Blood work came back with high estrogen. Next steps?

[Havasu]

Currently running a cycle of Sustanon at 600mg ew. After about a month in I noticed some sensitivity in my nipples, no lumps. So, I bumped up my Arimidex dosage from .5mg eod, to 1mg eod. After approx. 2 weeks at that dosage I noticed I had a back ache one day. I bumped my next Arimidex dose down to .5mg and the back ache went away. Raised the next one up to 1mg, and the back ache came back. At this point I suspected my estrogen was too low, but I wanted to be sure, so I went to get bloodwork done. The morning of the test was last Tuesday was the day for my next dose of arimidex. I did not take it before the blood test, I took it after. The previous dose on the previous Sunday was 1mg. I figure even if I hadn't taken the dose of Arimidex that morning my Estradiol shouldn't have been 63.

I still have no lumps, but I do have nipple sensitivity. However, I'm obviously concerned. What I want to know is, what should be my next steps? How should I begin to dose the Arimidex to get my estrogen under control? Is 1mg ed for now too aggressive, or is that even too low? Also, along with the dose how long should I wait to get bloodwork again to see if the protocol brings me back within range. From what I've read around here 25-30 is a good range. If that is not correct, then what is the range I should be looking for? Thanks for any/all advice.

 

[ken3531]

I get some shitty aches and pains too on adex. I have used aromasin and I like it much more than adex because I don't get those low estrogen symptoms ( and still somehow have high estrogen!)

1mg eod of adex is a pretty solid dose so I might try something else like aromasin or letro.

 

[ken3531]

By the way, is your adex from a reputable supplier?

 

[hunnster]

The arimidex cuts off the convertion of testosterone to estrogen. However the estrogen that is currently is free to do some damage.
This is a good article on anti-estrogen.
anabolicsteroids-hormoneknowledge-bigmuscles-drugs.com/Anti-Estrogens.html

 

[Mr.Port]

I have used dex at 0.25mg ed-eod to 1mg eod. I found that 0.5mg eod worked best. but of course not everyone is the same.
Have you tried aromasin or letro before?
I did about 0.6mg eod on the letro on a heavy cycle couple years ago and it seemed to work well.

 

[Havasu]

I have two sources of Adex. One from the same supplier as my test. And my test is through the roof right now (3170), so I assume the Adex is good too. Those are 1mg capsules. My other source is RUI, and I'm confident in RUI's products. I have aromasin on hand from rui as well. From what I understand though, isn't aromasin (exemestane) which is a weaker AI than adex? Not sure if that would be a good thing if that is true, since I'm not under control with adex right now. I did wanted to see if people would suggest Letro for me since it is more potent. I do not have that on hand, but could begin higher doses of adex, or aromasin and adex together until I received the letro, if that is what is needed.

 

[Havasu]

I have used dex at 0.25mg ed-eod to 1mg eod. I found that 0.5mg eod worked best. but of course not everyone is the same.
Have you tried aromasin or letro before?
I did about 0.6mg eod on the letro on a heavy cycle couple years ago and it seemed to work well.

I haven't used Letro, or aromasin before, however I do have aromasin on hand from RUI. I would have to get letro if adex doesn't bring it under control. If I were to try aromasin what dosing protocol would be recommended to get my estradiol under control sooner than later? Thanks for all the advice!

 

[hunnster]

I have two sources of Adex. One from the same supplier as my test. And my test is through the roof right now (3170), so I assume the Adex is good too. Those are 1mg capsules. My other source is RUI, and I'm confident in RUI's products. I have aromasin on hand from rui as well. From what I understand though, isn't aromasin (exemestane) which is a weaker AI than adex? Not sure if that would be a good thing if that is true, since I'm not under control with adex right now. I did wanted to see if people would suggest Letro for me since it is more potent. I do not have that on hand, but could begin higher doses of adex, or aromasin and adex together until I received the letro, if that is what is needed.

Take nolva for a few days/weeks, wait until all the excessive accumulated estrogen is out of your system and take 1 arimidex eod or 1/2 ed. Also read the article I posted above, it explains what is going on.

 

[Havasu]

Will read the article here shortly (at work). Would I be able to use Torem instead of Nolva? I have some of that on hand from rui. Would it have the same effect? If so, at what dosage?

