Clomid & Nolva are BOTH required for a better chance at recovery
- Thread starter Austinite
- Start date
Austinite
Moderator
The two serms mentioned are more than enough. It wouldnt hurt to add some "feel good" supplements should the serms cause some issues. But anything that is touted to "Increase T" or bring you back that is OTC is certainly a waste.
sadpanda
New member
Could you please recommend me some feel good supplements
i heard 5 htp and b6 together are good as b6 helps convert trp into seretonin
anything else you would recommend?
Austinite
Moderator
At the end of this post...
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...s-top-3-essential-cycle-supplementations.html
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...s-top-3-essential-cycle-supplementations.html
freakmentality
New member
Glad I read this before I started my PCT. It led me to utilize both and it's going pretty well. Only negative is I'm getting bad acne on my chest and back
snowpatrol123
New member
Austinite, is your recommended dosing for clomid & nolva the same as listed in the sticky?
Austinite
Moderator
Depends on the cycle. Generally...
Clomiphene @ 75/50/50/50
Tamoxifen @ 40/20/20/20
You can add an additional 2 weeks of Tamoxifen at 20mg daily if your cycle consisted of HPTA demolishing steroids such as Nandrolone.
Shredchem
New member
I've read that just 50mg of clomid and 20mg nolva is all you need before, is there any proof or studies that show greater doses improve results?
DreDay187
Beast666 FanClub Pres
Did you see the proof or studies to back what you read?
The reasons for the higher doses the first week is not because higher doses are more effective, it's to elevate serum levels of the compounds quickly and safely.
Austinite
Moderator
What have you read? Need details...
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
I disagree. There are a couple of studies floating around showing that anything more than 49mg of Clomid does not support increased production.
On top of that why would you do a loading stage with something like clomid that can have potentially permanent side effects at those dosages.
And there is absolutely no proof anywhere on the planet that Nolva helps you recover faster in conjunction with clomid, absolutely 0. so I am hoping to see some links here...
On top of that why would you do a loading stage with something like clomid that can have potentially permanent side effects at those dosages.
And there is absolutely no proof anywhere on the planet that Nolva helps you recover faster in conjunction with clomid, absolutely 0. so I am hoping to see some links here...
Austinite
Moderator
Permanent side effects could present themselves with any serm, at any impactful dose. Your argument is fruitless unless you can prove otherwise. There are more than a couple of studies about <50mg doses, and there are plenty that say otherwise.
You need proof? Look at the science of the compounds and how they interact with your body. Pretty simple really. The great thing about the human mind is that you can make conclusions from 100's upon 100's of studies. We don't always need a study for this very specific scenario.
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
You can also make conclusions from 100's and 100's of patient data. I have done so and honestly have came to the conclusion more than 25mg is not necessary.
Honestly SERM's don't even make that big of a difference, HCG is where you make it or break it. Dose, duration and labs while on the HCG. On top of IGF-1 support, on top of maximizing endogenous GH secretion. You guys act like this is my first rodeo nope def not
Honestly SERM's don't even make that big of a difference, HCG is where you make it or break it. Dose, duration and labs while on the HCG. On top of IGF-1 support, on top of maximizing endogenous GH secretion. You guys act like this is my first rodeo nope def not
Austinite
Moderator
You're thinking of restarting a young hypogonadal male, which obviously is where you got these studies, trust me, I've read most of them, if not all...
You cannot compare 25mg 3 times weekly for 3 to 4 months and assume that is OK for someone who demolished their HPTA in such a short span. Apples and oranges.
Not sure what your comment about "First Rodeo" is, but you've said what you had to say, and I disagree wholeheartedly. We can agree on that.
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
I am not here to argue, I am just saying that the high dosages are not warranted in any case. Study or no study, just speaking from experience. 25mg 3x per week won't cut it either.
The honest truth like I said is that SERM's do not mean much at all, the important part is re sensitizing the leydig cells. Without confirmation of this the latter is worthless.
The honest truth like I said is that SERM's do not mean much at all, the important part is re sensitizing the leydig cells. Without confirmation of this the latter is worthless.
Austinite
Moderator
Yeah I heard you, brother. What you consider high doses are not high. We disagree on everything, let's leave it at that. Resensitizing leydig cells is not needed if you run hCG on cycle. Period. You want people to blast a suppressive compound while they're attempting recovery, increase the risk of elevated intratesticular E2, which cannot be managed with an AI... No thanks.
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THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
actually Letro is very well known to penetrate dense lipid cells, so that would do it.
I don't know if you have ever seen constant labs, like once a week, throughout the process but it tells me you HAVE to take HCG without test to get the boyz going.
Besides if you don't your not gonna get the same benefits at the pituitary. I have seen it done both ways, many many times, with constant lab work throughout, and long term HCG is the way to go.
I don't know if you have ever seen constant labs, like once a week, throughout the process but it tells me you HAVE to take HCG without test to get the boyz going.
Besides if you don't your not gonna get the same benefits at the pituitary. I have seen it done both ways, many many times, with constant lab work throughout, and long term HCG is the way to go.
DrHouse
New member
Prescription dosage for restart protocol for Clomid is 50 mg EOD or 25mg daily for 3 months. Not saying this is the appropriate scenario when performing a PCT. I think basically what is being said is that 50mg daily is appropriate for a quicker recovery.
It's all opinions unless you have conducted the study yourself. Even clinical trials can be skewed and altered to produce desired conclusion.
It's all opinions unless you have conducted the study yourself. Even clinical trials can be skewed and altered to produce desired conclusion.
