cycle advice

[frank.tb]

Stats:

Height 5'10"
Weight 188lb
Bf% 10.5%
Age:21 in about 2 months

I know I'll get some comments about age but I've heard lots of different things concerning how old you need to be to start.
Planning my first real cycle in October so I'll be 21 then. I have one worthless var cycle under my belt. Only 6 weeks...lack of knowledge...

Cycle will be:
Primo 500mg pw...pin every Mon andThursday
Sust 200mg pw just as test maintenance...pin every Monday and Thursday as well
Since first cycle plan on just doing an 8 to 12 week cycle...chose primobecause I like the idea of slow steady gains without any water retention...from what I've seen the slower you gain the longer you can hold on to it

Pct (need some.help)
Starting 2 weeks after last pin
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20

Not sure if I need Adex considering primo does not convert and my Aust dosage is relatively.low.

I eat 6 to 7 times a day...very clean diet...and the primo I have is legitimate. From a very reliable source

Comments please...

 

[Rumpy]

When you're 25, start with a test only cycle. Go single ester like E or C, not Sustanon (sust). Run 500mg per week for 12 weeks minimum. You'll need an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and I recommend HCG

The stickies are there for a reason. Many many years of trial and error, and great wisdom have gone I to them. Why does every kid think after reading shit on the internet for 1/2 hour, they have figured out a better way.

Read the stickies, use the search bar at the top of the page, and wait until your body is ready, (21 ain't ready)

 

[palmers]

Stats:

Height 5'10"
Weight 188lb
Bf% 10.5%
Age:21 in about 2 months

I know I'll get some comments about age but I've heard lots of different things concerning how old you need to be to start.
Planning my first real cycle in October so I'll be 21 then. I have one worthless var cycle under my belt. Only 6 weeks...lack of knowledge...
Cycle will be:
Primo 500mg pw...pin every Mon andThursday
Sust 200mg pw just as test maintenance...pin every Monday and Thursday as well
Since first cycle plan on just doing an 8 to 12 week cycle...chose primobecause I like the idea of slow steady gains without any water retention...from what I've seen the slower you gain the longer you can hold on to it

Pct (need some.help)
Starting 2 weeks after last pin
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20

Not sure if I need Adex considering primo does not convert and my Aust dosage is relatively.low.

I eat 6 to 7 times a day...very clean diet...and the primo I have is legitimate. From a very reliable source

Comments please...

sounds like you still have a lack of knowledget to me

 

[MentzerIsGOD]

and wait until your body is ready, (21 ain't ready)

im sorry but heres a fun fact for you...
many people choose to use steroids for many reasons not only ones you belive in...

its nice that you give the right advice to people, but what bothers me is that in this one morning i have seen like 5 threads with same stuff about the age so its not and advice anymore, its a spam.

do you really belive that all the people on pro sports waited till 25?
google Aleksej Lesukov. The dude is goin for Mr.O stage, hes 21-23(i have lost count). Could you email him your advice on waiting with your pictures and accomplishments in bodybuilding, so he knows you are giving him the best advice possible?

Could you also email Jay Cutler and explain to him that steroids before the age of 25 has ruined his life now?

ffs people, i know its the BEST to wait as long as possible, but just it doesnt work that way in MOST and i really mean - THE MOST reasons why people turn to steroids

 

[Austinite]

im sorry but heres a fun fact for you...
many people choose to use steroids for many reasons not only ones you belive in...

its nice that you give the right advice to people, but what bothers me is that in this one morning i have seen like 5 threads with same stuff about the age so its not and advice anymore, its a spam.

do you really belive that all the people on pro sports waited till 25?
google Aleksej Lesukov. The dude is goin for Mr.O stage, hes 21-23(i have lost count). Could you email him your advice on waiting with your pictures and accomplishments in bodybuilding, so he knows you are giving him the best advice possible?

Could you also email Jay Cutler and explain to him that steroids before the age of 25 has ruined his life now?

ffs people, i know its the BEST to wait as long as possible, but just it doesnt work that way in MOST and i really mean - THE MOST reasons why people turn to steroids

Most folks under the age of 24/25 have an epiphyseal plate.

 

[MentzerIsGOD]

Most folks under the age of 24/25 have an epiphyseal plate.

does that rly change anything for most people?

i mean, before people spam that age thing they should understand, that Arnold won Mr.Universe at age of 20 and Mr.O at age of 23...
there are video on youtube with Cutler and Warren at 17-18 or smth.

asking people to wait till 25 is ok, but no need to spam every thread on cycle advices, cause we all do know, that 90% of people who went for their dreams sure as hell didnt wait for some magic number.
that could be the smartest thing to do, but then again...is steroids and bodybuilding a choice for health freaks?

i mean, cmon - we're all bodybuilders here and we all know whats happening and we all know this and other sports...
"wait till you are 25" - the most lame advice for someone who has chosen a sport thats dominated by people who have been on drugs since the age of 15.

steroids are bad, mkay... if you still wanna do them, age thing doesnt matter that much.

