winstrol does have PgR antagonistic effects (primarily antagonistic), its effects on prolactin are unknown. Winstrol may help with gyno from other progestins (it does in some cases), however it can also worse symptoms (not enough is really known about its specific binding in this respect to draw a full conclusion as to why).
article: Why prolactin can ruin your day
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raw lifter
New member
Figured i would add this for some extra reading...
DOSTINEX
THE SEX DRUG
Dostinex (Also known as Cabergoline / Cabaser) is a relatively new drug Dostinex was primarily invented for the purpose of lowering prolactin in patients with a pituitary tumors and other prolactin related conditions. However it seems the potential of Dostinex goes far beyond the treatment of tumors. Dostinex can make sex better, much better for almost anyone, that’s the reason some refers to it as ‘The pleasure drug’ or the ‘Miracle drug’.
So how's Dostinex different from Viagra?
Dostinex is very different from Viagra. Viagra is a medication specifically for erectile dysfunction. Viagra will do absolutely nothing for other essential aspects of good sexual function such as libido (sex drive, arousal & excitement), orgasm and ejaculation.
Viagra is a great medicine and has helped many men achieve erections, but that’s just part of what’s needed. Viagra is much like the erection you sometimes get when you wake up (aka “morning wood”). Viagra will just increase the blood flow in the penis causing an erection. It has nothing to do with libido, orgasm, ejaculation and other elements that constitute good sex. That’s the reason men complain that although they can have erections, sex is still not the same as it was when they were young. Why? Because their libido (sex drive) is much lower than it used to be when they were young.
This is where Dostinex shines over Viagra. Dostinex does everything that Viagra doesn’t do. Dostinex improves libido, orgasm and ejaculation. Dostinex is a new drug from the dopaminergic family of drugs that decreases the hormone prolactin. Prolactin is the number one libido killer! Prolactin is the hormone that is also secreted in women after giving birth. That’s the reason women have extremely low or no sex drive at all after having given birth and for as long as they are breast feeding. Men with high levels of prolactin such as those that suffer from prolactinoma have no sex drive. As we age prolactin levels may become high for many perfectly healthy men, causing low sex drive.
Prolactin is the same hormone is secreted immediately after ejaculation and makes you feel like ‘you don’t feel like anymore’. Its part of the reason you just want to go sleep after ejaculation with no will for another. Dostinex will decrease this hormone and increase your libido substantially. You’ll more likely feel like want to have sex and you may experience multiple orgasms as well as overwhelming orgasms and stronger ejaculations. High levels of prolactin were also shown to cause depression and affect well-being. By lowering prolactin, Dostinex may actually improve your well-being and generally make your ‘feel better’.
Dostinex - The Sex Drug FAQ
What is Dostinex?
Dostinex (Also known as Cabergoline / Cabaser) is a relatively new drug Dostinex was primarily invented for the purpose of lowering prolactin in patients with a pituitary tumors and other prolactin related conditions. However it seems the potential of Dostinex goes far beyond the treatment of tumours. Dostinex can make sex better, much better for almost anyone, that’s the reason some refers to it as ‘The pleasure drug’ or the ‘Miracle drug’.
How much Dostinex is needed for sex enhancement?
Usually people report that half a tab every 4 days is enough to cause the desired increase in sex drive and libido. However, some prefer a full tab every 4 days. Keep in mind that Dostinex is not approved as a sexual enhancement tool, most medical studies about Dostinex were for treating patients with hyperprolactinemia.
Dostinex is the pleasure drug of choice that can work for everybody and not just for people with sexual dysfunction. Dostinex may have the same sexualizing effect on women. This is due to the fact that Dostinex works on the primary sexual order: The brain! While Viagra may be useful for making an erection, Dostinex is useful for actually wanting the erection and enjoying it!
DOSTINEX
THE SEX DRUG
Dostinex (Also known as Cabergoline / Cabaser) is a relatively new drug Dostinex was primarily invented for the purpose of lowering prolactin in patients with a pituitary tumors and other prolactin related conditions. However it seems the potential of Dostinex goes far beyond the treatment of tumors. Dostinex can make sex better, much better for almost anyone, that’s the reason some refers to it as ‘The pleasure drug’ or the ‘Miracle drug’.
