Does hgh shed body fat
- Thread starter bigballer
- Start date
J
Juice Authority
Guest
Supergirl is is going to laugh at me for posting this again but take a few minutes and read this thread:
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=162170&highlight=Gh
Three of Elite's smartest people discuss this exact issue with references to the science. (I'll let you decide which 3 people are the smartest).
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=162170&highlight=Gh
Three of Elite's smartest people discuss this exact issue with references to the science. (I'll let you decide which 3 people are the smartest).
Jyzza
Owns QualityMuscle.com
We have a very good HGH post here on our board....
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2487
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2487
LAWNSAVER
New member
Man...just about every point I was making on that thread was just proven scientifically on that thread from Elite. Man I took a beating from GY and SG. Well...thats ok, it builds character.
GH is amazing....but has some downfalls, which can be over come with other substances.
At low doses with an androgen, you will see mostly fat lose, unless you are already lean or are eating huge amounts of cals.
Gh with an androgen, and slin will cause more dramatic muscle building effects.
And it seems even with larger doses of GH, you still need the other substances to really grow.
I think we all benifit from threads like the 2 on GH. I, personally, have a better understanding of the way GH works!
GH is amazing....but has some downfalls, which can be over come with other substances.
At low doses with an androgen, you will see mostly fat lose, unless you are already lean or are eating huge amounts of cals.
Gh with an androgen, and slin will cause more dramatic muscle building effects.
And it seems even with larger doses of GH, you still need the other substances to really grow.
I think we all benifit from threads like the 2 on GH. I, personally, have a better understanding of the way GH works!
J
Juice Authority
Guest
LAWNSAVER said:
See, I got your back Bro!
supergirl
New member
LAWNSAVER said:
dude.. I NEVER gave you a beating... if i did, you would know it
loli think you are an asset... DID YOU miss reading that part??? and i think your research and knowledge and overall understanding is GREAT...
My only point was taht slin is NOT necessary.. i admitted that it helps, but should be used with care and intelligence.. and is NOT for the average Joe...
Even Ironmaster will agree that slin is scary shit and should be used with precaution!!!
so no beating on my part... oh senstive one lol
LAWNSAVER
New member
supergirl said:dude.. I NEVER gave you a beating... if i did, you would know it
i think you are an asset... DID YOU miss reading that part??? and i think your research and knowledge and overall understanding is GREAT...
My only point was taht slin is NOT necessary.. i admitted that it helps, but should be used with care and intelligence.. and is NOT for the average Joe...
Even Ironmaster will agree that slin is scary shit and should be used with precaution!!!
so no beating on my part... oh senstive one lol
You know its funny when trying to talk through a discussion board, you cant hear a voice or see facial or body expressions.
I was being completely sacarstic.
Yes, slin is dangerous if not used right, but its not that difficult to do it right! Thats all I was saying!
Also...you did say and I quote...GH causing insulin resistance is BULLSHIT!. Well, conceeding the fact that you know I more about GH, I backed off.
I not that sensitive...I dealt Craps in Atlantic City for 4 years...I've been called everything, spit on, had a 2 guys die at the table, and watched a guy pee in a cup because he didnt want to miss his turn with the dice...LOL
SG...you and GY made some comments that could have been taken as a flame. I believe I kept pretty calm, as I could have been wrong. I guess it was just my weakness it not sticking to what I knew as correct.
We are all a team here and love threads that get deep like that. I love it! Learning gives me a rush!
As you said if it was a beating I would know...well you would truely know if I was hurt or offended.
I hope you still love me as much as I love you!
J
Juice Authority
Guest
Get a room guys! 
supergirl
New member
LAWNSAVER said:
yes.. you are one of my favs!!!correct.. i did call Bullshit... I say this because i have seen personally in my clients those that use gh alone and those that use gh with slin...
For example... one guy who is 290 was on gh, test, and eq.. he went up to 310 with cycle BUT his calories were 5000k per day!!!
that is why i say it is possible to bulk without slin
slin and gh are carb dependent... meaning that high calories almost takes the place of exogenous slin.. HOWEVER for even greater gains, slin is good to use...
anywho... glad we are in this together!!!