 

[Austinite]

does that rly change anything for most people?

i mean, before people spam that age thing they should understand, that Arnold won Mr.Universe at age of 20 and Mr.O at age of 23...
there are video on youtube with Cutler and Warren at 17-18 or smth.

asking people to wait till 25 is ok, but no need to spam every thread on cycle advices, cause we all do know, that 90% of people who went for their dreams sure as hell didnt wait for some magic number.
that could be the smartest thing to do, but then again...is steroids and bodybuilding a choice for health freaks?

i mean, cmon - we're all bodybuilders here and we all know whats happening and we all know this and other sports...
"wait till you are 25" - the most lame advice for someone who has chosen a sport thats dominated by people who have been on drugs since the age of 15.

steroids are bad, mkay... if you still wanna do them, age thing doesnt matter that much.

Treba da studira više. Samo zato što u Bosni ljudi ne dobiti krvi da bude sigurno, ne zna***269;i da treba da u***269;e ljude na pogrešne stvari.

 

[frank.tb]

Sorry Rumpy but I haven't been reading shit for half an hour...been looking into this for a good while now...that's why I asked the question because the more you read the more you find new evidence, new ideas, and new answers to your questions...the internet is full of shit so I figured I'd post the thoughts on here...its not like I'm jumping into this blind...
But thanks for the responses everyone
Any more advice regarding anything...age? The cycle?

 

[Rumpy]

As I said above, this is what I would recommend for a first cycle:
Test E or C pinned at 250mg 2X per week, (5oo/week), for 12 weeks minimum, I would not go over 600/week for 14 weeks for your first.
I like Dbol as a kick starter, 30-40mg/day for the first 4 weeks
Adex on cycle at 1/2mg E3D or EOD as needed
HCG pinned at 250iu on the same days as test, last pin 4 days before PCT, start around week 2. The date of the last pin is more important than the first
PCT 15-18 days after last test pin, Nolva 40/20/20/20 Clomid 100/50/50/50

I really do feel that you should wait until you're 24-25. You can still do irreparable damage to your HPT axis at 21. Not quite as bad as 19, but still, too much of a risk in my opinion.

Why the hell would anyone think that the Mr O guys are fine and healthy?? Do you really think those guys can just quit cold turkey, no testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), nothing, and just walk away and live normal healthy lives? Their systems are FUBAR, that's a major live decision with huge consequences. I really truly honestly believe everyone that comes to this forum wants to get in better shape, faster, but not make a life long commitment to it. At 25, it's normal to want to be in as good of shape as possible, but at 35, priorities can change. Some day you will be married, have a real job/career, want/have kids, and won't have as much time left for the gym. You'll want to live a normal life, without having to go in for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) injections every week for the rest of your life, all because you wanted a shortcut at 21 that just couldn't wait until you were 24.

 

[frank.tb]

I understand what you're getting at and I rly do appreciate the advice...
Not saying you or wrong or that I'm right, I just know individuals personally that started younger that my age and are in their late 30s and are healthier than most with blood work to prove it (they are nurses)...
But I also know guys that started later like you have mentioned but completely screwed themselves up!
Again not saying you are incorrect...but this reason is the exact reason I'm asking for advice...because there are so many different individual experiences that it's a little difficult to decide if the risk is worth the benefit...
Anymore comments guys and gals?

 

[Next Level]

I understand what you're getting at and I rly do appreciate the advice...
Not saying you or wrong or that I'm right, I just know individuals personally that started younger that my age and are in their late 30s and are healthier than most with blood work to prove it (they are nurses)...
But I also know guys that started later like you have mentioned but completely screwed themselves up!
Again not saying you are incorrect...but this reason is the exact reason I'm asking for advice...because there are so many different individual experiences that it's a little difficult to decide if the risk is worth the benefit...
Anymore comments guys and gals?

When I first started reading this forum and others nearly a year ago I thought the vets were unnecessarily harsh to younger guys wanting the benefits of AAS. Now, I understand it to be tough love, some of the guys who are most militant about waiting have either seen or personally experienced what can happen to an unprepared or underdeveloped user who starts too young.

Now the more 18-23 yr old posters I read about, the more I feel it would be best for them to wait. I'm 31 and haven't started yet but will sometime this year, I take injecting powerful hormones into my body very seriously and sometimes get the feeling from the younger guys that they truly don't understand the gravity of such a serious situation. Research research research, then do what you feel is best. You only have one body and will have to live with the consequences, good or bad.

Good luck buddy.

 

[frank.tb]

When I first started reading this forum and others nearly a year ago I thought the vets were unnecessarily harsh to younger guys wanting the benefits of AAS. Now, I understand it to be tough love, some of the guys who are most militant about waiting have either seen or personally experienced what can happen to an unprepared or underdeveloped user who starts too young.