 

[hunnster]

I'm not familiar with that drug. What you want is a drug which works similar to nolvadex, something that blocks the receptor. I would just go for nolvadex, simple and easy. However there is something in the literature about novadex and arimidex together and nolvadex might render arimidex a bit less effective. I'm not sure why, you should also google that, I´m guessing it's not much to worry about though.

 

[Havasu]

I'm not familiar with that drug. What you want is a drug which works similar to nolvadex, something that blocks the receptor. I would just go for nolvadex, simple and easy. However there is something in the literature about novadex and arimidex together and nolvadex might render arimidex a bit less effective. I'm not sure why, you should also google that, I´m guessing it's not much to worry about though.

Here is a link to a description of Torem. It's similar to Nolva

Liquid Torem 60mgs/mL 60mL - SERMs - Ancillaries

 

[Test Rage]

The best item for direct blockage of estrogen at breast tissue is the SERM "Raloxifene". RUI carries it. Also with regards to the best AI I stumbled upon this:

"Arimidex is not a good aromatase inhibitor for men. Stick with aromasin. Arimidex is a weak inhibitor of E2(it's strength is inhibiting E1 in women. Not well suited for men). It's also a competitive inhibitor (not a suicide inhibitor) so you'll get a rebound when you come off or need a higher dose. Aromasin is a much better solution. It binds to the aromatase and kills it. So there is no rebound and stops more E2 production.

Arimidex is a competitive inhibitor so it competes for the binding site of the enzyme with testosterone and blocks it from getting converted to estrogen. It's not very good at it, but that's what it does. So the enzyme is still present in large numbers because your body overcompensates. When you stop the Arimidex the blockade is gone and the E2 levels soar. That is why suicide inhibitors like aromasin are preferred.

When it comes to this comparison its more about type of estrogen suppression as opposed to "strength". Arimidex is a VERY potent sulfatase inhibitor, which inhibits estrone. It is a moderately strong aromatase inhibitor (weak as compared to aromasin, AIFM or letrozole). This is fine for women with breast cancer who produce percentage wise very high levels of estrone (the weak estrogen), which can be converted to estradiol (the strong estrogen) via aromatase.

For men this is generally not very good, especially for men on TRT since sulfatase inhibitors have very little effect on exogenous testosterone. Actually its generally not a good thing since it nearly completely eliminates estrone, while still allowing estradiol. If you have a choice as a man, you want estrone (weak estrogen) with near total elimination of estradiol (strong). AIFM and aromasin do inhibit sulfatase, though to a lesser extent than the competitive inhibitors (dex and letro). They are both potent aromatase inhibitors and highly suppress estradiol. Since exogenous test converts to estradiol via aromatase, AIFM and aromasin are much better suited.

Lowest doses of letrozole completely suppresses glandular production of estrone(E1). while it generally takes higher end doses of exemestane (aromasin) to come close to doing this. Exemestane dose dependantly decreases estradiol and to a lesser extent estrone. Basically aromasin at low doses is mostly peripheral, which means blocking conversion of estrone, testosterone and other aromatic precursors to estradiol. Whereas because they are competitive inhibitors that have high permeability through tissue types, arimidex and letrozole have high affinity and saturation of tissues like testes and adrenals, where estrone is produced. They highly block synthesis of aromatase in those tissues at even lowest doses."


-Torem and Clomid are superior for HPTA recovery. Nolva is quite toxic and will probably will end up being replaced in the long run by Torem.

 

[Havasu]

The best item for direct blockage of estrogen at breast tissue is the SERM "Raloxifene". RUI carries it. Also with regards to the best AI I stumbled upon this:

"Arimidex is not a good aromatase inhibitor for men. Stick with aromasin. Arimidex is a weak inhibitor of E2(it's strength is inhibiting E1 in women. Not well suited for men). It's also a competitive inhibitor (not a suicide inhibitor) so you'll get a rebound when you come off or need a higher dose. Aromasin is a much better solution. It binds to the aromatase and kills it. So there is no rebound and stops more E2 production.

Arimidex is a competitive inhibitor so it competes for the binding site of the enzyme with testosterone and blocks it from getting converted to estrogen. It's not very good at it, but that's what it does. So the enzyme is still present in large numbers because your body overcompensates. When you stop the Arimidex the blockade is gone and the E2 levels soar. That is why suicide inhibitors like aromasin are preferred.