So how's Dostinex different from Viagra?
Dostinex is very different from Viagra. Viagra is a medication specifically for erectile dysfunction. Viagra will do absolutely nothing for other essential aspects of good sexual function such as libido (sex drive, arousal & excitement), orgasm and ejaculation.
Viagra is a great medicine and has helped many men achieve erections, but that’s just part of what’s needed. Viagra is much like the erection you sometimes get when you wake up (aka “morning wood”). Viagra will just increase the blood flow in the penis causing an erection. It has nothing to do with libido, orgasm, ejaculation and other elements that constitute good sex. That’s the reason men complain that although they can have erections, sex is still not the same as it was when they were young. Why? Because their libido (sex drive) is much lower than it used to be when they were young.
This is where Dostinex shines over Viagra. Dostinex does everything that Viagra doesn’t do. Dostinex improves libido, orgasm and ejaculation. Dostinex is a new drug from the dopaminergic family of drugs that decreases the hormone prolactin. Prolactin is the number one libido killer! Prolactin is the hormone that is also secreted in women after giving birth. That’s the reason women have extremely low or no sex drive at all after having given birth and for as long as they are breast feeding. Men with high levels of prolactin such as those that suffer from prolactinoma have no sex drive. As we age prolactin levels may become high for many perfectly healthy men, causing low sex drive.
Prolactin is the same hormone is secreted immediately after ejaculation and makes you feel like ‘you don’t feel like anymore’. Its part of the reason you just want to go sleep after ejaculation with no will for another. Dostinex will decrease this hormone and increase your libido substantially. You’ll more likely feel like want to have sex and you may experience multiple orgasms as well as overwhelming orgasms and stronger ejaculations. High levels of prolactin were also shown to cause depression and affect well-being. By lowering prolactin, Dostinex may actually improve your well-being and generally make your ‘feel better’.
Dostinex - The Sex Drug FAQ
What is Dostinex?
Dostinex (Also known as Cabergoline / Cabaser) is a relatively new drug Dostinex was primarily invented for the purpose of lowering prolactin in patients with a pituitary tumors and other prolactin related conditions. However it seems the potential of Dostinex goes far beyond the treatment of tumours. Dostinex can make sex better, much better for almost anyone, that’s the reason some refers to it as ‘The pleasure drug’ or the ‘Miracle drug’.
How much Dostinex is needed for sex enhancement?
Usually people report that half a tab every 4 days is enough to cause the desired increase in sex drive and libido. However, some prefer a full tab every 4 days. Keep in mind that Dostinex is not approved as a sexual enhancement tool, most medical studies about Dostinex were for treating patients with hyperprolactinemia.
Dostinex is the pleasure drug of choice that can work for everybody and not just for people with sexual dysfunction. Dostinex may have the same sexualizing effect on women. This is due to the fact that Dostinex works on the primary sexual order: The brain! While Viagra may be useful for making an erection, Dostinex is useful for actually wanting the erection and enjoying it!
raw lifter
New member
What do we think about this...Heart damage caused by Dostinex?? i've used it, but discontinued usage due to this article...
taken from:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070104/...insons_drug_dc
By Gene Emery and Toni Clarke Thu Jan 4, 8:21 AM ET
BOSTON (Reuters) - Two Parkinson's disease drugs cause the same kind of heart damage that led to the withdrawal of the diet drug combination "fen-phen," according to two studies published on Wednesday.
ADVERTISEMENT
Patients taking the drugs pergolide, developed by Eli Lilly & Co. and sold under the brand name Permax, and cabergoline, developed by Pfizer Inc. and sold under the brand Dostinex, had a sharply higher risk of heart valve damage than those taking other therapies, the studies said.
The studies, one of which analyzed the records of 11,417 patients in Britain and one of which tested 245 patients in Italy, reinforce the results of earlier, smaller studies showing drugs that activate a cellular receptor known as 5-HT2b can cause damage to the heart valve, a serious condition that can lead to heart failure and sudden death.
"We recommend that physicians not prescribe drugs that have this biochemical property," said Bryan Roth, a researcher at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, who was not involved in the trials, but viewed the data and commented on it in The
New England Journal of Medicine, where both studies appeared.
