Dht vs ai on cycle

[djm6464]

instead of using an anti-estrogen on cycle, my plan is to use an oral DHT precursor such as 3 alpha or 5 alpha dione or diol, or even 3 beta. along the lines of proviron, masteron, androhard even

imo, not only inhibiting increased estrogen but also getting the other effects of increased amounts of DHT such as lowered SHBG and increased strength, and libido, muscle hardness, ect.

obviously those that stay away from dht for reasons like hair thinning, or prostate (i dont agree, as it requires very high estrogen to do this as well) it would be a viable option

im piecing together a test/tren cycle, and besides having aromasin and caber on hand, i want to approach it this way

thoughts?

 

[Cobra Strike]

So your talking about using a dht blocker???? or something to increase your dht???? I must be a fuckin idiot lol

 

[hatefulONE]

So your talking about using a dht blocker???? or something to increase your dht???? I must be a fuckin idiot lol

I'm assuming he means a compound that will increase dht, which on a test/tren cycle I think is an excellent idea.

 

[Cobra Strike]

I'm assuming he means a compound that will increase dht, which on a test/tren cycle I think is an excellent idea.

well if thats the case then kiss your hair goodbye...testosterone itself is one of the harshest steroids on the hair being that it highly converts to dht...dht is what binds to your hair follicles and kills your hair. And estrogen does not cause hairloss...estrogen is more of your hairs friend then enemy...androgens cause hair loss. IMO I do not like this idea and I wont be attempting anything like this very soon...

unless someone wants to try and persuade my argument???

 

[Cobra Strike]

I think you are alot better off keeping the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and caber and not attempting what you are thinking about doing...but if you do it take before and after pictures of your hair so I can see how it thinned ....i mean turned out lol

and Im still not quite understanding what your plan is...but if it is to increase dht then I dont agree

 

[djm6464]

I'm assuming he means a compound that will increase dht, which on a test/tren cycle I think is an excellent idea.

exactly, it essentially will act like an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), but with the added androgenic benefits

the hair is gone man, so no worries

a friend of a friend ran dht in the form of a ph, along side tren ace test prop, and never needed an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and dealt with prolactin with b6, p5p, vitex n such

i have everything on hand, just in case, just toying with the idea

 

[Cobra Strike]

exactly, it essentially will act like an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), but with the added androgenic benefits

the hair is gone man, so no worries

a friend of a friend ran dht in the form of a ph, along side tren ace test prop, and never needed an Aromatase inhibitor (AI), and dealt with prolactin with b6, p5p, vitex n such

i have everything on hand, just in case, just toying with the idea

I see...well then if no hair then dht really wouldnt bother me at all...fuck its like one of my main concerns...Now Im interested in seeing the results of this theory...Ive never thought about dht in that way

 

[UserAt204]

It sounds pretty good in theory but I was confused from the original post as well because it looked like you were stating the increase in DHT would not effect the hairline but what you are talking about is just like adding proviron to increase free test.

 

[oufinny]

AndroHard does seem like a good option but at the dose you would need it could get expensive compared to an AI.

 

[HereToStudy]

AndroHard does seem like a good option but at the dose you would need it could get expensive compared to an AI.

A good Aromatase inhibitor (AI) will cost you some cash too (Exem). But in reality you are getting a bit more than just estrogen control when using a product like AndroHard so the increase in cost may be balanced by additional benefits in terms of body composition and strength.

 

[djm6464]

It sounds pretty good in theory but I was confused from the original post as well because it looked like you were stating the increase in DHT would not effect the hairline but what you are talking about is just like adding proviron to increase free test.

no not to free up test, DHT to control estrogenic and progestinal sides from a nor compound

 

[robbocopp]

I am assuming that you're thinking that by binding to SHBG - proviron (DHT) will reduce estrogen ?

By binding directly to SHBG (as SHBG has greater affinity to DHT than testosterone) - DHT will allow more testosterone to be "free" and usable for anabolic use. The excess testosterone will also be converted to estrogen - thus not reducing the estrogen sides.

SHBG does NOT bind to progesterone - from what I know there's another glycoprotein used for this - thus, would do nothing against TREN sides (progresterone sides).

DHT will also be harsh on your prostate - which is already going to be under tremendous stress from the test-injections - use finasteride to ameliorate this.