When it comes to this comparison its more about type of estrogen suppression as opposed to "strength". Arimidex is a VERY potent sulfatase inhibitor, which inhibits estrone. It is a moderately strong aromatase inhibitor (weak as compared to aromasin, AIFM or letrozole). This is fine for women with breast cancer who produce percentage wise very high levels of estrone (the weak estrogen), which can be converted to estradiol (the strong estrogen) via aromatase.

For men this is generally not very good, especially for men on TRT since sulfatase inhibitors have very little effect on exogenous testosterone. Actually its generally not a good thing since it nearly completely eliminates estrone, while still allowing estradiol. If you have a choice as a man, you want estrone (weak estrogen) with near total elimination of estradiol (strong). AIFM and aromasin do inhibit sulfatase, though to a lesser extent than the competitive inhibitors (dex and letro). They are both potent aromatase inhibitors and highly suppress estradiol. Since exogenous test converts to estradiol via aromatase, AIFM and aromasin are much better suited.

Lowest doses of letrozole completely suppresses glandular production of estrone(E1). while it generally takes higher end doses of exemestane (aromasin) to come close to doing this. Exemestane dose dependantly decreases estradiol and to a lesser extent estrone. Basically aromasin at low doses is mostly peripheral, which means blocking conversion of estrone, testosterone and other aromatic precursors to estradiol. Whereas because they are competitive inhibitors that have high permeability through tissue types, arimidex and letrozole have high affinity and saturation of tissues like testes and adrenals, where estrone is produced. They highly block synthesis of aromatase in those tissues at even lowest doses."


-Torem and Clomid are superior for HPTA recovery. Nolva is quite toxic and will probably will end up being replaced in the long run by Torem.

Ok I have exemestane on hand (aromasin). From what I read I need a higher dose of exemestane to get my estradiol back in range. What dosage would you recommend to get it under control, and what does would you recommend for management after that. Also, as someone else suggested is it recommended to take some raloxifene for now along with the aromasin until I'm in range?

 

[DreDay187]

The best item for direct blockage of estrogen at breast tissue is the SERM "Raloxifene". RUI carries it. Also with regards to the best AI I stumbled upon this:

"Arimidex is not a good aromatase inhibitor for men. Stick with aromasin. Arimidex is a weak inhibitor of E2(it's strength is inhibiting E1 in women. Not well suited for men). It's also a competitive inhibitor (not a suicide inhibitor) so you'll get a rebound when you come off or need a higher dose. Aromasin is a much better solution. It binds to the aromatase and kills it. So there is no rebound and stops more E2 production.

Arimidex is a competitive inhibitor so it competes for the binding site of the enzyme with testosterone and blocks it from getting converted to estrogen. It's not very good at it, but that's what it does. So the enzyme is still present in large numbers because your body overcompensates. When you stop the Arimidex the blockade is gone and the E2 levels soar. That is why suicide inhibitors like aromasin are preferred.

When it comes to this comparison its more about type of estrogen suppression as opposed to "strength". Arimidex is a VERY potent sulfatase inhibitor, which inhibits estrone. It is a moderately strong aromatase inhibitor (weak as compared to aromasin, AIFM or letrozole). This is fine for women with breast cancer who produce percentage wise very high levels of estrone (the weak estrogen), which can be converted to estradiol (the strong estrogen) via aromatase.

For men this is generally not very good, especially for men on TRT since sulfatase inhibitors have very little effect on exogenous testosterone. Actually its generally not a good thing since it nearly completely eliminates estrone, while still allowing estradiol. If you have a choice as a man, you want estrone (weak estrogen) with near total elimination of estradiol (strong). AIFM and aromasin do inhibit sulfatase, though to a lesser extent than the competitive inhibitors (dex and letro). They are both potent aromatase inhibitors and highly suppress estradiol. Since exogenous test converts to estradiol via aromatase, AIFM and aromasin are much better suited.

