Concerned about some side effects I'm having

[Mr. Vig]

Fairly new guy to gear, but not really new to the gym. Long time lurker here.


Here is what I'm taking:
1cc sus biw
1 1/2cc deca qw
4U Hgh qod (up until three weeks ago I was on 4iu daily 5 on 2 off.)
50mg Exemestane qd

The sus, deca and Exemestane have been running for three weeks.

The GH I've been taking for 4.5 months.

I have a trainer that set all this up for me and to cut to the bullshit and be honest, I'm asking questions here to keep from bothering the guy so much. His credentials are great and I trust him though.

Here is what i've got going on:

Lower back pump when i'm in the gym thats so bad I can hardly stand up. I've been stretching and working abs at advice of my trainer but its just not getting any better.

Hands feet and face are very puffy and swollen. Noticable to the point to where everyone asks what's up. Shoes are tight as hell. Watch won't even go over my hand.

I've never been much of a snorer, but for past 3 wks my gf has had to move to another room she said i'm snoring so loud u can hear it in next room with tv on.

I've gotten hemoroids like a crazy. Never even had them before.

I have some joint pain mainly in my knees, but I feel like that's from really hitting squats extra hard and going ass to grass, which i wasn't really used to doing before.

I've gotten much stronger and my weight has gone from 178 to about 190.

I'm eating like a horse, and trying to get anywhere from 2500 to 3000 calories per day.

I'm probably gonna get bashed for posting something like this, but perhaps somebody can read it and give me some advice or some sorta piece of mind that I'm not totally fucking up.

 

[RJ]

no bashing here. good info at least.

couple questions.

1. Whats the mg/ml on the compounds?
2. Why are you taking so much Exemestane?
3. Were you having the swelling with the GH before you switched to every other day dosing? Also, what time of the day are you taking it?
4. How much water are you drinking every day?
5. Whats your diet like?
6. Where is your dopamine agonist?

 

[Mr. Vig]

no bashing here. good info at least.

couple questions.

1. Whats the mg/ml on the compounds?
2. Why are you taking so much Exemestane?
3. Were you having the swelling with the GH before you switched to every other day dosing? Also, what time of the day are you taking it?
4. How much water are you drinking every day?
5. Whats your diet like?
6. Where is your dopamine agonist?

1. the sus is 250mg/ml, the deca is 300mg/ml

2. I was taking half that amount of aromasin, but i told my guy what was up and he said to double it to be safe.

3. The swelling only started 3 wks ago with the test and deca. I switched to every other day on the gh because my guy said it could be the reson for some of my joint pain. I'm not taking it any particular set time in the day. should i?

4. interesting you bring the water up. that was what my guy said. I am really working to drink a lot of water, but only about a gallon a day i guess. I went and had two massages from different therapists and they both said my muscles "felt" dehydrated. I can't imagine drinking anymore. I'm getting up to take a piss about 5 times a night now with a major piss boner. lol

5. My diet for past three weeks has been like this: meal 1 7am monster bowl of granoloa cereal, with whole milk

gym

meal 2 4 eggs, with cheese grits.

protein shake, (amplified wheybolic extreme 60) whole milk, banana, egg, 4 big ass scoops of peanut butter.

meal 3. beef tips and rice, some kind of beans and ususally potatoes or another carb.

meal 4, something simular to meal 3, or maybe tuna (big can with hotsauce, soy and mustard)

before bed, same shake as above.

6. this could be a problem because i don't know what dopamine agonist is.

thanks for taking time to respond man.

 

[Kane_Red_Machine]

one of the guy i'm forming got almost same symptoms than you describe.

he tought it was a bad reaction about HGH for his hands and feet. and the Sustanon (sust) for the face.

he got a surgery about the hemoroids.

it was almost the same cycle to.

ther's multiple roots for your sides if you want my opinion.

 

[RJ]

1. the sus is 250mg/ml, the deca is 300mg/mlalthough you can take Deca once a week based on the half life, i would cut it in half and take it twice a week. The Sustanon (sust) has short esters in it, and although they aren't much in terms of mg/ml, they can fuck your blood serum levels. Go to at least EOD. you may have to do some math, but you're a smart guy.