Michael Berelowitz, a Pfizer senior vice president, said cabergoline has very modest sales and is only approved in the United States for hyperprolactinemia -- a condition in which excessive amounts of the hormone prolactin enter the bloodstream due to benign tumors of the pituitary gland.
He said benefits of the Pfizer drug, which is sold in Europe for Parkinson's disease, as well as hyperprolactinemia, outweigh the increased risk of heart valve damage, which is noted in the drug's package insert label.
Lilly officials could not immediately be reached for comment.
Such drugs also include the migraine headache drug ergotamine and the amphetamine derivative known as "ecstasy."
Roth said his team, in a separate piece of research that has yet to be published or reviewed by the scientific community, has identified several other big-selling drugs that have until now not been known to activate the 5-HT2b receptor.
He declined to reveal the names of the drugs until the research has been published.
"We recommend that every drug be screened at this receptor before it goes into humans," Roth told Reuters in an interview. "It costs just pennies per drug for such a screen."
The British study showed patients taking pergolide were 7.1 times more likely to develop heart valve damage than those who took other treatments. Patients taking the highest doses of the drug had a 37 times greater risk.
The study showed patients taking cabergoline were 4.9 times more likely to develop heart valve damage. At higher doses patients were 50.3 times more likely to suffer damage.
Both drugs are available in generic form.
A second study, conducted in Italy, tested 245 people, of whom 155 had Parkinson's disease. Of the diseased population, one group received pergolide, one group received cabergoline and one group received an alternative Parkinson's treatment. The non-diseased control group received nothing.
The results showed that 23.4 percent of patients taking pergolide and 28.6 percent of patients taking cabergoline suffered heart damage, compared with just 5.6 percent in the control group.
"These are huge risks," said Roth.
He added they were similar to the kind of damage seen with fen-phen, whose main ingredients were withdrawn in 1997 and forced the drug-maker Wyeth to take more than $21 billion in charges to cover liabilities.
Wyeth's recalled drugs were fenfluramine, or Pondimin, and dexfenfluramine, or Redux. To make fen-phen, one or the other was combined with another drug called phentermine that is still sold by other companies.
Wyeth, then called American Home Products, recalled Pondimin and Redux after some of the 6 million Americans who had taken fen-phen developed heart-valve problems.
Roth said pergolide is also used to treat restless leg syndrome, a condition in which patients feel a crawling sensation in their legs combined with a need to move them.
taken from:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070104/...insons_drug_dc
By Gene Emery and Toni Clarke Thu Jan 4, 8:21 AM ET
BOSTON (Reuters) - Two Parkinson's disease drugs cause the same kind of heart damage that led to the withdrawal of the diet drug combination "fen-phen," according to two studies published on Wednesday.
ADVERTISEMENT
Patients taking the drugs pergolide, developed by Eli Lilly & Co. and sold under the brand name Permax, and cabergoline, developed by Pfizer Inc. and sold under the brand Dostinex, had a sharply higher risk of heart valve damage than those taking other therapies, the studies said.
The studies, one of which analyzed the records of 11,417 patients in Britain and one of which tested 245 patients in Italy, reinforce the results of earlier, smaller studies showing drugs that activate a cellular receptor known as 5-HT2b can cause damage to the heart valve, a serious condition that can lead to heart failure and sudden death.
"We recommend that physicians not prescribe drugs that have this biochemical property," said Bryan Roth, a researcher at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, who was not involved in the trials, but viewed the data and commented on it in The
New England Journal of Medicine, where both studies appeared.
Michael Berelowitz, a Pfizer senior vice president, said cabergoline has very modest sales and is only approved in the United States for hyperprolactinemia -- a condition in which excessive amounts of the hormone prolactin enter the bloodstream due to benign tumors of the pituitary gland.
He said benefits of the Pfizer drug, which is sold in Europe for Parkinson's disease, as well as hyperprolactinemia, outweigh the increased risk of heart valve damage, which is noted in the drug's package insert label.
Lilly officials could not immediately be reached for comment.
Such drugs also include the migraine headache drug ergotamine and the amphetamine derivative known as "ecstasy."
