessment. Free serum testosterone
levels in both men and women study subjects were found to be below the
normal ranges in 75 percent of subjects in this small study. There were
no other consistent laboratory findings that could account for such a
high percentage correlation.
Further inquiries into the possible causes for decreased serum
testosterone and its association with ASD seems warranted.

INTRODUCTION
Antidepressant-induced sexual dysfunction (ASD) is a well recognized
complication of treatment for mood and anxiety disorders, (Gitlin 1997).
Recent discoveries have helped to provide effective remedies for this
significant obstacle to patient compliance and successful treatment
outcome(Cohen 1997, Gitlin 1997, Bartlik 1995). However, no remedy is
100% effective. In addition, there is no fully satisfactory theory that
explains the physiologic mechanisms responsible for the varied aspects
of sexual dysfunction observed. In the course of an
evaluation of treatment for ASD in a community office-based research
setting, a striking pattern emerged in the laboratory screening
protocol. Free testosterone levels were found to be subnormal in 15 of
20 patients. No other consistent laboratory value nor physical
examination finding could account for this observation. Causes for
reduced free testosterone and its effect on sexual function are
discussed with implications for future research and treatment
strategies.

METHODS AND AIMS
Twenty subjects, ages 35 to 74 years, were evaluated for a double blind
placebo controlled trial of a dietary supplement combination for the
treatment of ASD. All of the subjects were using medication for the
treatment of mood disorder (DSM IV Criteria) included SSRI’s, SNRI’s,
bupropion, trazodone and mirtazipine. Screening physical exams and
laboratory studies included CBC, TSH, Prolactin, serum free
Testosterone, Serum Chemistries, and Urinalysis were done. The Arizona
Sexual Effects Change Scale (ASECS) was used as part of the clinical
assessment of ASD. In the course of the evaluation process, low serum
free testosterone was noted in 15 patients.

RESULTS
Twelve men and eight women were evaluated. Eight men had subnormal free
testosterone levels, two additional men had borderline low levels. Six
women had subnormal levels of free testosterone. The average age of male
subjects was 50.5 years. The male ASECS mean score was 20 with a mean
free Testosterone of 13.5 pg/ml. The laboratory range of free
Testosterone was 16 – 33 pg/ml. The average age of female subjects was
39.6 years; female ASECS score was 20, and the mean free Testosterone
level was 0.8 pg/ml. (normal range 0.8 – 3.0 pg/ml). (Laboratory ranges
were modified according to standardized norms for age; average free
testosterone levels decline slightly with increasing age.) Table #1
summarizes the data on all of the subjects in the study.
Prolactin levels were above normal in only two subjects (one male, one
female), both of whom were also found to have below normal levels of
free testosterone.
All of the other subjects had normal Prolactin levels. Thyroid
stimulating hormone was found to be normal in all subjects.
Table 1.


Sex Age Medication ASECS score free T (pg./ml.)
M 35 venlafaxine 16 23.4
M 36 sertraline 21 5.2 *
M 43 paroxetine 18 13.5 *
M 45 venlafaxine 17 16.3 #
M 46 venlafaxine 20 13.2 *
M 46 paroxetine/mirtazepine 20 13.4 *
M 47 citalopram 19 29.0
M 47 fluoxetine 22 17.6 #
M 50 sertraline 17 6.2 *
M 53 nefazodone 25 11.1 *
M 54 bupropion 21 7.4*
M 74 venlafaxine 24 5.6 *
F 20 citalopram 29 1.7
F 31 venlafaxine 21 0.50*
F 37 paroxetine 23 0.70 *
F 41 paroxetine 19 1.5
F 44 sertraline 16 0.40 *
F 45 bupropion/trazodone 16 0.50 *
F 47 fluoxetine 20 0.50*
F 52 bupropion 16 0.40

(*denotes subnormal fT levels, # denotes borderline low free T levels)
ASECS score range is 5-30 , 5 is maximal sexual function, 30 is minimal score.

DISCUSSION
This report is the first known documentation of reduced free
testosterone levels associated with ASD. Prior reports have mentioned
SSRI-induced prolactin elevations but none have described effects on
testosterone levels(Amsterdam 1997).

