Docs's Test E journal

[Docd187]

Been slacking on the updates but here's where I'm at:

Began wk 7 of my cycle. Still feeling pretty good although my libido and constant erections have come down from where they were 2wks ago. Strength is still doing good p, mood is good, typifying to catch up on some sleep, etc. my weight is now fluctuating between 210-214lbs so I've gone up some more weight (probably lots of carb bloat and water weight) but will take a week or so to see if I should up my calories more or keep them steady.

Thanks to half and jkr, we figured out my cramps and holding water issues were more than likely due to the clen, excessive sweating, and loss of electrolytes. I've stopped clen and t3 for the time being and making sure I take in lots of fluids and electrolytes and the symptoms have disappeared (thanks guys!). Hit a plateau on my squat so I'm kind of bummed about dropping the weight to attack the plateau but I'd rather do that than risk form.

Food today consisted of:
6 whole eggs
1cup oatmeal with a banana and tbsp honey
2 cups whole milk
2 scoops protein
1/4 cup mixed nuts
1/2 can chick peas
1 mcdouble
2 scoops protein PWO
1 nature valley granola bar PWO
And will be making turkey burgers with veggies and salad later tonight

Training today was quick and just compounds with basic accessory lifts. Felt the symptoms of overtraining lately which is compounded with my sleep problems so I kept it short today to help recovery:

Squats 3x5 (ATG)
Military Press 3x5 missed last rep on last set so pissed but will try again this wk same weight
Deadlifts 1x5
Weighted dips 3x6
Weighted sit-ups 4x8
Weighted hyper extensions 2x8
Bb curls supersetted with CG Bench press 3x8 for both. Did lots of stretching as I've been slacking lately and have felt tightness all around.

 

[DreDay187]

Just a quick update. I'll be going to get bloodwork done tomorrow 6/15/2013 bright and early to test an idea I have to get actual test level readings not the >1500 result. I have it from another member who also got bloodwork in CT that here it's >1500. If I get the actual number I'll be ecstatic and make a thread in the anabolic section outlining the steps I took. Also this will double as my mid-cycle bloodwork to see where my test levels are (effectiveness of my source and dosing protocols), how I'm controlling estrogen and other sides with Aromatase inhibitor (AI) usage, and to check my hematocrit and RBC to see if should donate blood. I donate blood normally to help other ppl who need it but I did a pre-emotive donation around a month ago and want to see if my levels are back up or in the acceptable range.

Weight has been fluctuating up and down a bit but my appetite has also gone down considerably. Trying to fight it as much as possible. Other health markers are fine, estrogenic sides seem to be minimal, and weight for my lifts is continuing to go up. Several ppl have commented on how I've gotten bigger and more muscular so even if my gear is bunk (don't believe that to be) I'm still at least making progress naturally.

 

[Metalhead]

Back from the dead! Haha hopefully youll get the actual number bro. Keep growing brother

 

[Ocdude]

I think it just depends on the lab mostly... My buddy got it back both ways from the same place, the first time came back as a diluted test showing aprx 3400, the other just said over.

 

[GoPro]

Loks fun DOC!!! Keep it up, you will loves the gains with a routine like that!!!!

 

[DreDay187]

Back from the dead! Haha hopefully youll get the actual number bro. Keep growing brother

Lmao, yea hasn't been much stuff worthy of continually updating but I thought the lab work idea would def be interesting to many ppl. Plus I want to see where my numbers are at mid cycle. I'm trying to grow some more but so long as my strength keeps going up, size is #2 priority lol. Good to hear from you metal!!

I think it just depends on the lab mostly... My buddy got it back both ways from the same place, the first time came back as a diluted test showing aprx 3400, the other just said over.

You're right and wrong (if my attempt works that is lol). Another trusted member told me he got tested in CT (my state) and got >1500. If I get my test back with the actual number it would show my method worked in getting the real number REGARDLESS of the lab. If I'm wrong then you're right it's up to the lab. I'm hoping I'm right though since it should work for everyone no matter where they are.

Loks fun DOC!!! Keep it up, you will loves the gains with a routine like that!!!!

