Bro's: PLEASE tell me you're concerned about your PROSTATE Health???

GreasyGreek said:
I didn't know finasteride was harsh on the liver. Can anyone dig up some info on this? I'm really curious, because I have run it with orals before... I normally split proscar tabs into 4 and take 1.25 mgs per day.

The chemical finasteride blocks 5-alpha reductase type-1 isoenzyme (5aR-1) which gene is found in highest concentrations in skin and liver. There is the another type of 5-alpha reductase type 2 isoenzyme (5aR-2) which gene is fond in highest concentrations in liver and genital tissue including the prostate. 5-aR burns (converts) testosterone into DHT that stimulate tissues to expand or enlarge in the genital tissues and that destroys the hair rooting cells where the blood circulation is so poor that excessive DHT is trapped in the top thin layer of skin.
Since the genes for both 5aR-1 and 5aR-2 are found in highest concentration in liver, any drugs in an attempt to stop the gene expression of 5aR-1 and 5aR-2 will (dose dependent) result in a reduction of liver functions.

:afro:
 
buffdoc said:
I think it's not too early to start even in the 20's, especially if one uses AAS.
Also, remember that the prostate is a sex organ; most of the seminal fluid (ie, jizz) is made in the prostate. Important for nourishing the spermatozoa (as well as your g/f!) Whoops, sorry!
Prostate enlargement isn't the only thing that'll get you. Very young men can develop acute or chronic prostatitis. Not fun!
But at any rate, the prostate generally enlarges slowly over a period of years, so there's no reason to wait until the 40's or 50's when symptoms arise to pay attention to it. That's sort of like waiting until the coronary arteries are 90% stenosed, and chest pain begins, to change the diet and look at HDL and inflammation in the bloodstream.
So yes, at least some zinc, a good multi, and maybe some saw
palmetto, and other herbs.

Good call bro..... Thanks, I take multi-vitamins every day and adding some saw palmetto can't hurt.....
 
i always run saw palmetto... i take a multi (2xaday) and zinc at nite.. should i take anything else i am age 25
 
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That's probably all right asd a preventative at your age. Unless you have a familial history, personal history, or are taking high doses of test or test/DHT analogues (----->DHT).....then I'd double up on the saw palmetto! It's cheap and well worth the added piece of mind.

For the record, saw palmetto is NOT used to just diminish the assault on the prostate from DHT; it can also be useful with:

Impotence or other erection problems
Frequent night-time urination
Irregular urine flow
Urination pain
Low energy
Insomnia
Depression
Sexual desire (used in some countries as an aphrodisiac)
Hair Loss (depends on the type)
 
Drveejay, good post, thanks.


GreasyGreek said:
I didn't know finasteride was harsh on the liver. Can anyone dig up some info on this? I'm really curious, because I have run it with orals before... I normally split proscar tabs into 4 and take 1.25 mgs per day.

According to the studies I've seen it seems to be quite safe.

Urology 2001 Apr;57(4 Suppl 1):64-7 Related Articles, Links


Androgen antagonists: Potential role in prostate cancer prevention.

Trump DL, Waldstreicher JA, Kolvenbag G, Wissel PS, Neubauer BL.

University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15213, USA.