Certainly, drugs can play a role in decreasing testosterone levels.
Ketoconazole, megestrol, cimetidine, and spironolactone have all been
reported to lower testosterone levels(De Coster 1985, Griffin and Wilson
1998). Methadone and other opiates can suppress testosterone by reducing
LH levels centrally(Griffin and Wilson 1998) Anticonvulsants have been
associated with reduced free testosterone although epilepsy itself is also known to exhibit this effect (Herzog, 1992). Carbamazepine may increase ********* cleaarance of testosterone and reduce LH levels. The P-450 CYP3A3/4 system is involved in the metabolism of testosterone (Griffin and Wilson, 1998). It is possible that antidepressants may be inducing the CYP3A3/4 isoenzyme with resultant enhanced ********* clearance of testosterone and reduction in free hormone levels.
Changes
in sex hormone binding globulin levels can influence the quantity of
circulating free testosterone (Griffin and Wilson
1998). Certain medical conditions; cirrhosis, renal failure, HIV infection etc. have been associated with lower levels of testosterone (Griffin and Wilson, 1998). Even being a sports enthusiast may adversely effect testosterone levels (if the fan is on the losing side) (Bernhardt 1998).
Studies investigating testosterone levels and mood disorders have shown
conflicting results (Seidman1998, Levitt, 1998). Levels of testosterone in 12 depressed males were
compared to age-matched normal controls by Levitt and Joffe in 1988.
No significant differences were noted between the two
groups. Clearly, more research is needed to elucidate what role, if any, testosterone plays in the evaluation and treatment of antidepressant-induced sexual dysfunction. Further studies should take into account diurnal variations in hormone level, total and free levels of hormone as well as pre-and post-antidepressant levels. This report isn hindered by the limitations of a small number of subjects, lack of a control group, and no information on the testosterone level of subjects prior to the onset fo antidepressant use. Further studies should also include measurement of total testosterone levels as well as concomitant SHBG levels.

CONCLUSION
This is the first description of an association between low testosterone levels and antidepressant-induced sexual dysfunction known to this author. Further research is needed to evaluate this relationship in greater detail. It does open avenues of exploration regarding treatment of ASD utilizing hormone replacement.
REFERENCES
1.) Amsterdam J. et al (1997) Breast enlargement during chronic
antidepressant therapy J Affective Disorders Nov.;46(2):151-156.
2.) Bartlik B et al (1995) Psychostimulants apparently reverse sexual
dysfunction secondary to selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. J Sex
Marital Ther. 21, (4):264-271.
3.) Bernhardt PC et al (1998) Testosterone changes during vicarious
experiences of winning and losing among fans at sporting events. Physiol.
Behav Aug.;65(1):59-62.
4.) Cohen AJ and Bartlik B (1998) Ginkgo biloba for
antidepressant-induced
sexual dysfunction J Sex Marital Ther Apr-Jun 24:2 139-143.
5.) De Coster R et al (1985) Effect of a single administration of
ketoconazole on total and physiologically free plasma testosterone and 17
beta-oestradiol levels in healthy male volunteers. Eur J Clin Pharmacol
29(4):489-493.
6.) Gitlin M. (1997) Sexual side effects of psychotropic medications, in
Psychiatric Clinics of North America:Annual of Drug Therapy, pg.61-90.
7.) Griffin J and Wilson J (1998) Disorders of the testes and the male
reproductive
tract in :Williams Textbook of Endocrinology 9th ed. W.B. Saunders Co.
pgs.845-861.
_8.) Herzog AG (1995) Hormonal changes in epilepsy Epilepsia
Apr;36(4):323-326.
9.) Levitt A and Joffe R (1988) Total and free testosterone in depressed
men Acta Psychiatr Scand Mar;77(3)346-348.
10.) Sternbach H (1998) Age-associated testosterone decline in men:clinical
issues for psychiatry Am J Psychiatry Oct, 155:10,1310-1318.
11.) Seidman S and Rabkin J (1998) Testosterone replacement therapy for
hypogonadal men with SSRI-refractory depression. J Affect. Disord
Mar;48(2-3):157-161.
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Now at this point is obvious that it should be generalized that an SSRI/SNRI’s can potentially affect Free Test levels/Test!
Post Cycle Therapy
Here is where the facts get interesting..Now if your well rounded/seasoned or even done your research you should be you’re a smart to know/use and understand about running PCT’s, Anti’s and other agents for recovery and assistance..
So by now I sure hope that your all to familiar with Nolvadex? That’s correct – (Tamoxifen Citrate).
Nolvadex (Tamox) uses an enzyme ‘CYP2D6***8242; to convert itself into a more useful form that our bodies can use. Unfortunately many antidepressants also use this same CYP2D6 enzyme, thus you have two medications competing for the same pathway.
The problem? Antidepressants have priority on the CYP2D6 enzyme therefore can render Nolvadex to be nearly useless, which could cause serious side effects during our PCT such as Gynecomastia. If you’re on an antidepressant and intend on using Nolvadex as your PCT, it’s important for you to know which antidepressants will cause issue and if you’re on an antidepressant that will inhibit Nolvadex from being functional, it’s recommend going with Clomid or Fareston (Toremifene Citrate)instead for your PCT. Below is a list provided by BreastCancer.org showing which SSRI & SNRI are strong to moderate inhibitors and those that are not.