Lowest doses of letrozole completely suppresses glandular production of estrone(E1). while it generally takes higher end doses of exemestane (aromasin) to come close to doing this. Exemestane dose dependantly decreases estradiol and to a lesser extent estrone. Basically aromasin at low doses is mostly peripheral, which means blocking conversion of estrone, testosterone and other aromatic precursors to estradiol. Whereas because they are competitive inhibitors that have high permeability through tissue types, arimidex and letrozole have high affinity and saturation of tissues like testes and adrenals, where estrone is produced. They highly block synthesis of aromatase in those tissues at even lowest doses."


-Torem and Clomid are superior for HPTA recovery. Nolva is quite toxic and will probably will end up being replaced in the long run by Torem.

This article was posted the other day and is a far cry from being a solid source of info. Much of the supposed facts in it are flat out false. I'd suggest not paying attention to what you read in it

You may believe nolva is about to be replaced but it has yet to be for a reason. It's very good at what it's supposed to do. Please show proof that nolva is quite toxic as in all studies performed on it it was well tolerated among patients.

 

[Havasu]

This article was posted the other day and is a far cry from being a solid source of info. Much of the supposed facts in it are flat out false. I'd suggest not paying attention to what you read in it

You may believe nolva is about to be replaced but it has yet to be for a reason. It's very good at what it's supposed to do. Please show proof that nolva is quite toxic as in all studies performed on it it was well tolerated among patients.

Dre,

What would be your recommendation from what you read in my original post? Thanks.

 

[DreDay187]

Dre,

What would be your recommendation from what you read in my original post? Thanks.

Your blood test isn't extremely useful bc you flip flopped dosages but what's the range and units for your 63 reading? It's not that high even though it maybe slightly out of range. Also nipple sensitivity could have any number of a thousand different causes, it's not an accurate indicator of gyno. I would go back to using the adex at .5mg EOD or ED and retest after a week of being consistent on that dose. That should be enough to keep you in a good range. If gyno does form for some reason make sure it's gyno before attempting to treat it with a SERM like nolva or ralox. It will feel like a small lump but a different density than the fat in the breast tissue.

 

[Havasu]

Your blood test isn't extremely useful bc you flip flopped dosages but what's the range and units for your 63 reading? It's not that high even though it maybe slightly out of range. Also nipple sensitivity could have any number of a thousand different causes, it's not an accurate indicator of gyno. I would go back to using the adex at .5mg EOD or ED and retest after a week of being consistent on that dose. That should be enough to keep you in a good range. If gyno does form for some reason make sure it's gyno before attempting to treat it with a SERM like nolva or ralox. It will feel like a small lump but a different density than the fat in the breast tissue.

The range for Estradiol from LabCorps, which is where I went for my blood work is 7.6-42.6 pg/ml. My current level is 63.1 pg/ml.

Thanks. I just want to control the estrogen. Thankfully no gyno has presented itself (no lumps). However, I do have raloxifene on hand, should I use any of that with the arimidex for the time being, or no need?

 

[louman]

I thought nolva was just to block estrogen from binding to breast tissue not actually lowering the estrogen in blood. I thought adex was best for lowering the estrogen in blood.

 

[DreDay187]

The range for Estradiol from LabCorps, which is where I went for my blood work is 7.6-42.6 pg/ml. My current level is 63.1 pg/ml.

Thanks. I just want to control the estrogen. Thankfully no gyno has presented itself (no lumps). However, I do have raloxifene on hand, should I use any of that with the arimidex for the time being, or no need?

Your estradiol isn't ridiculously high so I wouldn't stress over it yet. Keep up with the AI and retest again. Adjust as necessary. Just keep it simple to keep the variables to a minimum.

If you have no gyno there's no reason to use the raloxifene while on the cycle although should gyno be present, yes ralox is your best bet to reverse it.

I thought nolva was just to block estrogen from binding to breast tissue not actually lowering the estrogen in blood. I thought adex was best for lowering the estrogen in blood.

^^^this with some modifications lol.

Nolva does block estrogen from the breast tissue so here it acts as an antagonist. But Nolva also acts on more than just breast tissue where it's usually an agonist. The hypothalamus is one example. In this case it could help with the LH production which is the main reason it's used in PCT.

Adex doesn't physically reduce circulating estrogen. It prevents the conversion of androgens to estrogen which indirectly lowers estrogen. Same idea but technically slightly different mechanism of action.

 

[KingBF]

so what does eliminate the estrogen circling in the system? or once you have high estro you up your dose of Ai and wait for it to fix itself?