If you're trying to prevent estrogen - use a suicide inhibitor (Exemestane - AI) to control estrogen sides. Start out with 25mgs (mcgs?) / day and after about 5 days you can probably take a 25mcg pill EOD.

For progesteron sides ??? NO easy answer on the tren conversion process and how to stop it - do some Google searches and see that in-vitro there are studies that show monotamoxifen has some effect at the cellular level but that's NOT directly applied here. Some say "zinc" ... other B6.... others say that by keeping estrogen really low they don't get progesterone sides either.

 

[lartinos]

I would only for a very low dose cycle.

 

[djm6464]

this is taken from an article by patrick arnold on the subject of dht


Anti – Estrogen effects of DHT

One important function of DHT in the body that does not get much discussion is its antagonism of estrogen. Some men that take Proscar learn this the hard way – by developing a case of gynecomastia. By reducing DHT’s protection against estrogen in the body, these men have fallen victim to its most dreaded ramification – bitch tits!

How does DHT protect against estrogen? There are at least three ways that this likely occurs. First of all, DHT directly inhibits estrogens activity on tissues. It either does this by acting as a competitive antagonist to the estrogen receptor or by decreasing estrogen-induced RNA transcription at a point subsequent to estrogen receptor binding.

Second of all, DHT and its metabolites have been shown to directly block the production of estrogens from androgens by inhibiting the activity of the aromatase enzyme. The studies done in breast tissue showed that DHT, androsterone, and 5alpha-androstandione are potent inhibitors of the formation of estrone from androstenedione. 5alpha-androstandione was shown to be the most potent, while androsterone was the least.

Lastly, DHT acts on the hypothalamus / pituitary to decrease the secretion of gonadotropins. By decreasing the secretion of gonadotropins you decrease the production of the raw materials for estrogen production – testosterone and androstenedione (DHT itself cannot aromatize into estrogens).

 

[HereToStudy]

Very interesting read.

 

[BigBlackguy]

That's awesome... is that saying that DHT has SERM-like properties? Or am I totally misconstruing DHT's effects on tissues??

 

[UserAt204]

Good post DJM. PA knows his shit

 

[Good Grip]

Well im interested in your results. This is a learning experience for me.

 

[djm6464]

That's awesome... is that saying that DHT has SERM-like properties? Or am I totally misconstruing DHT's effects on tissues??

its what im understanding, and want to challenge with my upcoming cycle....if dht can negate the use on an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like aromasin (of course i have the stuff), and hopefully by doing so limit progestin activity at the breast tissue....id be very satisfied

im not sold, and will have caber/prami/aromasin and such tucked under my pillow in case

but a test/tren/masteron or androhard cycle is my plan

i already have the tnt, just weighing the other stuff

 

[ryansm]

I am assuming that you're thinking that by binding to SHBG - proviron (DHT) will reduce estrogen ?

By binding directly to SHBG (as SHBG has greater affinity to DHT than testosterone) - DHT will allow more testosterone to be "free" and usable for anabolic use. The excess testosterone will also be converted to estrogen - thus not reducing the estrogen sides.

SHBG does NOT bind to progesterone - from what I know there's another glycoprotein used for this - thus, would do nothing against TREN sides (progresterone sides).

DHT will also be harsh on your prostate - which is already going to be under tremendous stress from the test-injections - use finasteride to ameliorate this.

If you're trying to prevent estrogen - use a suicide inhibitor (Exemestane - AI) to control estrogen sides. Start out with 25mgs (mcgs?) / day and after about 5 days you can probably take a 25mcg pill EOD.

For progesteron sides ??? NO easy answer on the tren conversion process and how to stop it - do some Google searches and see that in-vitro there are studies that show monotamoxifen has some effect at the cellular level but that's NOT directly applied here. Some say "zinc" ... other B6.... others say that by keeping estrogen really low they don't get progesterone sides either.

"Trenbolone, TREN, Nandrolone can cause gyno because they lack a potent 5a-reduced metabolite (dihydronandrolone is weaker than dihydrotestosterone). (15) If you are worried about gyno from progestational steroids you should consider boosting your 5a-reduced metabolites during the cycle (mentioned above). This can avoid most if not all of the gyno problems associated with progestational hormones. I should mention here that aromatase inhibitors alone (AI***8217;s) will not help prevent gyno from progestational compounds. It is the antagonistic action of 5a-reduced hormones that is required."

Found in the article here
16 Ways to Fight Gynecomastia | Primordial Performance Blog