Can Testosterone cause tendon pain?

[husker3in4]

Hello everyone! I'm 43 and have been working out for the past 3 years, as well as play basketball pickup games for 2 hours/day, twice a week. Fist I should say I'm not a body builder, Ive been doing P90x, mainly to lose weight, build some muscle and stay in shape. Also I should say, Im taking prescription testosterone cypionate 200mg/2 weeks so a pretty low dose. Everything was fine until last spring when I decided I would play in a softball league - easy stuff compared to working out and 2 hrs of constant running in basketball right?

Well the whole bit of warming up then sitting around then suddenly sprinting or swinging the bat (not to mention the 100+ swings of batting practice on a regular basis) etc took its toll on my elbows. I'm 99% sure I have distal bicep tendonosis, as the pain is on the top of my elbow, and in the crease. After working out or basketball, it pretty much has a dull pain on both arms. after stretching it out the next day, I can function pain free except when I try to work out. Curls KILL. Pull ups are somewhat painful so I just limit the number to 8 or 10. Pushups are fine, as well as most tricep exercises. Its the motion of a curl that really stresses it so I really only do 20% of the weight I usually work out with.

So its rest that will fix it you say? Last summer I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. I had a total of almost 4 months off from working out, so my tendons had plenty of time to heal. When I started working out again, they were no better. I tried taking glucosamine chondroitin (3k/day) but it hasnt done much. I have read that some suggest glucosamine chondroitin MSM, so maybe that will work? Can anyone suggest a vitamin or legal drug or some other alternative that may put me on the path to recovery?

 

[fancyhuh101]

when it lasts that long even after time off , it sounds like tendonitis , from prolonged trauma to them . testosterone wont nescessairly hurt them more , nor help them , the only issue is with the extra strength and muscle gain , u may actualy hurt them again from trying to push more and the quicker gain of muscle mass not leaving the tendons time to adjust . Deca seems to have properties however that relieve and strengthen tendons temporarily at minimum , not sure about long term . i dont know what to suggest to you man , its kind of hard , u may want to see your doctor , or google it . i saw a video once on this apparent new study that was amazing for repairing and helping tendons and is tyhe best solution at the moment , youtube search a little

 

[TheChosenOne]

Hello everyone! I'm 43 and have been working out for the past 3 years, as well as play basketball pickup games for 2 hours/day, twice a week. Fist I should say I'm not a body builder, Ive been doing P90x, mainly to lose weight, build some muscle and stay in shape. Also I should say, Im taking prescription testosterone cypionate 200mg/2 weeks so a pretty low dose. Everything was fine until last spring when I decided I would play in a softball league - easy stuff compared to working out and 2 hrs of constant running in basketball right?

Well the whole bit of warming up then sitting around then suddenly sprinting or swinging the bat (not to mention the 100+ swings of batting practice on a regular basis) etc took its toll on my elbows. I'm 99% sure I have distal bicep tendonosis, as the pain is on the top of my elbow, and in the crease. After working out or basketball, it pretty much has a dull pain on both arms. after stretching it out the next day, I can function pain free except when I try to work out. Curls KILL. Pull ups are somewhat painful so I just limit the number to 8 or 10. Pushups are fine, as well as most tricep exercises. Its the motion of a curl that really stresses it so I really only do 20% of the weight I usually work out with.

So its rest that will fix it you say? Last summer I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. I had a total of almost 4 months off from working out, so my tendons had plenty of time to heal. When I started working out again, they were no better. I tried taking glucosamine chondroitin (3k/day) but it hasnt done much. I have read that some suggest glucosamine chondroitin MSM, so maybe that will work? Can anyone suggest a vitamin or legal drug or some other alternative that may put me on the path to recovery?

My advice would be, if it hurts, don't do it. Having thyroid cancer is not exactly getting rest. I would assume that during those four months you took your break, that your body was taking a pounding from the cancer. Keep resting it and stretching it. Do light workouts that cause as little discomfort as possible. Throwing a softball can really damage the tendons in that part of your arm. Definitely stay away from that for a little while.

 

[Dirk Diggler99]

As for your question regarding testosterone...I dont know.
But... I have tendonitis in the exact same place as you do - and mine also started from playing baseball (when I was in junior high). It has been a reoccurring issue for me for the past 4 years. I actually just saw a doctor yesterday about it... currently, I am taking Naproxen (aleve) at 440mg twice a day. I also apply voltaren emulgel about 5 times a day. Before I workout, I use Moov massage cream which gives a cooling feeling, then I put on an athletic compression sleeve. After workouts I ice immediately. So far it seems to be improving. I do all my normal exercises except the ones that hurt (preacher curls, hammer curls). Last time I had tendonitis it was so bad I couldnt lift a grocery bag... I iced it after workouts and avoided the painful exercises and it went away after about 3 months.

 

[Dirk Diggler99]

Check this out too:

Tendon Health

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

I found this on another forum, don't know where it originally came from
ironmagazineforums.com/history/topic/24711-1.html

 

[husker3in4]

Wow, thanks for the info! I have some compression sleeves, but they are really only good for warming up. Once I start into my workout, they hurt if I leave them on.

I can do tricep moves and pushups at full strength. Pull ups at about half strength, but curls at about 10% strength. The curls are what kill! With my arms extended and palms up, the pain is right in the middle of the crease of the elbow. Keep in mind tho, that Im not a body builder, and not lifting mass amounts of weight. I do P90x which is a mix of weights and cardio. It still has several curl moves and before the injury I would life as much as I possibly could and continued to get stronger. Now I still do the moves but only with 10lbs dumbbells, its all I can handle without screaming in pain.