STRONG INHIBITORS
Generic Names Brand Names
Bupropion Wellbutrin
Fluoxetine Prozac
Paroxetine Paxil
Quinidine Cardioquin
MODERATE INHIBITORS
Generic Names Brand Names
Duloxetine Cymbalta
Sertraline Zoloft
Diphenhydramine Benadryl
Thioridazine Mellaril
Amiodarone Cordarone
Trazodone Desyrel
Cimetidine Tagamet
SSRIS AND SNRIS THAT ARE NOT INHIBITORS
Generic Names Brand Names
Venlavaxine Effexor
Citalopram Celexa
Escitalopram Lexapro


Here is some more research on another very popular (repetitively newer) SNRI namedPristiq (Desvenlafaxine) it’s independent of CYP2D6 enzyme therefore shouldn’t negatively interact with Nolvadex.

Weight Gain
One of the largest issues in particular with some SSRI’s is unwelcome weight gain, while some bodybuilders would welcome some additional help putting on weight, the majority of this weight comes in the form of fat particularly in the stomach, chest and back areas. The evidence is conclusive that the majority of SSRI’s can and will cause some form of weight gain, studies have shown that SSRI’s can/will reduce a users metabolism to some degree, however as to why SSRI’s slow down a bodies metabolism remains unknown. Even an active healthy adult that eats a balanced diet can experience weight gain. In some cases weight gain in upwards of 30+ lbs is experienced on longer term SSRI usage. SNRI’s on the other hand have a much less likely chance of causing unwelcomed weight gain, in the event SNRI’s cause weight gain it’s typically significantly less than with an SSRI.Prolactin Levels
There is significant medical information that ‘some’ SSRI’s handily increase prolactin levels, prolactin is certainly something users want to keep under control especially on cycle as high prolactin levels can cause an on set of Gyno-puffyness/swelling of breast tissue, lactating breasts is not welcomed by any male! (Get bloods checked,getting a full blood panel pre-cycle/mid/post is crucial)
Below is a study supporting this-
Changes in plasma prolactin during SSRI treatment: evidence for a delayed increase in 5-HT neurotransmission.
Cowen PJ1, Sargent PA.
Author information

Abstract
We studied the effect of the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI), paroxetine, on basal plasma prolactin concentrations in 11 healthy subjects. Subjects were tested before paroxetine, and after 1 and 3 weeks of treatment (20 mg daily). On each test occasion prolactin levels were sampled before and following administration of a placebo capsule, for a total of 4 h. After 3 weeks paroxetine treatment plasma prolactin levels were significantly higher than those seen either pre-treatment or after 1 week of treatment. In contrast, 1 week of paroxetine treatment did not significantly increase prolactin concentrations over pre-treatment values. Plasma concentrations of paroxetine did not differ between 1 and 3 weeks of treatment. The secretion of plasma prolactin is, in part, under the tonic regulation of serotonergic pathways and the present results therefore support animal experimental data suggesting that SSRIs produce a delayed increase in some aspects of brain serotonin neurotransmission.
________________________
Conclusion
In this discussion, we should have learned what compounds may have an interaction,and what compounds to have concerns with..
Getting bloods and consulting with your physician,keeping an open honest trust policy will go a long way,and it could avoid any unwated side effect..
If you suffer from anxiety or depression,you should know the risk with using AAS..
(Some of these articles have been shared/modified for easier understanding, and research has been add or removed to further support the topic at hand,more information will be added)
Kind regards,
Vision​
 
If you are taking antidepressants - the first thing I would look at is the three main class of inhibitors or non inhibitors.

Strong Inhibitors
Generic Names / Brand Names

Bupropion --------- Wellbutrin
Fluoxetine --------- Prozac
Paroxetine --------- Paxil
Quinidine ---------- Cardioquin

Moderate Inhibitors
Generic Names / Brand Names

Duloxetine --------- Cymbalta
Sertraline ---------- Zoloft
Diphenhydramine - Benadryl
Thioridazine ------- Mellaril
Amiodarone ------- Cordarone
Trazodone --------- Desyrel
Cimetidine -------- Tagamet

SSRIs and SNRIs That Are Not Inhibitors
Generic Names / Brand Names

Venlavaxine -------- Effexor
Citalopram --------- Celexa
Escitalopram ------- Lexapro

It's the PCT that is usually the concern

Many antidepressants use the same enzyme (CYP2D6) as Nolvadex... so you have two medications
competing for the same pathway.

