Clomid & Nolva are BOTH required for a better chance at recovery

[Austinite]

actually Letro is very well known to penetrate dense lipid cells, so that would do it.

I don't know if you have ever seen constant labs, like once a week, throughout the process but it tells me you HAVE to take HCG without test to get the boyz going.

Besides if you don't your not gonna get the same benefits at the pituitary. I have seen it done both ways, many many times, with constant lab work throughout, and long term HCG is the way to go.

Lol, I wonder where you heard about Letrozole........... hmmm. - Anyway, Letrozole will also deplete E2 completely by the time it impacts intra E2.

When hCG is used on cycle, it is enough to maintain stimulation of leydig cells. Once you come off, leydig cells do not desensitize. It is only in the case of resensitizing that you need to avoid testosterone. But on cycle, you're maintaining, not resensitizing.

hCG on cycle is your seatbelt. Why would you put your seatbelt on after you crash? Doesn't make any sense to me honestly. That's basically what blasting HCG post cycle is, putting a seatbelt on after the damage is done, instead of preventative measures.

I have seen it myself. Blasting is problematic more often than not. And I've observed more panels that I care to admit. Preventative measure is key, and that's my ideology.

 

[Austinite]

Prescription dosage for restart protocol for Clomid is 50 mg EOD or 25mg daily for 3 months. Not saying this is the appropriate scenario when performing a PCT. I think basically what is being said is that 50mg daily is appropriate for a quicker recovery.

It's all opinions unless you have conducted the study yourself. Even clinical trials can be skewed and altered to produce desired conclusion.

Again, restarts are for hypogonadal young males that did not suppress their HPTA in a matter of weeks, or days in some cases. Its not the same thing. we are not all young, we are not all using testosterone replacement therapy doses and our cycles are considerably heavy.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I don't have time to keep reading this, you have totally taken my words out of context, as usual.

No one said to use 50mg EOD and the idea that it is the "script" dosage is ludicrous, a doc can write it for the dosage he wants, all that matters is what the pharmacy is allowed to dispense, but hey what do I know.

and to Austin, no one said not to run HCG concomitant with your T injects, the point is the dosage needs to be increased quite a bit after discontinuing T injects to provide OPTIMAL stimulation.

The proof is in the puddin, and I have seen a lot of it, not just in "studies" but in real world application with real lab results.

I am not going to continue to argue, I do not need to, I have seen for myself, many many times.

 

[Austinite]

I don't have time to keep reading this, you have totally taken my words out of context, as usual.

No one said to use 50mg EOD and the idea that it is the "script" dosage is ludicrous, a doc can write it for the dosage he wants, all that matters is what the pharmacy is allowed to dispense, but hey what do I know.

and to Austin, no one said not to run HCG concomitant with your T injects, the point is the dosage needs to be increased quite a bit after discontinuing T injects to provide OPTIMAL stimulation.

The proof is in the puddin, and I have seen a lot of it, not just in "studies" but in real world application with real lab results.

I am not going to continue to argue, I do not need to, I have seen for myself, many many times.

As usual? I've never, not once conversed with you before.

And you're right, no need to argue. Proof is in the pudding and I know. I know how these compounds work, literally with tremendous detail.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

TT will level in 300's 90% of the time after using HCG on T injects, if thats optimal then your right.

The last guy who I watched do an HPTA Normalization had TT levels of 800 6 weeks after stopping everything, he was in his 40's but again, what do I know.

 

[Austinite]

TT will level in 300's 90% of the time after using HCG on T injects, if thats optimal then your right.

The last guy who I watched do an HPTA Normalization had TT levels of 800 6 weeks after stopping everything, he was in his 40's but again, what do I know.

lol, now you're making random statements. Seriously... let the 80's go brother, we know much more today. Stay current...

We're not getting anywhere, so just let it go brother. You and I will never agree. Stay in your thread and continue to advise folks, they can make informed decisions based on what they read.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

My rep speaks for itself always has.

 

[Austinite]

My rep speaks for itself always has.

