Do testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) doses definitely cause shutdown?
- Thread starter killler
- Start date
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
no it doesn't always shut everyone down, this is why attempts at turning testosterone into a male birth control med have failed to be successful.
People would be surprised at the % of people who do not get shut down from testosterone.
People would be surprised at the % of people who do not get shut down from testosterone.
THE-DET-OAK
IncreasedMyT @ ULV
I don't know, I guess my opinion of shut down means no SPERM, testosterone is suppressive for sure, but its not as bad as everyone claims. There was only 1 study showing it was a successful male birth control, and it was on Asian men, for some reason when they did it on caucasian's in the 70's it was only 70% effective.
I know guys that were competitive BBer's for 15 years, never coming off, and then taking HCG and having a baby.
I am not saying it can't shut you down permanently, cause there is always a chance.
Dr Scally has treated many ASIH patients, some of which abused for years, out of the 1'000's he helped, he says almost all of them recovered to normal TT and sperm counts.
I can't remember this show I was watching at my buddies house, they were doing a special on TRT. They sent this guy to a SPERM doc, the guy had to be 90, they ask him what are the chances of not being able to have a baby after testosterone, he said, unless there was a problem before, meaning infertility, then its very unlikely to become infertile from testosterone, he said from his experience.
I would say there is more info and reports out there to prove its not permanent, than info showing that it is.
So thats where I stand, but I am not a doctor
I have been on TRT for nearly 3 years. 200 mgs per week with HCG (1000units a week). My wife and I just went to a fertility clinic to get both of us checked out as we are now second guessing are desire to have children. I came out of my test with flying colors. High sperm count, normal shape, mobility,etc. Everyone may be different, but this protocol has obviously done alright for me. I was convinced I would be in trouble on my side, but we are good to go (at least my side)...
pbarby
New member
I don't know, I guess my opinion of shut down means no SPERM, testosterone is suppressive for sure, but its not as bad as everyone claims. There was only 1 study showing it was a successful male birth control, and it was on Asian men, for some reason when they did it on caucasian's in the 70's it was only 70% effective.
I know guys that were competitive BBer's for 15 years, never coming off, and then taking Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) and having a baby.
I am not saying it can't shut you down permanently, cause there is always a chance.
Dr Scally has treated many ASIH patients, some of which abused for years, out of the 1'000's he helped, he says almost all of them recovered to normal TT and sperm counts.
can't remember this show I was watching at my buddies house, they were doing a special on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). They sent this guy to a SPERM doc, the guy had to be 90, they ask him what are the chances of not being able to have a baby after testosterone, he said, unless there was a problem before, meaning infertility, then its very unlikely to become infertile from testosterone, he said from his experience.
I would say there is more info and reports out there to prove its not permanent, than info showing that it is.
So thats where I stand, but I am not a doctor
Det...So, 70% of males on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) will be shut down? I know its not what u said directly, just need something to tell my wife who would like to b prego next year, hopefully by me. Would you recommend any pct (if so, how much) for someone on 200 ml of test c a week if they wanted to keep their count high/normal? Again, I feel confident it will come back once I'm off, but the wife is buying an at home microscope to count sperm and I want to be prepared for a remedy since I do not want to stop testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) anytime soon
Frustrated1
New member
If you want to keep sperm and semen, run HCG. It keeps the boys fuller.
T alone may not shut you down completely, but you are at 100% chance of having less semen.
T alone may not shut you down completely, but you are at 100% chance of having less semen.
So test shutsdown your sperm(liquid)too?
You ejaculate much less than usual?
That`s just messed up.
lymedestroyer
New member
TRT will have an effect on LH and FSH and it will shut most down. By shut down I mean natty test production due to the fact that LH and FSH are suppressed. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) mimics LH so it will keep your testicles functioning, produce sperm\semen, and make the boys produce a little test on their own.
The fact that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) mimics LH means that it also supresses natural LH production. Negative feedback loops are a bitch sometimes.
If you stop both all together most guys will return to pre testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) levels of T, however, some return to a higher level and some to a lower level. For me I always go back to the ~250 range.
To sum it all up:
TRT no Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) = LH, FSH shutdown and Natty T is suppressed. Sperm count lowers
TRT with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) = LH and FSH still suppressed but Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) stimulates Natty T and sperm\semen production by mimicking (while also suppressing) LH
Clomid will produce similar results as Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) while stimulating LH and FSH.
HCG aromatizes especiallt at doses over 300 iu daily.
Most Docs that use clomid or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will have patients do this on the last 2 days before their next T injection. If you are on weekly injections and using T cyp or E. That is when serum T levels are the lowest. So if you inject 100mg T cyp on monday your levels peak on Wednesday and beg in to fall. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or clomid would be used on saturday and sunday leading up to your next T injection on Monday again. This keeps the boys functioning, (producing a little natty T and sperm\semen) full, and your T levels from droping to far before your next dose of T.
Hope this helps.
The fact that Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) mimics LH means that it also supresses natural LH production. Negative feedback loops are a bitch sometimes.
If you stop both all together most guys will return to pre testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) levels of T, however, some return to a higher level and some to a lower level. For me I always go back to the ~250 range.
To sum it all up:
TRT no Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) = LH, FSH shutdown and Natty T is suppressed. Sperm count lowers
TRT with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) = LH and FSH still suppressed but Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) stimulates Natty T and sperm\semen production by mimicking (while also suppressing) LH
Clomid will produce similar results as Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) while stimulating LH and FSH.
HCG aromatizes especiallt at doses over 300 iu daily.
Most Docs that use clomid or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will have patients do this on the last 2 days before their next T injection. If you are on weekly injections and using T cyp or E. That is when serum T levels are the lowest. So if you inject 100mg T cyp on monday your levels peak on Wednesday and beg in to fall. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or clomid would be used on saturday and sunday leading up to your next T injection on Monday again. This keeps the boys functioning, (producing a little natty T and sperm\semen) full, and your T levels from droping to far before your next dose of T.
Hope this helps.
Frustrated1
New member
true, true, true.
Well said. I would also add that Clomid works completely differently then HCG. With Clomid, your brain thinks that T is low, and tells it to produce more by interupting the feedback. At least that's my understanding.
lymedestroyer
New member
Yes clomid works differently than HCG. I would use clomid in a testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) situation rather than HCG. Clomid is somwhat of an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) aromatizes so for me clomid wins. Not to mention that you would only use 8 injections of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) @ 250 iu and it is only good for 30 days. Unless you use ovidrel you would waste more than you use in 30 days. Ovidrel has a very long shelf life in the fridge after reconstitution.
HCG is still a good choice if you dont want to deal with the possible (yet rare) side effects of clomid. If you are E sensitive then you can always run Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) days.
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