This article summarizes discussions of the importance of androgens and androgen antagonists in the genesis of prostate cancer. These discussions occurred at a recent symposium on prostate cancer chemoprevention sponsored by the National Cancer Institute. Considerable information exists indicating the importance of androgens in the development of prostate cancer. Trials in breast cancer indicate that estrogen antagonists prevent breast cancer-suggesting, by analogy, that the blockade of androgen action might prevent the emergence of prostate cancer. The 5alpha-reductase inhibitors block the intracellular metabolism of testosterone and inhibit the growth of the prostate. Limited data suggest that 5alpha-reductase inhibitors reduces prostate-specific antigen in men with localized and advanced, primary or recurrent prostate cancer. An ongoing national trial of 18,000 men over 50 years of age has completed accrual and will evaluate whether a standard dose of finasteride will prevent the development of prostate cancer. The toxicity profile of finasteride (Proscar, Merck & Co., West Point, PA), the only approved 5alpha-reductase inhibitor, is favorable leading to its evaluation as a potential chemopreventive agent for prostate cancer. Anti-androgens such as bicalutamide (Casodex, AstraZeneca, Wilmington, DE) are active in the treatment of prostate cancer and comparable, in some trials, to testicular androgen suppression. These data suggest that antiandrogens may be active in the prevention of prostate cancer; however, the toxicity of antiandrogens (gynecomastia, gastrointestinal toxicity) poses concerns for application in prevention studies. Opportunities for study of factors predictive or associated with the development of prostate cancer and new agents that may interrupt this process offer numerous leads that may reduce the incidence of prostate cancer.



Hinyokika Kiyo 1996 Apr;42(4):323-31 Related Articles, Links


Effect of long-term administration of finasteride (MK-906), an inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase, in patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia.

Yoshida O, Oishi K, Okada Y, Mizutani Y, Itokawa Y, Tomoyoshi T, Okada K, Komatz Y, Matsuda T, Takeuchi H.

Department of Urology, Faculty of Medicine, Kyoto University, Japan.

We evaluated the effect of long-term administration of finasteride (MK-906), a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase in patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). The effect of an increase in dose was also assessed. Finasteride was administered to 61 patients with BPH at the dose of 1 mg/day for 48 weeks. Thirty three of these patients subsequently received finasteride at the dose of 5 mg/day for further 24 weeks in an open extension study. Urinary symptoms, urinary flow rate, residual urinary volume, prostatic volume and serum concentrations of dihydrotestosterone and prostate-specific antigen were examined periodically during the treatment. The size of the prostate and total urinary symptom scores decreased progressively during the first 16 weeks of treatment. The patients who received finasteride had a significant increase in the maximal urinary flow rate and a significant decrease in residual urinary volume. After 72 weeks of treatment, finasteride at an increased dose of 5 mg did not provide additional benefit to patients, although the effects of the drug at a dose of 1 mg were well maintained. Treatment with finasteride was well tolerated at both doses. In conclusion, the treatment of BPH with 1 mg of finasteride per day for 48 weeks results in a significant increase in maximal urinary flow rate, and a decrease in prostatic volume, symptoms of obstruction and residual urinary volume, with minimal toxicity.


Kaohsiung J Med Sci 2002 Aug;18(8):379-85 Related Articles, Links


Finasteride in the treatment of Taiwanese men with androgenetic alopecia: a 12-month open-label study.

Lin JH, Chen WC.

Department of Dermatology, College of Medicine, National Cheng Kung University, 138 Sheng-Li Road, Tainan 704, Taiwan.

Finasteride 1 mg/day is effective in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia (AGA). Our open-label study assessed the efficacy and safety of finasteride for the treatment of Taiwanese men with AGA. We enrolled 34 Taiwanese men (aged 18-40 yr) with AGA of modified Norwood/Hamilton scale (MNHS) grade II-V. In investigator assessments at 12 months, five of 21 subjects (23.8%) had two-grade improvement in MNHS grade and 12 of 21 subjects (57.1%) had one-grade improvement; the others remained at the same grade. In global photographic evaluation, five of 31 subjects (15.1%) had observable hair growth at 6 months and 11 of 21 subjects (52.4%) had observable hair growth at 12 months. Patient self-assessment of hair growth was favorable across all questions in the treatment course, more significantly at 12 months than at 6 months; nine of 21 subjects (42.9%) were satisfied with their overall appearance at 12 months. Serum prostate specific antigen levels had decreased by 23.4% at 12 months. Adverse effects, including abnormal liver function (5/34), were minimal, and the causal relationship with finasteride could not be established. Thus, in Taiwanese men with AGA, finasteride 1 mg/day for 1 year slowed the progression of hair loss and increased hair growth.