Antidepressants have priority on the CYP2D6 enzyme therefore making your Nolvadex to be nearly
useless... the non inhibitors are the ones that should not have an effect on this... if you're using any of the
inhibitors, then Clomid would be your choice...

I do recommend researching "each" specific antidepressant before making any decision.

Great topic Vision! :spin:
 
Awesome Vision...
Repo...dam it son..ur not just a pretty face. That was very well done as well.

I ve done all the SSRI s. Pschatrists ( not all ) are throwing darts at a depressed person hoping to come as close to the bullseye as possible. As like AAS were all different and if the HPTA a hard target to keep in check the brain s 10x harder. And while searching for the right med the patient has to wait as most SSRI s need 2-4 weeks to kick in, at least with me. Most depressed people I ve encountered in my head doc s waiting room do little to no exercise furthering the depths of misery.

I ll take TRT over an anti D ANYDAY. But as a pre cautin take 10 mg Lexapro daily, 20 in the holiday season. I ve been "DOWN IN A HOLE". IT S HORIIBLE. IT S SCAREY. I SCARE MYSELF.

When stuff s chugging along well in my training the rest of my life falls in lockstep. There has always been a direct symbiotic relationship with my training either quality or regularity and being productive outside the gym.

Exercising is integral for mental health. Reading here, reading anything new and challenging my brain promotes a desire to train my body. These 2 should be more liberally prescribed than rx meds. But there s no profit in telling someone to MOVE. Just do it--anything s better than dwelling. The Pharm Co s are literally in hog heaven as our obesity stat s rise. I do not know to many very out of shape people who are a joy to be around. They ache and complain and usually develop diab. heart...more rx is not the answer.
 
Good read Vision. Given that I'm considering getting on a antidepressant, short term , to help as I'm about to start my clinical detox from suboxone:-( Looking forward to getting back to "normal", whatever in the fuck that means!! Lol
 
If you are taking antidepressants - the first thing I would look at is the three main class of inhibitors or non inhibitors.

Strong Inhibitors
Generic Names / Brand Names

Bupropion --------- Wellbutrin
Fluoxetine --------- Prozac
Paroxetine --------- Paxil
Quinidine ---------- Cardioquin

Moderate Inhibitors
Generic Names / Brand Names

Duloxetine --------- Cymbalta
Sertraline ---------- Zoloft
Diphenhydramine - Benadryl
Thioridazine ------- Mellaril
Amiodarone ------- Cordarone
Trazodone --------- Desyrel
Cimetidine -------- Tagamet

SSRIs and SNRIs That Are Not Inhibitors
Generic Names / Brand Names

Venlavaxine -------- Effexor
Citalopram --------- Celexa
Escitalopram ------- Lexapro

It's the PCT that is usually the concern

Many antidepressants use the same enzyme (CYP2D6) as Nolvadex... so you have two medications
competing for the same pathway.

Antidepressants have priority on the CYP2D6 enzyme therefore making your Nolvadex to be nearly
useless... the non inhibitors are the ones that should not have an effect on this... if you're using any of the
inhibitors, then Clomid would be your choice...

I do recommend researching "each" specific antidepressant before making any decision.

Great topic Vision! :spin:

You nailed it man, people should always research, like you states with EACH anti, as each one may have a different pathway, and they may share the same pathway as one or more compounds that someone may be taking, either being counterproductive, or canceling one an other out, or worst possessing adverse effects...

I had a friend in Sicily that developed major gyno, from years and years of tamox usages with antiD's..Its no joke, its real!
 
Good read Vision. Given that I'm considering getting on a antidepressant, short term , to help as I'm about to start my clinical detox from suboxone:-( Looking forward to getting back to "normal", whatever in the fuck that means!! Lol

Soldier,
Good move. Due to a very injurious career I was hooked on opiates. And benzo s. And was a nightmare. Lost WEEKS. Benzo opiatic induced amnesia. Waking up in weird places with weird women I d not remember meeting. Or in my Bronco in the woods or in my driveway idling out of gas with fast food wrappers all over....w t h ?.

Read up on Kratom--cut ur de tox time in half.
 
Last edited:
Soldier, have you considered taking the pellets for suboxone they have a new clinical trial coming out for people
 
Awesome Vision...
Repo...dam it son..ur not just a pretty face. That was very well done as well.

I ve done all the SSRI s. Pschatrists ( not all ) are throwing darts at a depressed person hoping to come as close to the bullseye as possible. As like AAS were all different and if the HPTA a hard target to keep in check the brain s 10x harder. And while searching for the right med the patient has to wait as most SSRI s need 2-4 weeks to kick in, at least with me. Most depressed people I ve encountered in my head doc s waiting room do little to no exercise furthering the depths of misery.

