@ Oak What LH and FSH levels do you consider "shut down" ?
I don't know, I guess my opinion of shut down means no SPERM, testosterone is suppressive for sure, but its not as bad as everyone claims. There was only 1 study showing it was a successful male birth control, and it was on Asian men, for some reason when they did it on caucasian's in the 70's it was only 70% effective.
I know guys that were competitive BBer's for 15 years, never coming off, and then taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and having a baby.
I am not saying it can't shut you down permanently, cause there is always a chance.
Dr Scally has treated many ASIH patients, some of which abused for years, out of the 1'000's he helped, he says almost all of them recovered to normal TT and sperm counts.
can't remember this show I was watching at my buddies house, they were doing a special on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). They sent this guy to a SPERM doc, the guy had to be 90, they ask him what are the chances of not being able to have a baby after testosterone, he said, unless there was a problem before, meaning infertility, then its very unlikely to become infertile from testosterone, he said from his experience.
I would say there is more info and reports out there to prove its not permanent, than info showing that it is.
So thats where I stand, but I am not a doctor
So test shutsdown your sperm(liquid)too?If you want to keep sperm and semen, run HCG. It keeps the boys fuller.
T alone may not shut you down completely, but you are at 100% chance of having less semen.
So test shutsdown your sperm(liquid)too?
You ejaculate much less than usual?
That`s just messed up.
TRT will have an effect on LH and FSH and it will shut most down. By shut down I mean natty test production due to the fact that LH and FSH are suppressed. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) mimics LH so it will keep your testicles functioning, produce sperm\semen, and make the boys produce a little test on their own.
The fact that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) mimics LH means that it also supresses natural LH production. Negative feedback loops are a bitch sometimes.
If you stop both all together most guys will return to pre testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) levels of T, however, some return to a higher level and some to a lower level. For me I always go back to the ~250 range.
To sum it all up:
TRT no Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) = LH, FSH shutdown and Natty T is suppressed. Sperm count lowers
TRT with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) = LH and FSH still suppressed but Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) stimulates Natty T and sperm\semen production by mimicking (while also suppressing) LH
Clomid will produce similar results as Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) while stimulating LH and FSH.
HCG aromatizes especiallt at doses over 300 iu daily.
Most Docs that use clomid or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will have patients do this on the last 2 days before their next T injection. If you are on weekly injections and using T cyp or E. That is when serum T levels are the lowest. So if you inject 100mg T cyp on monday your levels peak on Wednesday and beg in to fall. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or clomid would be used on saturday and sunday leading up to your next T injection on Monday again. This keeps the boys functioning, (producing a little natty T and sperm\semen) full, and your T levels from droping to far before your next dose of T.
Hope this helps.
Well said. I would also add that Clomid works completely differently then HCG. With Clomid, your brain thinks that T is low, and tells it to produce more by interupting the feedback. At least that's my understanding.