J
Juice Authority
Guest
Courtsey of DangerousGrounds:
Thanks to guys like Dr. Atkins and "Zone" author Barry Sears, everyone now knows that insulin makes you fat. Just eating in a way that causes excessively high insulin levels can pack on the pounds faster than a bodybuilder can suck down a pizza after the night show. The thing is, insulin is also the most anabolic hormone there is, period.
Sure, you say, GH packs on muscle. So do many steroids. Both true. But the really massive guys on the pro circuit will tell you the truth if you can ever get their confidence. None of them have ever gotten really, truly massive without adding insulin to their stacks. They’ll also tell you, however, that nothing else made them as FAT as using insulin. This is because insulin drives protein and carbohydrate into muscle but insulin also shunts tons of fat into adipose tissue storage if you give it the chance.
One night, Mike Zumpano and Dan Duchaine and I were sitting around having one of our philosophical discussions on the various idiosyncrasies of various anabolic pharmaceuticals. For some reason the talk turned to insulin. Horrified at the idea of having any fat on my body whatsoever (okay, maybe I’m small but I’m LEAN), I immediately said, no way! That stuff makes you FAT!
Mike was more philosophical. He suggested that the ideal way to use insulin would be to set up a bilateral IV drip of straight parenteral amino acids (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!!!) and after it had been running into your veins for a while, take a lethal injection of insulin…This, Mike said would get you huge. Dan suggested that if he were doing this, he’d give the guy the injection in a freckle so it wouldn’t show in case he died!
While I concurred that such might be the ideal strategy, I was hard pressed to agree that the risks were in alignment with the potential benefits. I tried to get the conversation to turn towards a less ludicrous topic. "Mike, I said, why does insulin make these guys so fat?"
His response was that it wasn’t insulin, it was fear. This made zero sense to me, so I pressed him on it. He explained that most of the fat gain is caused by excess carbohydrate consumption during insulin use. The common dictum is that to use insulin safely, one must concurrently consume a minimum of 10 grams of carbohydrate for each IU of insulin used. Thus, for a bodybuilder using 8 IU’s of insulin 2 times a day, in addition to his normal intake of fat and protein and carbs, he would need to consume a minimum of 160 grams of extra carbohydrate to keep him from going into a hypoglycemic coma. You’d hardly expect that 160 extra grams of carbs, or 640 extra calories per day would make a significant difference to someone already eating 5000 or more calories per day. In most cases it wouldn’t, but that’s not what Mike felt was happening in the real world.
The thing is, most bodybuilders have a high degree of fear about going into insulin shock. So they have a tendency to be somewhat reactive to any change in mental state following an injection. This leads to a much more substantial intake of carbs than simply the 10 grams per IU.
Though this amount of additional carbohydrate does not seem terribly excessive, I was certain that it was the primary reason why insulin users gained a lot of size but also a disproportionate amount of fat. In discussing this with Mike Zumpano, several things occurred to us. First, what was the rationale behind this dosage of carbohydrate? Second, did consuming this amount of carbohydrate have a basis in human biochemistry? And third, was there a more elegant solution that would enable bodybuilders to use insulin safely for anabolic effect but avoid the excessive fat gains that have so far plagued users?
We both felt that there had to be a better way. Human plasma only contains about 5 grams of carbohydrate at any one time. Diabetics that have taken too much insulin can usually get their blood sugar levels back into normal range by consuming as little a five grams (only 20 calories!) of dextrose. IF that was the case, then how did we arrive at the 10-gram per IU rule?
A New and Dangerous Method for "No Fat Gain" Insulin Use
Okay, so maybe it’s not terribly dangerous (provided you do it exactly like I say here), but it takes a hell of a lot of discipline to do it this way. The pay-off is a big muscle gain with a minimal fat gain. Is it worth it? You be the judge.