2. I was taking half that amount of aromasin, but i told my guy what was up and he said to double it to be safe.Nothing against your "trainer", but if this is his answer to your bloating he is a fucking retard and needs to be punched directly in the throat and then have his balls removed for fear of reproducing another idiot like him

3. The swelling only started 3 wks ago with the test and deca. I switched to every other day on the gh because my guy said it could be the reson for some of my joint pain. I'm not taking it any particular set time in the day. should i? Depending on what your goals are, i would switch back to ED dosing. But even if you stay with EOD dosing, you should do it the same time each day. I like first thing in the AM as your GH output is most depleted IMO. You'll get conflicting vies on when, but it needs to stay consistent whatever time you decide

4. interesting you bring the water up. that was what my guy said. I am really working to drink a lot of water, but only about a gallon a day i guess. I went and had two massages from different therapists and they both said my muscles "felt" dehydrated. I can't imagine drinking anymore. I'm getting up to take a piss about 5 times a night now with a major piss boner. lolGet you a gallon jug and every morning fill it up. You should be drinking 1-1.5 of these a day. The jug helps cause you can gauge how much you are driking so you aren't trying to catch up in the evening and pissing every ten minutes when you should be sleeping.

5. My diet for past three weeks has been like this: meal 1 7am monster bowl of granoloa cereal, with whole milk

gym

meal 2 4 eggs, with cheese grits.

protein shake, (amplified wheybolic extreme 60) whole milk, banana, egg, 4 big ass scoops of peanut butter.

meal 3. beef tips and rice, some kind of beans and ususally potatoes or another carb.

meal 4, something simular to meal 3, or maybe tuna (big can with hotsauce, soy and mustard)

before bed, same shake as above.again, not sure what your goals are, but that diet sucks. get over to the diet section and have 3J help you put something together based on your needs/goals. he has a thread over there at the top of the page

6. this could be a problem because i don't know what dopamine agonist is.19nors (deca and Tren) cause prolactin based side effects as test causes estrogen based side effects. This is why we tell people test only for a first cycle so if you do get side effects you know what is causing it. Either way, prolactin based sides can cause similiar sides as too much estrogen can, so its important to have a dopamine agonist on hand to combat those. Read up on Prami, Dostinex and Bromocriptine

thanks for taking time to respond man.

see red above. how about some stats also.

height, weight,age, BF% and cycle history

 

[Mr. Vig]

500mg/wk of Test

450mg/wk of EQ

Anavar,(50mg) per day,

this was my first cycle last year.

the current one is my second.

I'm 37, 5foot 10 190 lbs. Last time i had it checked bf was 16%, but i bet its come up since then because i've been trying to eat everything in site.

 

[Mr. Vig]

Read up on Prami, Dostinex and Bromocriptine


I've read a little on these. From what i could tell they were for sexual side effects which I haven't really had any yet. Other than lack of sex from loud snoring and looking like a swollen headed douche bag.

Would it hurt me to get on prami and see if it helps anything? I sorta like the sound of what it does anyway.

 

[Italiano SPO]

Read up on Prami, Dostinex and Bromocriptine


I've read a little on these. From what i could tell they were for sexual side effects which I haven't really had any yet. Other than lack of sex from loud snoring and looking like a swollen headed douche bag.

Would it hurt me to get on prami and see if it helps anything? I sorta like the sound of what it does anyway.

I like Pramipexole personally and it does have positive sexual effects for me and also good with sleep. Everyone has a different experience so I say give it a try.

 

[Italiano SPO]

1. the sus is 250mg/ml, the deca is 300mg/ml

2. I was taking half that amount of aromasin, but i told my guy what was up and he said to double it to be safe.3. The swelling only started 3 wks ago with the test and deca. I switched to every other day on the gh because my guy said it could be the reson for some of my joint pain. I'm not taking it any particular set time in the day. should i?

4. interesting you bring the water up. that was what my guy said. I am really working to drink a lot of water, but only about a gallon a day i guess. I went and had two massages from different therapists and they both said my muscles "felt" dehydrated. I can't imagine drinking anymore. I'm getting up to take a piss about 5 times a night now with a major piss boner. lol

5. My diet for past three weeks has been like this: meal 1 7am monster bowl of granoloa cereal, with whole milk

gym

meal 2 4 eggs, with cheese grits.

protein shake, (amplified wheybolic extreme 60) whole milk, banana, egg, 4 big ass scoops of peanut butter.

meal 3. beef tips and rice, some kind of beans and ususally potatoes or another carb.

meal 4, something simular to meal 3, or maybe tuna (big can with hotsauce, soy and mustard)

before bed, same shake as above.

6. this could be a problem because i don't know what dopamine agonist is.

thanks for taking time to respond man.

I have to agree with RJH on everything but especially on number 2. I have never heard of such a thing. I don't know of anyone who takes more than 25mg ED of Aromasin and most would tell you if you gotta go higher than that, then your next move would be to Letrozole. Also, I had hemorroids years ago and started making sure I was eating enough fiber and they disappeared. Fiber is no joke and you'd be surprised how much increasing fiber will make a difference. It completely made my hemorroids go away. I keep my fiber intake at least 25g daily....usually more. Don't laugh but a good quick way is Metamucil and steaming broccoli at least once a day. Works wonders dude.