Good to hear from you GoPro! Haven't seen you around much lately (maybe I'm just not looking in the right places or right time lol). Anyway I'm am LOVING THE FUCK out of the routine and cycle. Weights up, fat hasn't been that bad, sides are minimal, and my strength and endurance in the gym is amazing. I hit a few plateaus when I tried the clen/t3 and my elbow and knee started to act up. I got went down to 2x/wk training for a couple weeks and tightened up my form and adjusted it in some instances. Knee pain is gone completely and elbow is feeling much better while still dipping, benching and overhead pressing. My bench is one of my weakest lifts (power cleaning 40lbs less than bench) due to old injuries like torn muscle and a few dislocated shoulders but even my bench keeps going up!! Thanks for the support buddy.

 

[halfwit]

Just a quick update. I'll be going to get bloodwork done tomorrow 6/15/2013 bright and early to test an idea I have to get actual test level readings not the >1500 result. I have it from another member who also got bloodwork in CT that here it's >1500. If I get the actual number I'll be ecstatic and make a thread in the anabolic section outlining the steps I took. Also this will double as my mid-cycle bloodwork to see where my test levels are (effectiveness of my source and dosing protocols), how I'm controlling estrogen and other sides with Aromatase inhibitor (AI) usage, and to check my hematocrit and RBC to see if should donate blood. I donate blood normally to help other ppl who need it but I did a pre-emotive donation around a month ago and want to see if my levels are back up or in the acceptable range.

Weight has been fluctuating up and down a bit but my appetite has also gone down considerably. Trying to fight it as much as possible. Other health markers are fine, estrogenic sides seem to be minimal, and weight for my lifts is continuing to go up. Several ppl have commented on how I've gotten bigger and more muscular so even if my gear is bunk (don't believe that to be) I'm still at least making progress naturally.

I'm sooo dying to see those results man. If your theory works, you're a damn genius! If not, well - you can still be our ER bitch when the box wine is a flowin'!

Keep hitting it hard my brother from another mother!

 

[DreDay187]

I'm sooo dying to see those results man. If your theory works, you're a damn genius! If not, well - you can still be our ER bitch when the box wine is a flowin'!

Keep hitting it hard my brother from another mother!

Arghhhhhhh!! I guess it is my turn to be bitch since I've skipped a bunch of rotations . And I thought it was agreed upon that next party is moscato, you do have slightly more expensive taste than boxed wine brother lmao!!! Like I said, my pre-cycle bloods were done on a Saturday (4/8/13) and I had results by Monday (4/10/13). So I would think absolutely no later than Tuesday Ill be posting results.

And I'm hitting it harder than I do when fapping to Abella Anderson (girl in Metal's avi and my "perfect girl") on a test and Viagra cycle lmao. In other words can't be done any harder haha.

 

[fitzy331]

Great info here, man!

 

[halfwit]

Arghhhhhhh!! I guess it is my turn to be bitch since I've skipped a bunch of rotations . And I thought it was agreed upon that next party is moscato, you do have slightly more expensive taste than boxed wine brother lmao!!! Like I said, my pre-cycle bloods were done on a Saturday (4/8/13) and I had results by Monday (4/10/13). So I would think absolutely no later than Tuesday Ill be posting results.

And I'm hitting it harder than I do when fapping to Abella Anderson (girl in Metal's avi and my "perfect girl") on a test and Viagra cycle lmao. In other words can't be done any harder haha.

Haha, moscato it is! I have to admit, Abella Anderson is one talented woman. I've seen a handful of her videos and she most certainly is enthusiastic when it comes to taking care of business. It's funny though, I didn't recognize her from Metal's avi. Good eye my man!

 

[DreDay187]

Haha, moscato it is! I have to admit, Abella Anderson is one talented woman. I've seen a handful of her videos and she most certainly is enthusiastic when it comes to taking care of business. It's funny though, I didn't recognize her from Metal's avi. Good eye my man!