Here’s the trick; take your insulin, but only follow a LOW CARB DIET. That’s right, LOW. As in less then 50 grams of carbs per day low! Insanity? Let me explain the biochemical rationale and you can decide for yourself.
Here’s the theory. If you aren’t interested in anything except being huge, you can skip this and go right to the meat of the program. But before you do, MAKE SURE YOU READ THE WARNINGS! THIS PROGRAM CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS IF DONE INCORRECTLY! DON’T MONKEY AROUND WITH THIS. ALSO PLEASE NOTE THAT THE AUTHOR AND THE PUBLISHERS OF THIS E-ZINE WILL NOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY DEATHS OR INJURIES ASSOCIATED WITH THIS THEORETICAL APPROACH TO USING INSULIIN FOR MUSCLE GAIN!!! SIMPLY STATED, IF YOU TRY THIS THEORETICAL APPROACH TO INSULIN USE, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MAY SERIOUSLY HARM YOURSELF OR DIE, THUS FORFEITING YOUR RIGHTS TO HOLD ANYONE RESPONSIBLE BUT YOURSELF!
When I became convinced that insulin was preferentially repartitioning carbs into adipose tissue storage, I asked myself if there was some other way to maintain moderate blood sugar with a high degree of stability. My answer was gluconeogenesis. If you look on a biochemical pathways chart (Boehinger’s is my personal favorite), you can clearly see that when hepatic and muscle glycogen stores are depleted, but before the body drops into ketosis, the body begins to convert amino acids into glucose to maintain blood glucose levels. This process is known as gluconeogenesis.
By eating a very low carbohydrate diet, you set the stage for a depletion of hepatic and muscular glycogen stores. This up-regulates the enzymes necessary for rapid and efficient conversion of amino acids (read protein) into glucose. The word gluconeogenesis literally means "the birth of new glucose."
The second half of the equation of course, is protein. If you aren’t eating many carbs, the only way your body can produce glucose is to convert the building blocks of proteins (amino acids) into glucose. This happens to some degree whenever you eat protein, however, when you eat a huge amount of protein, even more glucose is created.
It is the glucose created from excess protein that keeps you off the floor when using insulin on a low carb diet. The thing is, we’re not talking ordinary protein consumption here, we’re talking about taking massive, I mean ludicrously huge, amounts of protein. In fact, any company that sells whey protein should be loving me after I finish this article, because there is no way that you’ll be able to eat the amount of protein that you require to do this correctly from normal food. As an example, you’d need to eat roughly 24 chicken breast a day to get the amount of protein that I found necessary to support the level of gluconeogenesis that you are going to need to use insulin with low carbs safely.
Working with a number of top athletes to refine this program, we discovered that the best strategy was to consume 600 grams of protein from a combination of whey protein and casein, plus one solid meal that contained another 50 to 100 grams of protein, plus some fiber from green leafy vegetables. The remainder of the calories need to come from fats that have no, or at least very little, carbohydrate. This means no nuts…nuts have carbs.
Another thing that you need to remember is that you need to consume a ton of water on this program - somewhere between 1 and a half and 2 gallons every day in addition to the water you get from your protein drinks. Rather then break it up into a drink every 30 minutes to an hour, mix up a 2-quart container with 100 grams of protein and keep a checklist of how many times you empty it each day.
Another thing I’ve heard from the athletes that have used this regimen (aside from how much muscle they gained) was that they started to hate any protein drink they used, no matter how good it tasted when they started. My suggestion is to find the absolute blandest protein that you can possibly find…trust me, it will taste terrible at first, but after a few weeks of slugging it down day in and day out, it will taste less terrible than the tasty drink you used to think you liked.
Another thing that I heard fairly frequently was that not only did people get bigger; they also reported getting significantly stronger. My suspicion is that there was some sort of up-regulation of glycogen storage associated with using insulin and low carbs.