Now the more 18-23 yr old posters I read about, the more I feel it would be best for them to wait. I'm 31 and haven't started yet but will sometime this year, I take injecting powerful hormones into my body very seriously and sometimes get the feeling from the younger guys that they truly don't understand the gravity of such a serious situation. Research research research, then do what you feel is best. You only have one body and will have to live with the consequences, good or bad.

Good luck buddy.

Oh i understand...ive seen first hand in other individuals that have suffered the harsh consequences...these were mostly because their gear wasn't what it was supposed to be or they just flat out did it wrong...

I'm just trying to gain as much knowledge as possible so that whether i start in a few months or a few years, ill have enough info to know what I'm doing...If i do do it regardless if its now or later i will have someone monitoring my dosage, pinning for me (just to make it easier), and have blood tests done twice a year by a Dr. that specializes in testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) replacement...i have a decent connection in all of those areas...I'm just trying to assure you that I'm not trying to "get big quick" to look good for a little while, I dont see bodybuilding as a sport as much as i see it as a lifestyle. I don't have any intention of jumping on Tren after one cycle, regardless of when i start. I wld rather stick to the basics for a few years and make slow steady progress. Thanks for the concern and advice. Thats why i came to this forum. Because the Vets and Others on this board seem to actually give somewhat of a shit and are not afraid to tell you if you're outright retarded for doing something.

That being said, i have seen a Vet on here that has a very high reputation that stated something along the lines of: 21 isnt the BEST age, but its far better than 18, but in actuality isnt too young to start if done properly...i'm not mentioning his name because i'm not sure how accurate my summary is of his statement...
Thats why i'm asking for advice because everyone says something slightly different!

Thanks for the responses! its greatly appreciated!

Any other comments are greatly appreciated

 

[ChaseTheYoke]

When I first started reading this forum and others nearly a year ago I thought the vets were unnecessarily harsh to younger guys wanting the benefits of AAS. Now, I understand it to be tough love, some of the guys who are most militant about waiting have either seen or personally experienced what can happen to an unprepared or underdeveloped user who starts too young.

Now the more 18-23 yr old posters I read about, the more I feel it would be best for them to wait. I'm 31 and haven't started yet but will sometime this year, I take injecting powerful hormones into my body very seriously and sometimes get the feeling from the younger guys that they truly don't understand the gravity of such a serious situation. Research research research, then do what you feel is best. You only have one body and will have to live with the consequences, good or bad.

Good luck buddy.

Being 23 I can say that the general mentality most of the younger people I lift with is:
"I don't care if I shave a couple years off my life as long as they bury me in a BIG ASS BOX."

Just my "funny" 2c

 

[frank.tb]

Being 23 I can say that the general mentality most of the younger people I lift with is:
"I don't care if I shave a couple years off my life as long as they bury me in a BIG ASS BOX."

Just my "funny" 2c

Have a friend like that! Doing it completely wrong and started when he was just turning 18 i believe...might have still been 17...
but has nothing to show for it! He says his diet is good but i doubt it...and his workouts confuse me... ive tried to tell him the way ive seen that gear should be cycled, but he has the "well you're not on anything so you don't know" type of attitude about it. dont think he even knows what nolva or clomid is...Hes on the road to testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for sure. Tren ONLY cycle at just turning 20yrs old...bad idea...

 

[frank.tb]

Bump

Any other thoughts? Please share

 

[MentzerIsGOD]

heres a tought... try smth more basic for starters...
why not try Sustanon (sust) alone?
or...heres a death sentence to me, but meh... dbol?

dbol is not smth epic as stand alone, but in low dosages for a short period of time, you could get some nice results and also - if u get sides you can always stop and its out of your system fast.

i know lots of people who started with dbol, cause its easy... it also bloats you and then you lose lots of that weight, but its all about the experience... also - since its your first cycle, you will still gain pretty nice, if you eat right.

 

[frank.tb]

The only reason I was using Sustanon (sust) as the test base in my cycle example is because it's something I can get a hold of easily right now...pharmaceutical grade...and the guy (a good friend) is lettin it all go half price right now cus.his girl wants him to quit the business
So it's just a little over half price right now...
And I was under the impression test is test...only real difference is how often you want to pin...or is that incorrect?

 

[frank.tb]

So if.I were to throw primo.in a cycle one day, y wld Sustanon (sust) be a bad choice?

 

[MentzerIsGOD]

i cant find a reason to use primo at all... why u want primo?!

and test is test but you still need to find what works for you... you should pin Sustanon (sust) EOD to take advandage of prop in it

 

[frank.tb]

I like the idea of slow steady dry gains...and the lil aid in collagen synthesis (bad shoulder and have had 2 hernia repairs in my even younger days) I noticed on the Var cycle I had it rly helped with soreness in the shoulder and surgical areas...
I also can't do anything extremely noticeable so like I said...the idea of slow steady dry gains is what I'm interested in