The effet on HDL/La

Atherosclerosis 2000 Sep;152(1):159-66 Related Articles, Links


Changes in HDL-cholesterol and lipoprotein Lp(a) after 6-month treatment with finasteride in males affected by benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH).

Denti L, Pasolini G, Cortellini P, Sanfelici L, Benedetti R, Cecchetti A, Ferretti S, Bruschieri L, Ablondi F, Valenti G.

Department of Geriatrics, Cattedra di Gerontologia e Geriatria, Universita di Parma, Via Don Bosco 2, 43100, Parma, Italy.

Androgen effects on lipoproteins, mainly high density lipoprotein (HDL), could be exerted by a direct interaction of testosterone (T) or dihydrotestosterone (DHT) with liver androgen receptors. To assess if T needs to be converted into DHT to affect lipid metabolism, 13 patients were studied, affected with benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) and treated with an inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase (finasteride). They were compared with 15 untreated controls. At baseline and after 3 and 6 months of therapy, each patient was evaluated as for lipoprotein and hormone concentrations, as well as for nutritional status. Body composition was assessed by anthropometry and bio-impedance analysis (BIA). Treatment was associated with a significant increase of HDL-cholesterol (HDL-C), mainly HDL3 subclass, and lipoprotein(a) (Lp(a)), as well as a decline of DHT, whereas no significant changes were apparent for T, estradiol (E2), sex hormone binding hormone (SHBG) and body composition indexes. However, no significant associations between DHT and lipid relative changes were apparent at bivariate correlation analysis. This finding was confirmed by comparing patient subsets identified by cluster analysis, according to HDL subclass individual responses. Rather, a slight association with E2 for HDL2 (positive) and HDL3 (negative) was found. In conclusion, finasteride can modify HDL and Lp(a) concentrations. However, by the data, these effects cannot be definitively attributed to the changes in DHT synthesis induced by finasteride, since a direct and non-specific interference of the drug on liver metabolism cannot be excluded.
 
what dosage of saw palmetto do you think is optimal while on TEST only, say 500mg again nothing else...

also can anyone give any info/experience on the other benefits of saw palmetto and perhaps some good brands

thanks
 
What is a typical daily dose for saw palmetto ?

Unfortunately it is difficult to give a straight answer. There is no standard potency for Saw Palmetto. Different brands have different strengths so while people might claim they are taking "x" mgs a day, just how much of that is truely active saw palmetto is difficult to say.

However, most people seem to take 320mgs a day (2x160mgs). There are pills up to 500mgs available - at least 500mgs is claimed on the side of the packet!. Of the few dermatologists that use saw palmetto, some recommend up to 1000mgs per day in conjunction with other treatments. A few people take as much as 2000mg a day. However, there is no evidence that high intake is any more effective than the typical dose.

There is a law of diminishing returns when taking 5 alpha reductase inhibitors. A small amount of inhibitor is very effective at removing up 80% of reductase activity. However, it is difficult to remove more activity beyond this even with much higher drug doses. Mega doses do not really help and could potentially increase the chance of side effects.

When selecting Saw Palmetto for use ignore those products that contain leaves or other parts of the Saw Palmetto plant. It is oil extracts from Saw Palmetto berries that contain the active inhibitors of 5 alpha reductase. Extracts from other parts of the plant do not contain any of the desired active compounds.

:afro:
 
If finasteride does indeed "inhibit liver function" that is not the same thing as concluding it causes hepatotoxity.

Also, it is looking more and more like estrogen is the real culprit in causing prostate problems, not DHT. I don't think it is a coincidence that the incidence of BPH and Prostate CA is highest at the time in life when DHT is the LOWEST, and estrogen is HIGHEST. Also, when DHT was tested as sole testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) (Testosterone Replacement Therapy), there was absolutely no increase in prostate morbidity. If you study the pathways, you will see that increasing DHT will also reduce estrogens. Finally, there is some evidence that Nolvadex may protect the prostate from cancer due to its estrogen-blocking properties. Just some food for thought.
 