Downsides: probably the worst thing about this is the discipline it requires to consume this much protein day in and day out. Remember though, on this protocol, the only thing keeping you off the floor is your intake of protein. If you use the insulin and don’t maintain adequate protein intake, either you’re going to pass out and get a trip to the hospital, or break down and chow on some carbs to maintain blood sugar. If you do this, you need to stop using the insulin and spend at least a few days carb depleting before you begin the program again.
Remember, this program isn’t for everybody. It is difficult and potentially dangerous and you will need to apply every ounce of discipline you possess to make it through it. However, if you have the will power, the results may be everything you’ve hoped for and more.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIDEBAR: Theoretical Approach to Low Carb Insulin Use, Step by Step.
Days one through three: Carb depletion. You need to cut your carbs down to below 100 grams per day. I suggest taking them as low as 50 grams of carbs on day 3. You should also be increasing protein intake from your normal daily protein intake to 450 grams of protein per day.
Days four through 30: Protein needs to be at or above 600 grams per day. Carbs need to be held to less than 100 grams (50 is better) and you should use fats to make up the balance of your daily caloric requirements. As I said, I strongly recommend use of protein powders of mixed composition (Whey and Casein), though you can use some whole foods, too, if you wish. (Just keep in mind that 600 grams of protein from chicken breasts is about 24 chicken breasts a day!)
I recommend 2 insulin injections per day, depending upon when you train. One should be done during your workout, roughly 30 minutes before you’re finished training. The other should be taken either several hours before your workout (for those that train in the afternoon) or several hours after (if you train in the morning).
I suggest starting with a very small dose of insulin (4 IU’s) and gradually increasing it. (By the end of my program I was using 12 IU’s 3 times a day, but by this point I’m convinced that I was becoming somewhat insulin resistant).
It goes without saying that insulin should be injected subcutaneously (which shouldn’t be an issue unless you are also using GH or some other drug with an IV administration protocol. In this case, label stuff so you don’t screw up!)
I suggest that you discontinue the insulin and protein regimen within 26 days making it an even 30 for the entire cycle. If you have results even remotely approximating mine, you should have added 10 or more pounds of serious muscle!
Notes: Especially the first few times you use insulin (and any time you increase your dosage) have a friend monitor you for any signs of impending hypoglycemic event. Have those diabetic glucose or dextrose tabs available (you can find them at any pharmacy). If you find that you are feeling sleepy and dopey after taking the insulin, that’s okay, but be good about self-monitoring. If you start to lose your ability to stay awake, take a glucose tablet.
If you find yourself feeling hungry and alert after taking the insulin, one of two things are happening - either you did not take enough, or especially if it’s later in the cycle, you might be getting insulin resistant. In this case, I strongly suggest that you go off the insulin altogether and even consider a drug to improve insulin sensitivity, such as Rezulin
Lastly, BE CAREFUL. Insulin use is widely recognized as one of the riskiest frontiers of drug aided physique enhancement, and for good reason. If you don’t have the discipline to keep the carbs low and consume the required amount of protein EVERY SINGLE DAY, I suggest you stick to safer and saner methods
Thanks to guys like Dr. Atkins and "Zone" author Barry Sears, everyone now knows that insulin makes you fat. Just eating in a way that causes excessively high insulin levels can pack on the pounds faster than a bodybuilder can suck down a pizza after the night show. The thing is, insulin is also the most anabolic hormone there is, period.
Sure, you say, GH packs on muscle. So do many steroids. Both true. But the really massive guys on the pro circuit will tell you the truth if you can ever get their confidence. None of them have ever gotten really, truly massive without adding insulin to their stacks. They’ll also tell you, however, that nothing else made them as FAT as using insulin. This is because insulin drives protein and carbohydrate into muscle but insulin also shunts tons of fat into adipose tissue storage if you give it the chance.
One night, Mike Zumpano and Dan Duchaine and I were sitting around having one of our philosophical discussions on the various idiosyncrasies of various anabolic pharmaceuticals. For some reason the talk turned to insulin. Horrified at the idea of having any fat on my body whatsoever (okay, maybe I’m small but I’m LEAN), I immediately said, no way! That stuff makes you FAT!