Roth said his team, in a separate piece of research that has yet to be published or reviewed by the scientific community, has identified several other big-selling drugs that have until now not been known to activate the 5-HT2b receptor.
He declined to reveal the names of the drugs until the research has been published.
"We recommend that every drug be screened at this receptor before it goes into humans," Roth told Reuters in an interview. "It costs just pennies per drug for such a screen."
The British study showed patients taking pergolide were 7.1 times more likely to develop heart valve damage than those who took other treatments. Patients taking the highest doses of the drug had a 37 times greater risk.
The study showed patients taking cabergoline were 4.9 times more likely to develop heart valve damage. At higher doses patients were 50.3 times more likely to suffer damage.
Both drugs are available in generic form.
A second study, conducted in Italy, tested 245 people, of whom 155 had Parkinson's disease. Of the diseased population, one group received pergolide, one group received cabergoline and one group received an alternative Parkinson's treatment. The non-diseased control group received nothing.
The results showed that 23.4 percent of patients taking pergolide and 28.6 percent of patients taking cabergoline suffered heart damage, compared with just 5.6 percent in the control group.
"These are huge risks," said Roth.
He added they were similar to the kind of damage seen with fen-phen, whose main ingredients were withdrawn in 1997 and forced the drug-maker Wyeth to take more than $21 billion in charges to cover liabilities.
Wyeth's recalled drugs were fenfluramine, or Pondimin, and dexfenfluramine, or Redux. To make fen-phen, one or the other was combined with another drug called phentermine that is still sold by other companies.
Wyeth, then called American Home Products, recalled Pondimin and Redux after some of the 6 million Americans who had taken fen-phen developed heart-valve problems.
Roth said pergolide is also used to treat restless leg syndrome, a condition in which patients feel a crawling sensation in their legs combined with a need to move them.
dostinex (cabergoline) is linked mitral valve issues in a very small number of patients (though that number is 3-5 times the population average) taking more than 3mg/day for more than 6 months (there was no link found with less than 6 months usage). There is no evidence that it causes ANY such issues at dosages used to treat hyperprolactinemia which maximum is 1mg/day (bodybuilders rarely dose even that high for more than 1-2 weeks with dose typically "maintainance dose" being .5mg e3d-e4d)
issues are completely dose dependant (high tissue concentrations are needed for the 5ht binding that has been linked to such issues)
basically unless you are taking it for parkinsons, its a non issue.
issues are completely dose dependant (high tissue concentrations are needed for the 5ht binding that has been linked to such issues)
basically unless you are taking it for parkinsons, its a non issue.
simpllyhuge
New member
is this the drug drug that doctors would prescribe long term for some one who naturally had high prolactin levels.
RichGenetics
"Resident BadAss"
macro said:
So I guess being that I have a mild case of mitral valve prolapse, it would be wise to not invest in anymore cabergoline?
I have had the sex drive problems for a while now and I just don't know what the deal is. It's off and on, hit and miss.
I sometimes freak myself out since I have MVP and I'm even taking mild to low cycles, but I get regular checkups, ECHO's, stress tests, blood work, and everything keeps coming back perfect so I'll keep trucking along...
simpllyhuge
New member
i never feel like i have strong erections expept when i first started taking test like 3 years ago. then i went on non stop and i think towards the end i started having shitty erections again but i had a strong drive. Im seeing a urologist and im on off juice for about 6 months now but i was on for like 3 years so it will take a while even thou my nuts are totally back.
I have a really long refractory period and after i ejaculate which is usually fast, i then i have no drive again for a long time. The doctors try to tell me its mentall but i know its not. its like i could have a really really hot girl who i love and after fuck her there is no way i can mantain a full erection and do it again.
im going to get more bloods done in like a week but hope fully with in a year my levels will all be good, the problem is that a shitty sex drive is the reason i started using test in the first place.
i also feel like soarness after ejacualting and if i were to get another erection its like it feels constricted, this might be because my shaft has a twist.
i have had my proclatin tested before and it was normal
what other bloods to you suggest i get done besides test freetest prolactin and estrogen.
some doctors have told me some people just have really long refractory periods and its just the way they are wired and that nothing cant be done about it. i hope this isnt true but it was the case almost all the time even when i was on juice at 750 of test.