 

[liftsiron]

Personally what I would do is cut my sodium intake i.e. soy, mustard sauce etc. Drink at least 6 liters of water daily. Switch to arimidex as my Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Get my body fat checked, some times on cycle we are to concerned with body weight and not lean muscular bwt. Get some prep H for the ass issues. B6 200mgs twice per day should be all that you need to control deca sides.

 

[RJ]

Personally what I would do is cut my sodium intake i.e. soy, mustard sauce etc. Drink at least 6 liters of water daily. Switch to arimidex as my Aromatase inhibitor (AI). Get my body fat checked, some times on cycle we are to concerned with body weight and not lean muscular bwt. Get some prep H for the ass issues. B6 200mgs twice per day should be all that you need to control deca sides.

god damn LI where the fuck did you come from? lol

good to see you back brother.

Mr. Vig, 19nors do more than just effect you sexually. Prolactin based gyno (lactating nipples), bloating, etc can all be caused by prolactin based sides.

 

[liftsiron]

god damn LI where the fuck did you come from? lol

good to see you back brother.

Mr. Vig, 19nors do more than just effect you sexually. Prolactin based gyno (lactating nipples), bloating, etc can all be caused by prolactin based sides.

It's been to long my friend.

 

[Mr. Vig]

Fairly new guy to gear, but not really new to the gym. Long time lurker here.


Here is what I'm taking:
1cc sus biw
1 1/2cc deca qw
4U Hgh qod (up until three weeks ago I was on 4iu daily 5 on 2 off.)
50mg Exemestane qd

The sus, deca and Exemestane have been running for three weeks.

The GH I've been taking for 4.5 months.

I have a trainer that set all this up for me and to cut to the bullshit and be honest, I'm asking questions here to keep from bothering the guy so much. His credentials are great and I trust him though.

Here is what i've got going on:

Lower back pump when i'm in the gym thats so bad I can hardly stand up. I've been stretching and working abs at advice of my trainer but its just not getting any better.

Hands feet and face are very puffy and swollen. Noticable to the point to where everyone asks what's up. Shoes are tight as hell. Watch won't even go over my hand.

I've never been much of a snorer, but for past 3 wks my gf has had to move to another room she said i'm snoring so loud u can hear it in next room with tv on.

I've gotten hemoroids like a crazy. Never even had them before.

I have some joint pain mainly in my knees, but I feel like that's from really hitting squats extra hard and going ass to grass, which i wasn't really used to doing before.

I've gotten much stronger and my weight has gone from 178 to about 190.

I'm eating like a horse, and trying to get anywhere from 2500 to 3000 calories per day.

I'm probably gonna get bashed for posting something like this, but perhaps somebody can read it and give me some advice or some sorta piece of mind that I'm not totally fucking up.

Ok I've made some changes but still feeling like things aren't right.

1. I've up'd my water intake. I'm getting a gallon plus everyday now.

2. I've cut my sodium to try and decrease the puffyness and swelling.

3. I've went to 2iu gh 5 on 2 off with a steady inject time every day of 10am.

4. I'm stetching my back and hammys twice a day. Plus i'm going and having them stretched twice a week by a lmt.

I can't say that anything has gotten better. My hands and face are still swollen like a little fat kid. I can only wear certain shoes.

I can live with the puffy ness but when im in the gym i get a lower left back pump that is so bad i literally have to lay down. I mean it doubles me over. I feel like a total pussy, but I have to do something about it or i'm gonna go crazy.

 

[Natehayes]

I find taurine helps a lot with the lower back pumps.

 

[nate212]

Man, that sounds god awful!

I dont mean to be a dick but with all those side effects whats the fucking point?

How is your heart? Blood pressure? any liver disease?

Liver problems->portal hypertension->hemorroids

Low heart ejection fraction -> increased back pressure in venous system -> peripheral edema

the high blood pressure related to all of the above.

I'm not saying these are issues with you but at 37 it is something I would just rule out. Like Kane said, lots could be causing these symptoms.

Personally, I would say FUCK THIS and try something milder. thats me though.

Your 5'10 and 190 holding alot of fluid so your not real big. Why the complicated cycle? It seams to me like you could still make some good lean progression with something real simple and basic.

 

[Die$eL~Man]

are you overwieght ? lower back pumps usually occur when overwieght ... also train your lower lumbar area with hyper extentions

 

[Mr. Vig]

Man, that sounds god awful!

I dont mean to be a dick but with all those side effects whats the fucking point?