Mike was more philosophical. He suggested that the ideal way to use insulin would be to set up a bilateral IV drip of straight parenteral amino acids (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!!!) and after it had been running into your veins for a while, take a lethal injection of insulin…This, Mike said would get you huge. Dan suggested that if he were doing this, he’d give the guy the injection in a freckle so it wouldn’t show in case he died!
While I concurred that such might be the ideal strategy, I was hard pressed to agree that the risks were in alignment with the potential benefits. I tried to get the conversation to turn towards a less ludicrous topic. "Mike, I said, why does insulin make these guys so fat?"
His response was that it wasn’t insulin, it was fear. This made zero sense to me, so I pressed him on it. He explained that most of the fat gain is caused by excess carbohydrate consumption during insulin use. The common dictum is that to use insulin safely, one must concurrently consume a minimum of 10 grams of carbohydrate for each IU of insulin used. Thus, for a bodybuilder using 8 IU’s of insulin 2 times a day, in addition to his normal intake of fat and protein and carbs, he would need to consume a minimum of 160 grams of extra carbohydrate to keep him from going into a hypoglycemic coma. You’d hardly expect that 160 extra grams of carbs, or 640 extra calories per day would make a significant difference to someone already eating 5000 or more calories per day. In most cases it wouldn’t, but that’s not what Mike felt was happening in the real world.
The thing is, most bodybuilders have a high degree of fear about going into insulin shock. So they have a tendency to be somewhat reactive to any change in mental state following an injection. This leads to a much more substantial intake of carbs than simply the 10 grams per IU.
Though this amount of additional carbohydrate does not seem terribly excessive, I was certain that it was the primary reason why insulin users gained a lot of size but also a disproportionate amount of fat. In discussing this with Mike Zumpano, several things occurred to us. First, what was the rationale behind this dosage of carbohydrate? Second, did consuming this amount of carbohydrate have a basis in human biochemistry? And third, was there a more elegant solution that would enable bodybuilders to use insulin safely for anabolic effect but avoid the excessive fat gains that have so far plagued users?
We both felt that there had to be a better way. Human plasma only contains about 5 grams of carbohydrate at any one time. Diabetics that have taken too much insulin can usually get their blood sugar levels back into normal range by consuming as little a five grams (only 20 calories!) of dextrose. IF that was the case, then how did we arrive at the 10-gram per IU rule?
A New and Dangerous Method for "No Fat Gain" Insulin Use
Okay, so maybe it’s not terribly dangerous (provided you do it exactly like I say here), but it takes a hell of a lot of discipline to do it this way. The pay-off is a big muscle gain with a minimal fat gain. Is it worth it? You be the judge.
Here’s the trick; take your insulin, but only follow a LOW CARB DIET. That’s right, LOW. As in less then 50 grams of carbs per day low! Insanity? Let me explain the biochemical rationale and you can decide for yourself.
Here’s the theory. If you aren’t interested in anything except being huge, you can skip this and go right to the meat of the program. But before you do, MAKE SURE YOU READ THE WARNINGS! THIS PROGRAM CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS IF DONE INCORRECTLY! DON’T MONKEY AROUND WITH THIS. ALSO PLEASE NOTE THAT THE AUTHOR AND THE PUBLISHERS OF THIS E-ZINE WILL NOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY DEATHS OR INJURIES ASSOCIATED WITH THIS THEORETICAL APPROACH TO USING INSULIIN FOR MUSCLE GAIN!!! SIMPLY STATED, IF YOU TRY THIS THEORETICAL APPROACH TO INSULIN USE, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MAY SERIOUSLY HARM YOURSELF OR DIE, THUS FORFEITING YOUR RIGHTS TO HOLD ANYONE RESPONSIBLE BUT YOURSELF!