Not only enthusiastic and talented but that little smile/smirk she gets when "working" is irresistible lol. I can spot that girl from 2000yards down range with one eye lmao

 

[DreDay187]

Another quick update: I got bloods done last Saturday and got the results earlier in the week, figured I'd post them here so ppl can see. As a refresher I'm on Pinnacles Test Enanthate ~625mg/wk and using liquid anastrozole as my on cycle Aromatase inhibitor (AI) at .25mg/EOD. This test was taken on wk10 or 11 of a 16wk cycle. You'll notice on my lab results my E2 is well over the reference range which explains my water weight gain among other things. My serum test levels aren't as high as I would've liked to see but again that's partly due to the fact my E2 levels are high and I started out at slightly higher BF% than I would've liked. I've bumped up my liquidex dose for the remainder of the cycle to .5mg/ED to bring E2 down which will hopefully result in slightly higher test levels and less bloat.

Had a good training session today:
Squats 3sets x 5
Bench press 3sets x 5
Power cleans 5sets x 3
Weighted sit-ups
Weighted platform jumps

Diet and weight gain has plateaued. Still fighting a lack of appetite but at least I'm maintains my weight with slight fluctuations here and there from mainly water. ~3800 calories/day minimum 215g protein 95g fat and the rest of the calories come mainly from carbs with some added protein and fat but varies day by day. Weight is a solid 210-212lbs up from ~189lbs at beginning of cycle and up from 178lbs at beginning of my bulk which I started before the cycle.

Lab test results:

View attachment 551760View attachment 551761

View attachment 551762View attachment 551764

 

[Ocdude]

Nice work either way doc! Looks like your plan with the lab worked too, haha now I want to know what you did.
Once you bring your E2 back down the bloat should get better and I'd think you might get past the plateau you're experiencing. Have you recalculated your tdee since starting?

 

[DreDay187]

Nice work either way doc! Looks like your plan with the lab worked too, haha now I want to know what you did.
Once you bring your E2 back down the bloat should get better and I'd think you might get past the plateau you're experiencing. Have you recalculated your tdee since starting?

You're right about the bloat buddy and I have recalculated TDEE. My problem is appetite. I usually can eat like a mofo but my appetite has vanished lately. I'm literally forcing food down until I can't take it anymore and that happens to be just enough to maintain my weight. If I could stick to 4000-4300 cals I know I'd gain weight but the 3800 I ate yesterday was the most in a few days. Just can't get any ore down. I've been doing some fast food, liquid calories, high caloric foods but hopefully my appetite comes back for the remaining few weeks of my cycle. Thanks for the tips though!

When I get home from work I'm going to be making a thread about what I did so keep a lookout for it. Just can't go into detail like I'd like at work and some of my notes I'd have to look up are at home. There are a few different options one could take and every time I try and put it down on here it comes out confusing and jumbled. Have to proofread that shit hana

 

[Ocdude]

I have the same trouble man, I get to about 3500 calories and my body just starts telling me to F off haha. It's a pain in the ass to get up 30 minutes earlier than normal and shove 600+ calories down then hop into my car knowing there's another snack to eat soon. But I did realize, for me, breakfast was key to setting up the whole day, when I skipped I was always under by 500-1000 calories

I'm wondering now if there's a correlation between elevated E2 and appetite...

Well looking forward to what you come up with. I suppose I need to work as well, typing on my phone here!

 

[Ocdude]

My curiosity got the better of me at work... Appears there could be some tie between higher levels of estrogen and another hormone called leptin which helps regulate appetite.

Cross-talk between estrogen and leptin signaling in the hypothalamus

 

[DreDay187]

My curiosity got the better of me at work... Appears there could be some tie between higher levels of estrogen and another hormone called leptin which helps regulate appetite.

Cross-talk between estrogen and leptin signaling in the hypothalamus

YOU ARE THE FUCKING MAN!!!!!! I've seen evidence of leptin being influenced by body composition and fat % but now a possible lo link to estrogen as well. High estrogen is often times found in obese people but is it the estrogen helping cause the obesity or the obesity helping cause the high estrogen I'm not sure. I know leptin hormone tells your body how much fat you carry and how much you eat and that obese ppl can have high levels of leptin but they are insensitive to it and and resistant.

This is goin to be an interesting read and you got the whole study not just the abstract. Dude you are being repped for this find lol.

Here's a few links I've found interesting but haven't gone through it all yet.