I'm pretty positive the injury to both arms occurred from swinging the bat, either the 100+ practice swings, or from sitting long enough to cool down then swinging very hard. For the young guys its probably not a big deal, but for my old bones and tendons, it apparently is! and of course I admit I didn't stretch as much for batting practice or games like I do for workouts.

So do you think that 200mg every 2 weeks can negatively affect my collagen/tendons? I guess I thought that would only be for the guys taking 2 or 3 times that amount! Since I am taking the testosterone as Replacement Therapy (my testosterone was low), would i still need to cycle on/off like the bodybuilders who are taking a much higher dose would?

Interesting read on the Deca, but my doctor has not been real hot on prescribing anything else beyond the test cypionate. Deca is a prescription I assume?

Would taking collagen vitamins help at all?

 

[BoBoy]

If anyone comes up with a good protocol for elbow tendonitis let me know.....I got tennis elbow on the top of my left elbow and golfers elbow on the bottom of my right elbow , so curls and tricep extensions both kill me. Been this way almost a year now ....Thats why I just do compound exercises like bench,squat,deads & rows . I do miss isolated exercises though....Go easy on the Aleve or other ibuprophens , bad for the kidneys (and BP), plus its only a temperary fix , as soon as I go off it the all the inflammation comes right back , if not worse . The glucosamine doesnt seem to do anything at all, been on it for 6 months . I agree time off dont seem to help alot us, I took a whole month off from lifting and saw little to no improvement , so I went back to my routine , I"d rather lift in pain than not lift at all...good luck Husker .....~Bo

 

[Dirk Diggler99]

Wow, thanks for the info! I have some compression sleeves, but they are really only good for warming up. Once I start into my workout, they hurt if I leave them on.

I can do tricep moves and pushups at full strength. Pull ups at about half strength, but curls at about 10% strength. The curls are what kill! With my arms extended and palms up, the pain is right in the middle of the crease of the elbow. Keep in mind tho, that Im not a body builder, and not lifting mass amounts of weight. I do P90x which is a mix of weights and cardio. It still has several curl moves and before the injury I would life as much as I possibly could and continued to get stronger. Now I still do the moves but only with 10lbs dumbbells, its all I can handle without screaming in pain.

I'm pretty positive the injury to both arms occurred from swinging the bat, either the 100+ practice swings, or from sitting long enough to cool down then swinging very hard. For the young guys its probably not a big deal, but for my old bones and tendons, it apparently is! and of course I admit I didn't stretch as much for batting practice or games like I do for workouts.

So do you think that 200mg every 2 weeks can negatively affect my collagen/tendons? I guess I thought that would only be for the guys taking 2 or 3 times that amount! Since I am taking the testosterone as Replacement Therapy (my testosterone was low), would i still need to cycle on/off like the bodybuilders who are taking a much higher dose would?

Interesting read on the Deca, but my doctor has not been real hot on prescribing anything else beyond the test cypionate. Deca is a prescription I assume?

Would taking collagen vitamins help at all?

I wouldn't think that 200mg of test per week (not to mention every 2 weeks) would negatively affect collagen synthesis. I dont know anyhting about collagen vitamins, sorry. Deca is prescription, yes.

 

[Youngblood43]

Wow, thanks for the info! I have some compression sleeves, but they are really only good for warming up. Once I start into my workout, they hurt if I leave them on.

I can do tricep moves and pushups at full strength. Pull ups at about half strength, but curls at about 10% strength. The curls are what kill! With my arms extended and palms up, the pain is right in the middle of the crease of the elbow. Keep in mind tho, that Im not a body builder, and not lifting mass amounts of weight. I do P90x which is a mix of weights and cardio. It still has several curl moves and before the injury I would life as much as I possibly could and continued to get stronger. Now I still do the moves but only with 10lbs dumbbells, its all I can handle without screaming in pain.

I'm pretty positive the injury to both arms occurred from swinging the bat, either the 100+ practice swings, or from sitting long enough to cool down then swinging very hard. For the young guys its probably not a big deal, but for my old bones and tendons, it apparently is! and of course I admit I didn't stretch as much for batting practice or games like I do for workouts.

So do you think that 200mg every 2 weeks can negatively affect my collagen/tendons? I guess I thought that would only be for the guys taking 2 or 3 times that amount! Since I am taking the testosterone as Replacement Therapy (my testosterone was low), would i still need to cycle on/off like the bodybuilders who are taking a much higher dose would?

Interesting read on the Deca, but my doctor has not been real hot on prescribing anything else beyond the test cypionate. Deca is a prescription I assume?

Would taking collagen vitamins help at all?

a TRT dose llike yours will not have a negative impact on collegen synthesis, your fine at 200mg

 

[husker3in4]

I have an update: My last blood results just came back, and my testosterone is at 991, which sounds pretty high and is just outside the normal range for my age group (according to my lab results paper). Its curious because my last 2 tests came back showing my testosterone around 450 and I didnt change the dose. The only thing I can think of, is maybe my thyroid being cancerous before affected my testosterone, and now with my thyroid gone and now being on synthroid, my thyroid levels are back to normal and maybe I dont really need the testosterone shots? Also, the two other things that they tested for: my luteinizing hormone is at .3 and FSH is .7, both which show low on my report.

Could my test being that high and/or the other two (LH and FSH) being low cause my bicep tendons to heal slowly (or not at all)

 

[husker3in4]

Bump...

I realize I'm not on the same level as most of you (testosterone or training wise) but do you think I would benefit from coming off my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for a few weeks and supplement with some sort of over the counter PCT?

Anyone tried collagen supps to help with tendons?