Doc won't allow HCG and AI use

orochi

New member
Hi folks,

I'm a TRT sufferer from Europe and maybe you don't know it but European doctors (endos,urologists) know nothing about treating TRT. This is like the dark ages here.
You guys are so damn lucky for being in the USA and having hormone doctors. The USA is so much advanced when it comes to male anti aging. It's so sad.

I have been to endos for years begging them to put me on TRT and they all made fun of me and told me my levels are still normal.
Then finally I found an endo, basically the last one in my region, who at least admitted that I have secondary hypogonadism.
But he is also not very open and not interested. He first put me on gels which didn't really work for me. Then he suggested Nebido (1 injection every 3 months but often
people need more injections). He also said I could get Testoviron Depot injections 250mg every 3 weeks.
I asked him about AIs and HCG. He said he doesn't do that. He also will not allow subcutaneous self-injections even though this would be easier than going to a doc every 2-3
weeks for an injection.

Basically my hands are bound. I have NO other endo I could try out. I have been to them all. Endos here basically treat obese people with insulin. THIS is what they do.
They know nothing about HRT and also don't care.

My question now is if I wanted to treat myself with HCG and AI how risky would that be?
I mean what if I get side effects or drug interactions?
I also take antidepressants. I don't even know if antidepressants and arimidex would work or if this could be dangerous.
The problem is if I cannot tell any doctor about it then in case I get side effects I also cannot go to a doctor for help.

But TRT with HCG seems like no option to me. Even now my balls have totally shrunk from the gel!
Often times my scrotum is so tensed that I cannot even tell if the balls are still there!

I also don't want to become infertile.

And if you use HCG do you absolutely also need an AI because of E2? Will HCG always raise E2?

Let's say I just wanted to try HCG how quickly should I notice a change to see if it helps me?

And how risky is the injection of HCG and storing HCG in the fridge? Does HCG need to be used immediately upon opening?
I don't know if the HCG here is in a glass vial which cannot be sealed again once opened. I don't want to risk contaminations with bacteria.
 
Lots of guys on TRT do not use an AI or hCG. How old are you and are you trying to have kids?

Do you have blood work showing you have elevated estradiol? Many guys do not get elevated estradiol while on Nebidonthus never needing an AI.
 
I'm on just Test E 50 MG 2x a week for the past 6 weeks. So far I feel great and the only sides I've had is some testicular atrophy and reduced volume of ejactulation, both are just cosmetic,neither of which make taking HCG necessary imo. Though if I was single and potentially showing my nuts to someone for the first time, I might feel different. My E2 was a tiny bit high, but I don't' have any sides from it, so I'm hoping to manage that with some supplements and avoid an AI if I can. Less medicine is better imo.
 
I'm on just Test E 50 MG 2x a week for the past 6 weeks. So far I feel great and the only sides I've had is some testicular atrophy and reduced volume of ejactulation, both are just cosmetic,neither of which make taking HCG necessary imo. Though if I was single and potentially showing my nuts to someone for the first time, I might feel different. My E2 was a tiny bit high, but I don't' have any sides from it, so I'm hoping to manage that with some supplements and avoid an AI if I can. Less medicine is better imo.

What's a "tiny bit high" ?
What b.f % are you?
 
49 but it was the regular assay not the sensitive, so it could be 10-20 points lower. I haven't checked in awhile, but probably around 20-22%
 
49 is a bit high

I agree, but within the margin of error for the non-sensitive assay. I'm getting blood work done again in 2 weeks to see how a month of taking zinc and DIM effected it. I have no symptoms of high E2, so better to not take an AI and risk crashing it for now reason.
 
I agree, but within the margin of error for the non-sensitive assay. I'm getting blood work done again in 2 weeks to see how a month of taking zinc and DIM effected it. I have no symptoms of high E2, so better to not take an AI and risk crashing it for now reason.

You could take a low dose a.i and lower that estradiol way too much if you stay on it for even a short period of time.
I find estradiol can lower too fast while on TRT even using the smallest doses.
it's like a case of buyer beware.
not to sure DIM will do anything for you. Even zinc needs to be dosed relatively high to get a decent a.i. action off it.
its not healthy either to dose zinc too high plus it can accelerate RBC production.
 
49 but it was the regular assay not the sensitive, so it could be 10-20 points lower. I haven't checked in awhile, but probably around 20-22%

What's your TT on this dose again?
estradiol was measured how many days from shot?
 