How is your heart? Blood pressure? any liver disease?

Liver problems->portal hypertension->hemorroids

Low heart ejection fraction -> increased back pressure in venous system -> peripheral edema

the high blood pressure related to all of the above.

I'm not saying these are issues with you but at 37 it is something I would just rule out. Like Kane said, lots could be causing these symptoms.

Personally, I would say FUCK THIS and try something milder. thats me though.

Your 5'10 and 190 holding alot of fluid so your not real big. Why the complicated cycle? It seams to me like you could still make some good lean progression with something real simple and basic.

My health, (heart, liver blood pressure) is all great. At least it was checked before cycle and all great.

As far as why the complicated cycle, thats a good question. I read what people say online, and try and do my on research. I start working with a guy i trust already. Not some random guy of the web, and this is what he tells me to do. As far as I know its the right thing. I know he's not fucking with me maybe its his right thing and not mine.

You are right, everyday (especially after squats and deads) I want to say fuck this. I keep reading people saying "lower back pumps are just part of it" "deal with it" and telling myself to bear it and quit being a twat.

Hell, I am an active person too, I like playing basketball, coaching kids baseball. I can hardly even do any of this stuff now.

What would you recommend changing on my cycle to get me to feeling normal or close to it?

My guy told me he stays on cycle year round, because he feels like he is 17 (he's low 40's). I feel like I'm 70, and I'm not exaggerating. Shit i bet there are 70 year olds that get out of bed easier than i do.

 

[nate212]

^^^^ Thats good to hear about the medical work-up.

Did you say your blood pressure was ok? With what you are describing it sounds like you are having some serious fluid shift issues going on with intravascular vs interstitial fluid balance being out of wack.

I'm 34 been lifting since I was 15. I like to feel good too and do other stuff. If I was having the issues you are with the cycle I would stop, do a post cycle, get my hormone levels checked after the post cycle and then work out a new game plan. I would also go and see my primary doctor again and get things looked at just for good measure.

For someone not doing this for a living those issues are just not worth it man.

I would also really clean up the diet. An 18 year old can get away with what you eat but a 37 year old. Personally, I'm a big fan of lots of dark vegetables, dark fruit, fish oil, and generally unprocessed stuff.

Additionally, hemorroids respond well to high riber diets. The less you have to push the better with those bastards.

I am new to the chemicals so will refrain from saying anything specific about that. But I would stop and regroup.

The information I have read by someone like RJ013 whatever it is, Kane, The-det-oak sounds good. I would go with what they say on the specifics of the cycle if you keep doing that.

Hope it gets better man.


Did you not like the first cycle you did? test and oxandrolone right. poor results? That sounds like a reasonable cycle to me.

 

[Mr. Vig]

^^^^ Thats good to hear about the medical work-up.

Did you say your blood pressure was ok? With what you are describing it sounds like you are having some serious fluid shift issues going on with intravascular vs interstitial fluid balance being out of wack.

I'm 34 been lifting since I was 15. I like to feel good too and do other stuff. If I was having the issues you are with the cycle I would stop, do a post cycle, get my hormone levels checked after the post cycle and then work out a new game plan. I would also go and see my primary doctor again and get things looked at just for good measure.

For someone not doing this for a living those issues are just not worth it man.

I would also really clean up the diet. An 18 year old can get away with what you eat but a 37 year old. Personally, I'm a big fan of lots of dark vegetables, dark fruit, fish oil, and generally unprocessed stuff.

Additionally, hemorroids respond well to high riber diets. The less you have to push the better with those bastards.

I am new to the chemicals so will refrain from saying anything specific about that. But I would stop and regroup.

The information I have read by someone like RJ013 whatever it is, Kane, The-det-oak sounds good. I would go with what they say on the specifics of the cycle if you keep doing that.

Hope it gets better man.


Did you not like the first cycle you did? test and oxandrolone right. poor results? That sounds like a reasonable cycle to me.

Man I appreciate the advice. I'm slowly learning who on here to listen to and who know's what's up.

I think i remember reading you're the vegetarian right?

I totally hear what you are saying about the diet too. I did not realize how important of a role diet played until doing research.

Diet is one thing I am working hard to improve. I now appreciate its importance.

I'll see what some others say about chemicals and take it from there.

First cycle was ok. Had same issue with back pump. Not the other issues. I had to stop cycle mid way thru and do pct, (long story) bc i had to do unexpected traveling.

 

[nate212]

^^ Yea I'm a non gay non communist vegetarian. Been that way all my life. There certainly are some good health benefits to that. You just have to be willing to eat a variety of stuff.

How far into the first cycle were you when you had to jump ship?