Bodyweight Regulation: Leptin Part 1 | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

Bodyweight Regulation: Leptin Part 2 | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

 

[halfwit]

I love this forum. I honestly feel I've learned more here than I do in college as we're always looking for new ways to improve ourselves and our health. Definitely can't wait for that thread Doc. Like I said previously, you're a genius and I think the entire community benefits from your insight. Good find Ocdude!

 

[DreDay187]

I love this forum. I honestly feel I've learned more here than I do in college as we're always looking for new ways to improve ourselves and our health. Definitely can't wait for that thread Doc. Like I said previously, you're a genius and I think the entire community benefits from your insight. Good find Ocdude!

No brother I'm just tenacious when I get a scent on a lead lol. It wasn't that difficult once the clues started piling up. I'm writing that thread as we speak but it's kinda long bc I'm writing about the whole thought process I had so Doing it on the iPad. Of course wifi is being a bitch and cutting in and out so got to wait for it to come back to finish writing it. I'm doing this on he phone while I wait

This place is always giving me excuses to research new topics when I may be too lazy to do it for my own lol. But we do have ppl like you, Austinite, Mike Arnold, HeavyIron and all the rest of the guys who take on the load of researching and passing knowledge.

Ocdude, again, thanks for that link!

 

[Ocdude]

YOU ARE THE FUCKING MAN!!!!!! I've seen evidence of leptin being influenced by body composition and fat % but now a possible lo link to estrogen as well. High estrogen is often times found in obese people but is it the estrogen helping cause the obesity or the obesity helping cause the high estrogen I'm not sure. I know leptin hormone tells your body how much fat you carry and how much you eat and that obese ppl can have high levels of leptin but they are insensitive to it and and resistant.

This is goin to be an interesting read and you got the whole study not just the abstract. Dude you are being repped for this find lol.

Here's a few links I've found interesting but haven't gone through it all yet.

Bodyweight Regulation: Leptin Part 1 | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

Bodyweight Regulation: Leptin Part 2 | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

LOL Thanks Doc! I found the BodyRecomp website right off too when I searched for elevated Estrogen appetite related articles. What he says sounds like a great, and I'm sure well educated conclusion based on the study. But since I totally geek out on research like this, I was pretty annoyed that he was quite specific about promoting his damn book, but never linked to the actual study!

Lyle McDonald's Summary

Its interesting to note that the more fat you carry, the higher levels of Leptin you will secrete, and on top of that, people with lower body fat seem to nearly fall off the curve and secrete almost no leptin (ESPECIALLY very lean bodybuilders). This hormone, as McDonald descibes is there to apparently prevent starvation, rather than deal with obesity as once thought. So the higher the level of leptin, the less you'll want to eat. Estrogen also plays a very similar, overlapping role in the brain:

...recent work in rats has found that leptin ‘rewires’ the hypothalamus to express more of the neurons which release the ‘good’ hormones (in terms of appetite control). Estrogen has been found to do the same thing. Both estrogen and leptin also activate those same neurons, increasing levels of the hormone in question (it goes by the abbreviation POMC for pro-opiomelanocortin). I’d note that recent work suggests that it is the drop in estrogen (rather than the increase in progesterone) that is responsible for the increase in appetite during certain parts of the menstrual cycle. That is, normal or high estrogen levels blunt appetite.

Not that we're calling your mid/late cycle plateau a Menstrual cycle, doc! But this explains a lot, and there just aren't that many studies out there on how estrogen affects the male body in terms of appetite. Fortunately, our amazing rediculously complex endocrine system acts remarkably similar in males and females, to a certain degree at least.

Ironically, there's another homone produced in the stomach that does just the opposite. Ghrerlin , which in my mind sounds more like Norse folklore than modern medical science, signals the brain that you're hungry. Now I haven't dove into that one yet, not even sure how you'd begin to stimulate that or even want to, if you're already battling high estrogen levels first. You could take it a step further by adding GHRP-2 which is known specifically to induce hunger by stimulating the production of Ghrelin.

My thoughts based on all this: Get your E2 levels back down (which is a given anyway)... And try a short burst of intermittent fasting to kickstart your metabolism and appetite again, which in and of itself has a lot of great benefits like increased growth hormone levels, increased fat burning potential etc. Don't settle for your body's attempt at homeostasis, force it out of it!