I ll take TRT over an anti D ANYDAY. But as a pre cautin take 10 mg Lexapro daily, 20 in the holiday season. I ve been "DOWN IN A HOLE". IT S HORIIBLE. IT S SCAREY. I SCARE MYSELF.

When stuff s chugging along well in my training the rest of my life falls in lockstep. There has always been a direct symbiotic relationship with my training either quality or regularity and being productive outside the gym.

Exercising is integral for mental health. Reading here, reading anything new and challenging my brain promotes a desire to train my body. These 2 should be more liberally prescribed than rx meds. But there s no profit in telling someone to MOVE. Just do it--anything s better than dwelling. The Pharm Co s are literally in hog heaven as our obesity stat s rise. I do not know to many very out of shape people who are a joy to be around. They ache and complain and usually develop diab. heart...more rx is not the answer.

Absolutely outstanding feedback
 
If you are taking antidepressants - the first thing I would look at is the three main class of inhibitors or non inhibitors.

Strong Inhibitors
Generic Names / Brand Names

Bupropion --------- Wellbutrin
Fluoxetine --------- Prozac
Paroxetine --------- Paxil
Quinidine ---------- Cardioquin

Moderate Inhibitors
Generic Names / Brand Names

Duloxetine --------- Cymbalta
Sertraline ---------- Zoloft
Diphenhydramine - Benadryl
Thioridazine ------- Mellaril
Amiodarone ------- Cordarone
Trazodone --------- Desyrel
Cimetidine -------- Tagamet

SSRIs and SNRIs That Are Not Inhibitors
Generic Names / Brand Names

Venlavaxine -------- Effexor
Citalopram --------- Celexa
Escitalopram ------- Lexapro

It's the PCT that is usually the concern

Many antidepressants use the same enzyme (CYP2D6) as Nolvadex... so you have two medications
competing for the same pathway.

Antidepressants have priority on the CYP2D6 enzyme therefore making your Nolvadex to be nearly
useless... the non inhibitors are the ones that should not have an effect on this... if you're using any of the
inhibitors, then Clomid would be your choice...

I do recommend researching "each" specific antidepressant before making any decision.

Great topic Vision! :spin:

What repo added here, is the meathead version written in a better term so people can understand the abstract that I submitted... the abstract that I submitted emphasizes on what's taking place here, now read what repo added, everything will make sense
 
Soldier,
Good move. Due to a very injurious career I was hooked on opiates. And benzo s. And was a nightmare. Lost WEEKS. Benzo opiatic induced amnesia. Waking up in weird places with weird women I d not remember meeting. Or in my Bronco in the woods or in my driveway idling out of gas with fast food wrappers all over....w t h ?.

Read up on Kratom--cut ur de tox time in half.

Great call on the Kratom T.

I quit drinking about a year and a half ago (don't feel like I need to)... but it does get boring as fuck!

If you like to party - YOU LIKE TO PARTY... which has always been my challenge - give me a few beers and
I'm best friends with everyone in the room.

And then I discovered Kratom about a year ago... which brings out that side of me that I did like when I was
stepping on a few brain cells...

At the same time I'm still VERY alert... and can remember the night before.

I'll add Kava to the mix... however most of it tastes nasty as fuck and you have to strain it through a fine
strainer to bring out the Kava... EXCEP - I found Kava King Coco Blend that mixes instantly and takes great.

For me - Kava is like having a couple glasses of wine.

The only caution I would mention for Soldier is that sobriety can be a mental roller coaster and if you do try
Kratom or Kava... just make sure you don't let it pull you back into any relapse with suboxone.

You'll have all of us cuckoo's here at Ology pull'n for ya buddy! :D
 
Yup, always on guard. Addictive personality is a tricky bitch....if I like something I tend to overdue
 
.....plus, you guys on this site have been my go to guys for a while now on certain topics. That wont be changing anytime soon. Definantly helps to hear people that been in the same boat as me.
 
(Pssssst...I only slam the door on a person and throw p c and or manners away when someone s tampon s not feeling right and my whine tolerance is 0 )

You ll be fine.

Only e z day was yesterday.
 
Seritonin is a feel good right ? Re uptake inhibitor is fancy talk for " keeps our brain s from either gobbling it up like a fat kid does Twix OR there s a deficit in Twix and they are kept out of same fat kids mouth but still active to be eaten later. Rationing.

Yes, this place is great...saved me more than once...literally.
 
Back
Top