When I became convinced that insulin was preferentially repartitioning carbs into adipose tissue storage, I asked myself if there was some other way to maintain moderate blood sugar with a high degree of stability. My answer was gluconeogenesis. If you look on a biochemical pathways chart (Boehinger’s is my personal favorite), you can clearly see that when hepatic and muscle glycogen stores are depleted, but before the body drops into ketosis, the body begins to convert amino acids into glucose to maintain blood glucose levels. This process is known as gluconeogenesis.
By eating a very low carbohydrate diet, you set the stage for a depletion of hepatic and muscular glycogen stores. This up-regulates the enzymes necessary for rapid and efficient conversion of amino acids (read protein) into glucose. The word gluconeogenesis literally means "the birth of new glucose."
The second half of the equation of course, is protein. If you aren’t eating many carbs, the only way your body can produce glucose is to convert the building blocks of proteins (amino acids) into glucose. This happens to some degree whenever you eat protein, however, when you eat a huge amount of protein, even more glucose is created.
It is the glucose created from excess protein that keeps you off the floor when using insulin on a low carb diet. The thing is, we’re not talking ordinary protein consumption here, we’re talking about taking massive, I mean ludicrously huge, amounts of protein. In fact, any company that sells whey protein should be loving me after I finish this article, because there is no way that you’ll be able to eat the amount of protein that you require to do this correctly from normal food. As an example, you’d need to eat roughly 24 chicken breast a day to get the amount of protein that I found necessary to support the level of gluconeogenesis that you are going to need to use insulin with low carbs safely.
Working with a number of top athletes to refine this program, we discovered that the best strategy was to consume 600 grams of protein from a combination of whey protein and casein, plus one solid meal that contained another 50 to 100 grams of protein, plus some fiber from green leafy vegetables. The remainder of the calories need to come from fats that have no, or at least very little, carbohydrate. This means no nuts…nuts have carbs.
Another thing that you need to remember is that you need to consume a ton of water on this program - somewhere between 1 and a half and 2 gallons every day in addition to the water you get from your protein drinks. Rather then break it up into a drink every 30 minutes to an hour, mix up a 2-quart container with 100 grams of protein and keep a checklist of how many times you empty it each day.
Another thing I’ve heard from the athletes that have used this regimen (aside from how much muscle they gained) was that they started to hate any protein drink they used, no matter how good it tasted when they started. My suggestion is to find the absolute blandest protein that you can possibly find…trust me, it will taste terrible at first, but after a few weeks of slugging it down day in and day out, it will taste less terrible than the tasty drink you used to think you liked.
Another thing that I heard fairly frequently was that not only did people get bigger; they also reported getting significantly stronger. My suspicion is that there was some sort of up-regulation of glycogen storage associated with using insulin and low carbs.
Downsides: probably the worst thing about this is the discipline it requires to consume this much protein day in and day out. Remember though, on this protocol, the only thing keeping you off the floor is your intake of protein. If you use the insulin and don’t maintain adequate protein intake, either you’re going to pass out and get a trip to the hospital, or break down and chow on some carbs to maintain blood sugar. If you do this, you need to stop using the insulin and spend at least a few days carb depleting before you begin the program again.
Remember, this program isn’t for everybody. It is difficult and potentially dangerous and you will need to apply every ounce of discipline you possess to make it through it. However, if you have the will power, the results may be everything you’ve hoped for and more.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIDEBAR: Theoretical Approach to Low Carb Insulin Use, Step by Step.
Days one through three: Carb depletion. You need to cut your carbs down to below 100 grams per day. I suggest taking them as low as 50 grams of carbs on day 3. You should also be increasing protein intake from your normal daily protein intake to 450 grams of protein per day.
Days four through 30: Protein needs to be at or above 600 grams per day. Carbs need to be held to less than 100 grams (50 is better) and you should use fats to make up the balance of your daily caloric requirements. As I said, I strongly recommend use of protein powders of mixed composition (Whey and Casein), though you can use some whole foods, too, if you wish. (Just keep in mind that 600 grams of protein from chicken breasts is about 24 chicken breasts a day!)