Re: Great product! (Roex.com)

thanks for the info bro.





DRveejay11 said:
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

Roex® ADVANCED MEN'S FORMULA a Saw Palmetto, Pygeum, Stinging Nettle Complex with Zinc, plus support herbs Cranberry, Pumpkin Seed, Echinacea, and vitamins B6, D, E which has been designed to assist in promoting a healthy prostate.*

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 3 Tablets
Amount Per Serving
% Daily Value
Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine HCL) 50.00 mg
2,500.00

Vitamin D (as Cholecalciferol) 200.00 I.U.
50.00

Vitamin E (as dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate) 100.00 I.U.
333.33

Copper (as Cupric Oxide) 1.00 mg
50.00

Zinc (as Zinc Chelate) 15.00 mg
100.00

Saw Palmetto Berry 320.00 mg
*

Glutamic Acid (as l-Glutamic Acid) 250.00 mg
*

Glycine (as l-Clycine) 250.00 mg
*

Lysine (as l-Lysine HCL) 250.00 mg
*

Glycine Max Bean (Soy) 150.00 mg
*

Echinacea Purpurea Herb 120.00 mg
*

Stinging Nettle Leaf 120.00
*

Pyguem Africanum Bark Extract 120.00
*

Curcurbita Pepo Seed (Pumpkin) 100.00 mg
*

Saw Palmetto Berry Extract 100.00 mg
*

Vaccinium Macrocarpon Extract (Cranberry) 75.00 mg
*

Beta Sitosterol 21.00 mg
*


The ingredients ROEX® has combined in THE ADVANCED MEN'S FORMULA® Prostate Complex were chosen due to their documented nutritional support for a healthy prostate and urinary tract function. Key to this formula is the extract of the herb Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens), which has been shown to promote healthy prostate. To this formula ROEX® adds additional nutritional support such as Zinc Chelate, Pumpkin Seed, Pygeum Bark Extract (Prunus africana), Cranberry Extract, Stinging Nettle Root, and Echinacea purpurea, as well as vitamins B6, D, E and amino acids Glycine, L-Lysine and Glutamic Acid. ROEX® ADVANCED MEN'S FORMULA® Prostate Complex is based on the latest scientific research for optimal prostate and urinary tract health.

* This product contains NO wheat, sugar, starch, egg, dairy, yeast, or corn products, animal derivatives, artificial colors or flavors.


For men aged 35 and older, Roex® Advanced Men's Formula is a must!
Man's answer to a worrisome problem - prostate health
Contains 15 different herbs, extracts, vitamins and amino acids that synergistically support prostate health
Cranberry extract, Saw Palmetto, Stinging Nettle root, and essential amino acids, help to maintain healthy urinary function within the body
Roex® Advanced Men's Formula also consists of Zinc, an integral component for a healthy prostate.
 
These are certainly interesting and valuable studies, and should be carefully studied, debated and remembered. However, the nodules which cause BHP first form in the periurethral transition zone--which is precisely where the highest concentrations of aromatase are to be found. Just some food for thought.

And I don't think it is a coincidence that the risk of prostate CA is not significant until the T/E ratio is the lowest (and the lowest level of DHT as well). Just more food for thought.

Also, IMPO use of saw palmetto in individuals who have mid-range DHT concentrations is unwarranted. DHT provides many benefits to us. Contrary to a previous post, saw palmetto IS NOT treatment for impotence--in fact, it is a well-known cause of same. I have had several patients who complained of Erectal Dysfunction. They had no history of BPH, but were taking it merely because "someone told me I should". When I D/C'd it, they returned to happy and healthy sexual function.
 
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