I have a really long refractory period and after i ejaculate which is usually fast, i then i have no drive again for a long time. The doctors try to tell me its mentall but i know its not. its like i could have a really really hot girl who i love and after fuck her there is no way i can mantain a full erection and do it again.
im going to get more bloods done in like a week but hope fully with in a year my levels will all be good, the problem is that a shitty sex drive is the reason i started using test in the first place.
i also feel like soarness after ejacualting and if i were to get another erection its like it feels constricted, this might be because my shaft has a twist.
i have had my proclatin tested before and it was normal
what other bloods to you suggest i get done besides test freetest prolactin and estrogen.
some doctors have told me some people just have really long refractory periods and its just the way they are wired and that nothing cant be done about it. i hope this isnt true but it was the case almost all the time even when i was on juice at 750 of test.
RichGenetics said:
would discuss it with your doctor. Really cant say whether low doses might make it worse (though leaning towards not), the only link has been between very high doses (3mg/day for over 6 months) causing it (in a rather small portion of people).
low doses should probably not present an issue (its the receptor cross binding to 5ht2 at high doses thats implicated)
RichGenetics
"Resident BadAss"
macro said:
Thanks so much Mac. I feel better about the situation now. Unfortunately, like many people, I can't discuss the Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) with my doctor because she's already screwed me up in my life insurance planning for the next 2 years.
I had blood work done 3 1/2 years ago, probably longer, and she noticed very high test serum & test levels and I did tell her that I was on Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) at the time. She then documented this in her files and when I went to get a 2 million dollar policy this past fall, they pulled my files and denied me coverage because of prior Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use.
So beware of telling your doc anything like this no matter if they say they don't share the info or not, because they do. I was totally pissed off and talking about it still makes me LIVID!!!
RichGenetics said:
discuss it outside that context, or see an outside physician. Cabergoline is commonly prescribed for erectile and libido issues, as well as prolactin problems (which quite often are not Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) related). Would only discuss her OPINION on whether low dose cabergoline presents issues with your mitral valve problem. Would NOT ask for a script would just order it from aurapharm (it will be cheaper anyways- since the copay if its even covered will still be higher priced- most scripts for dost are 6 1mg tabs MAX for 30 days- more likely 3-4 tabs- so even with a 10$ copay- which you wont get- it barely saves you. with a 50$ copay- which is still not a given- you are paying out way more)....
even if you get a script, would still order it from aurapharm.
JMHO
dfresh333 said:
actually prolactin can also be a factor there as well, USUALLY from estrogen issues, but not necessarily. For instance Dbol has impact on the dopamine system (different from other AAS) and while usually that impact would lower prolactin it can go the other way (even in people where previously it may have been the opposite).
androgens can also modulate prolactin, so even non aromatizing no PGR active Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) can cause prolactin issues (its less likely, but certainly possible).
also now that the topic has been brought up, there are metabolites of these steroids which can have all kinds of modulatory activity--- and the ratios of these metabolites can change quite significantly with age, enzyme regulating factors and a host of other things.
for this reason, generally reccomend cabaser be kept on hand. It can be quite useful, even if prolactin itself is not elevated (because suppressing "normal" prolactin can decrease gyno issues- since normal prolactin can be agonistic if other hormones are out of "whack"-- so to speak)..
RichGenetics
"Resident BadAss"
macro said:
I could try to do that seeing how she knows my entire medical history and is my primary care physician. I may just tell her that I've been having some issues with the big man downstairs and was reading that cabergoline could actually be something that I could benefit from to get my sex drive back to normal. I'll figure something out.
What's wrong with ordering cabergoline thats in research liquid form? I have some of that on hand right now. I could order some from aurapharm though, either way. I heard the liquid had some issues with consistency but maybe that's not true, I don't know.
And, with prolactin gyno, would doing a test enanthate, tren, and anavar cycle be something I should worry about? I am very excited about the upcoming tren addition to my cycle because of the extensively clean gear I'm using, I can only imagine how clean the tren will be. I don't want gyno, so maybe I'll add the cabergoline to the cycle in mild dosages if my doctor gives me the green light.
Recommendations for dosing?
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