You could take a low dose a.i and lower that estradiol way too much if you stay on it for even a short period of time.
I find estradiol can lower too fast while on TRT even using the smallest doses.
it's like a case of buyer beware.
not to sure DIM will do anything for you. Even zinc needs to be dosed relatively high to get a decent a.i. action off it.
its not healthy either to dose zinc too high plus it can accelerate RBC production.

Yeah that's why I'm not messing with an AI unless it goes higher. Taking supplements cause its better than doing nothing, but not expecting a huge change from them. I'm taking a high does of Zinc, but nothing crazy. One of these a day: http://smile.amazon.com/Foods-Zinc-Picolinate-Capsules-50mg/dp/B000TMJZ4G?sa-no-redirect=1

Will not be taking it for longer than 4 weeks at a time.

What's your TT on this dose again?
estradiol was measured how many days from shot?

750 TT
Blood was done 72 hours since my last shot, 12 hours before the next one.
 
Yeah that's why I'm not messing with an AI unless it goes higher. Taking supplements cause its better than doing nothing, but not expecting a huge change from them. I'm taking a high does of Zinc, but nothing crazy. One of these a day: Amazon.com: NOW Foods Zinc Picolinate, 120 Capsules / 50mg: Health & Personal Care

Will not be taking it for longer than 4 weeks at a time.



750 TT
Blood was done 72 hours since my last shot, 12 hours before the next one.

I used that zinc too. Picolinate is said to be best absorbed
 
Rather than the estrogen number what is your quality of life? Any adverse symptoms or reason for concern in that area?
 
OP... If your doctor will alow you to choose between Nebido and Test E... I'd choose Nebido every time...

I was originally on Sustanon (same injection frequency as Test E - and the amount of peaks and troughs I went through trying to control E2 was unreal) - I was switched to Nebido 14 months ago, and although the first couple of months were rough, once my T levels reached steady state - I haven't looked back...

Through frequent blood testing my doctor reduced my injection protocol from 12 weeks down to 8 weeks, then 6 weeks and then finally to every 4 weeks which I am on now. And to be quite frank, I feel feckin marvellous!

I admit, I was amazed that my doc allowed me to go as low as injecting every 4 weeks (the equivalent of 250mg weekly) - and this keeps me in the upper end of the T range. (UK range)

To be honest, even injecting every 4 weeks, I don't really need an AI... but I take 0.5 Adex (UGL - not prescribed) every 6 days just to keep it mid range, where I feel best. European doctors WILL NOT entertain HCG or AI's - so if you do chose to go down that route, you are on your own, and need to find a reputable supplier!

As far as HCG goes, I DO use it. Mainly for cosmetic reasons to maintain reasonable sized nuts. Not that I had to, but psychologically, having tiny nuts was affecting me! - It's an alpha male thing I guess!

I inject 500iu - twice weekly - for 10 weeks - and then I have 4 weeks off.

Hope this is of some help to you buddy - stick with it!

BigBen
 
Nebido sounds awesome, I wish it was approved in the US already. You can get it if your doctor participates in the clinical trial but you have to go to the office for injections, there is no self injecting allowed yet. I want to try it once the finish the trial, I've heard a lot of good things, and less pinning would be great.
 
Nebido sounds awesome, I wish it was approved in the US already. You can get it if your doctor participates in the clinical trial but you have to go to the office for injections, there is no self injecting allowed yet. I want to try it once the finish the trial, I've heard a lot of good things, and less pinning would be great.

It is approved in the US. It is about $900 an injection though.
 
Good read, I'm currently on TRT, about 5 months now. HCG has been on my mind as of late, how much difference is there between oral and injections? Luckily I'm in the U.S. but haven't talk to the doc about it yet.
 
Nebido sounds awesome, I wish it was approved in the US already. You can get it if your doctor participates in the clinical trial but you have to go to the office for injections, there is no self injecting allowed yet. I want to try it once the finish the trial, I've heard a lot of good things, and less pinning would be great.

Trust me... you wouldn't want to do the injections yourself!

To inject the 4ml properly, you need to take between 3 to 4 minutes of slow consistent pressure - not an easy position to hold when you're pinning glutes...

My nurse allowed my wife to attend the first 2 injections and then on the 3rd visit she let my wife do it while she supervised - once she could see my wife was ok with it, we've pinned at home ever since.
 
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