I recommend 2 insulin injections per day, depending upon when you train. One should be done during your workout, roughly 30 minutes before you’re finished training. The other should be taken either several hours before your workout (for those that train in the afternoon) or several hours after (if you train in the morning).
I suggest starting with a very small dose of insulin (4 IU’s) and gradually increasing it. (By the end of my program I was using 12 IU’s 3 times a day, but by this point I’m convinced that I was becoming somewhat insulin resistant).
It goes without saying that insulin should be injected subcutaneously (which shouldn’t be an issue unless you are also using GH or some other drug with an IV administration protocol. In this case, label stuff so you don’t screw up!)
I suggest that you discontinue the insulin and protein regimen within 26 days making it an even 30 for the entire cycle. If you have results even remotely approximating mine, you should have added 10 or more pounds of serious muscle!
Notes: Especially the first few times you use insulin (and any time you increase your dosage) have a friend monitor you for any signs of impending hypoglycemic event. Have those diabetic glucose or dextrose tabs available (you can find them at any pharmacy). If you find that you are feeling sleepy and dopey after taking the insulin, that’s okay, but be good about self-monitoring. If you start to lose your ability to stay awake, take a glucose tablet.
If you find yourself feeling hungry and alert after taking the insulin, one of two things are happening - either you did not take enough, or especially if it’s later in the cycle, you might be getting insulin resistant. In this case, I strongly suggest that you go off the insulin altogether and even consider a drug to improve insulin sensitivity, such as Rezulin
Lastly, BE CAREFUL. Insulin use is widely recognized as one of the riskiest frontiers of drug aided physique enhancement, and for good reason. If you don’t have the discipline to keep the carbs low and consume the required amount of protein EVERY SINGLE DAY, I suggest you stick to safer and saner methods
Tattoomeblew
Father of 1 Dad to 4
i allways liked this thread ---Growth Hormone Manual
It was originally posted on AF by Death on the field.
this is an article on GH i have been working on, it takes all the advice from the top vets on GH and has been thoroughly checked and also provides citings so u can look at the info and studies urself if u want. this was made to benefit all who are looking into starting GH or need basic info on it. i am not trying to take credit for it since most of the ideas in here are either common knowledge or by MOD or Ironmaster, this is only till ironmaster can get a book out with all his info on it. If anyone has anything ot add to it please do so, its only to help out hte iron brotherhood, enjoy, and merry xmas
Growth Hormone
Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest)
Strength-4
Weight Gain-4
Fat Loss-4
Side Effects-2
Keep Gains--4
Side Effects:
Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
Aromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.
GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
Soreness in Joints
Benefits of GH:
New Muscle Cells
Mood Enhancement
Smoothing and improving the skin
Leanness, it is a potent fat burner
Joint and ligament strengthening
Where to Inject, How, and How to Make:
You can site inject anywhere you can reach the subcutaneous layer. Pinch the flesh and pull back, then insert the needle in the "pocket" underneath. Doesn't absorb quick enough if you inject into the adipose tissue. Do not inject intra-muscular, though it can be done, it is not recommended. GH is a site injection, where it is shot is where it will burn the most noticeable fat. Most people do it in the stomach since that is a typical sub q shot with most of the fat being in that area. GH should be kept in a fridge; freezing will destroy the GH. On your kit it probably says to use the kit in 18-24 hours, remember these are for AIDS patients, not bodybuilders or athletes. Mixing the GH can either be done with sterile water or bacteriostic water. The kit with water will be fine for 3 days in the fridge, even with the sterile water, but you should not take this chance, rather you should use bacteriostic water and play it safe. This will keep it fine for a couple of weeks. When mixing the GH, let the water slide down the side as to not pulverize the GH wafer. Do not spray it directly against the wafer with any force. Before reconstitution and even after GH is fragile!!! Also once the water is injected into the bottle gently swirl the vial to reconstitute, do not shake or swirl violently!!!!