Stay off this thread. I don't agree with what you spout, you don't see me flooding your thread. I could go in there and decipher every wrong thing you pitched, but it's unlike me. I prefer to educate properly, away from nonsense.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

ok yes sir, I will stay out of thread, even though I stand by everything I said.

 

[Austinite]

ok yes sir, I will stay out of thread, even though I stand by everything I said.

Good.

 

[illumin4tion]

And now I know why.

 

[Rida5d]

i was waiting for page 2 from 7 months.

 

[testingsleeping]

Good.

i finished my first cycle of test prop 10 weeks and followed by just 100/50/50/50 clomid, i did recover good and my strength even increased during pct and i was happy but i had high estrogen post pct when i did bloodwork so i had to take v low dose of adex for like 5days.
do you think nolvadex with the clomid could help prevent that next time i run a cycle ?

 

[copaseet]

There are 2 major components involved in recovery. Testosterone production and Spermatogenesis.

LH and FSH are both required for the equation. LH is produced by the pituitary and stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. Once testosterone is in production it works alongside FSH and stimulates sertoli cells to produce sperm. Sperm production is hindered if either of these are unhealthy. They both work in synergy. You need BOTH to be at healthy levels. Nolvadex is dominant in LH promotion and Clomid is dominant in promoting FSH.

clomid has multiple effects. It's an anti-estrogen, so it obviously decreases the estrogenic effects in your body by stimulating the Hypothalamus back to life and sending gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) to your pituitary, so that LH/FSH can be secreted.

Nolva boosts the effects of clomid because it put clomid into "competition" mode where they both fight for a receptors to bind to. This competitiveness will only occur with the presence of BOTH nolva/clomid, and will inevitably resolve the issue of excess estrogen in the Hypothalamus. This will trigger both LH and FSH to crank UP, as the high estrogen in this cluster is suppressive. This entire scenario is not as effective with only one drug.

Furthermore varying the compounds; Since we know both stimulate LH, what most don't know is that the act is different. clomid boosts the amplitude of LH serum, but has no effect on the frequency. Nolvadex is the complete opposite in that area, where it boosts the actual frequency of LH and has no effect on its amplitude.

You're probably assuming they're identical and overpowering... clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Nolva is also mixed, however.... it is a pure antagonist in the E receptor in breast tissue. There is a reason that clomid is not recommended for gynecomastia reversal, but Nolva is.

Can you recover with just Nolvadex, or just clomid? Well, anything is possible. But why would you take that risk if the combination gives you a much better chance? To save a few bucks and risk your health? clomid when coupled with Nolvadex is clearly the safer choice over using either compound individually.

- What sides have you experienced using both Nolva & Clomid? as opposed to one or the other solo?

 

[copaseet]

TT will level in 300's 90% of the time after using HCG on T injects, if thats optimal then your right.

The last guy who I watched do an HPTA Normalization had TT levels of 800 6 weeks after stopping everything, he was in his 40's but again, what do I know.

- this is with HCG on cycle and blast post, with no SERM PCT?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

- this is with HCG on cycle and blast post, with no SERM PCT?

Well hard to call it a PCT when someone is coming off HRT but something like that. But yes SERM's were used. It is not nearly about what you use as it is when you use it, kind of like food

 

[lifter85]

So if torem is a newer better version off nolva, and the bread and butter is clomid and nolva. Wouldn't clomid and torem be great? I'm not finding much where people are using clomid and torem together?

 

[jkastil223]

back to the lexapro question, i read that same article and got worried. I have talked to two pharmacists in different companies and both of their systems says that no interaction exists, they both said i should be fine. did you end up running the nolva, any issues?

 

[addy]

actually Letro is very well known to penetrate dense lipid cells, so that would do it.

I don't know if you have ever seen constant labs, like once a week, throughout the process but it tells me you HAVE to take HCG without test to get the boyz going.

Besides if you don't your not gonna get the same benefits at the pituitary. I have seen it done both ways, many many times, with constant lab work throughout, and long term HCG is the way to go.

this is a case where the guy used hcg but it dint work for him:-
Jeffrey Dach MD Bio-Identical Hormone Blog: Clomid For Men With Low Testosterone by Jeffrey Dach MD

 

[densone]

really good info thanks!