Conversions:
1 ml = 1 cc -/+
100 units per 1 cc
6 mg = 18iu
1 ml = 18iu
.50 ml = 9iu
.25 ml = 4.5iu
Some people choose to only do it in cc’s but here is how you can do it in units on a slin dart
5.5 = 1iu, so 2iu = 11 on a slin dart
Differences Between Kits:
The main difference between kits is how many iu’s they make when reconstituted. For example, Serostim re-constitutes to make 126iu, while a Saizen kit.... also made by Serono.... makes up 15iu. Another of their kits makes 54iu. It better be way cheaper than a Serostim kit! Humatrope is fine, but costs too much. The other main concern would be fakes; Lilly is the most often faked one. Some older GH kits do not have holograms on them and are legit, but they are usually only less than 100 dollars than new GH kits with holograms, and I would rather be assured of the hologram and legitimacy of the kit. Best buy currently is Serostim 126 iu kits. These are made for people with wasting diseases like AIDs. Many of these patients got infected because they are IV drug addicts..........they sell the Serostim on the street for drug money.
Dose:
4 to 6 iu ed is sufficient. Most people take it 5 days on 2 days off at their designated dosage. There is no reason or evidence why you cannot stay on for various lengths of time; there is no need to go 5 on 2 off other than cost. Considering that our natural production is only .5 to 1.5iu a day, this is still a huge bump for the body. Research has shown that the body's natural defense systems render mega doses of GH ineffective, anyway. GH does not cause gains in mass...it allows you to put on a great deal of lean mass in combination with proper steroid and insulin use. The user before taking must know this. One or two kits are not enough, you need at least 3 to make you happy, GH takes a while to make its effects, but remember they are long lasting, what you see is what you keep. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to notice a dramatic change in body comp using GH on an ED or 5/2 split. Lighter doses for long periods of time are better than large doses for short cycles. Like any other drug, the more you take the more the benefits, but likewise also more risks. 4-6 iu is a standard dose but many people take more, the most repulsing side effects happen at or beyond 12 iu a day but like anything else it depends on your predisposition for it.
How to Stack:
GH is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and t3. Insulin is extremely effective with GH, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because GH injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.
GH alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of GH is your best bet. When splitting GH/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural GH production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous GH supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then Gh with Test and Glucophage is good. GH is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of GH is only 2 hours so spread it out. Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own GH in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous GH suppresses this, you should not take it before bed. For best results, use a 17aa oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. GH/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.
It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting GH if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before GH use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your GH. You can cycle you steroids however you want to depending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of GH or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during GH cycling since GH lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of GH for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. GH also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.
Major Difference Between GH and Steroids:
Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics.
Half-Life of GH:
Exogenous (injected) GH has a "half-life" of approximately 2 hours . . . a 4-hour period of activity during which there is a suppression of naturally produced GH.
GH Naturally Produced:
We release the most of our naturally produced GH during the first two hours of deep sleep...you may take a little time to adjust.... your body thinks you should be in bed when that big influx hits. It is good to take a nap, that’s when you grow anyway. It always helps to take naps after workouts and injections everyday.
GH Causing Acromeglia:
Acromeglia is a disease...you either have it or you don't. Supplementing GH will not cause it. Persons suffering from acromeglia, like Andre the Giant, lack the natural defense mechanisms of the body to regulate the production and effects of GH secretion in he pituitary. It is well established in the medical literature that exogenous GH will not cause the disease.... of course it would worsen the condition in those who had it.
GH Gut: Myth or Reality?:
Some researchers claim that any gains in weight experienced by subjects using GH alone was due to growth of internal organs and connective tissue, which could cause some problems. Most studies do not agree with this theory and consider "GH gut" to be a myth. Some people are allergic to synthetic test, this is something you have to find out for yourself. Some people also feel intestinal discomfort from time to time, if so take it down to one item at a time to see what is causing you discomfort; creatine, glutamine, protein products, orals, and dirty gear have all been known to cause this, so find the problem early.
GH and IGF-1:
Perhaps the most relevant effect of IGF-1 is the ability of IGF-1 to increase protein synthesis by increasing cellular mRNA formation (mRNA makes protein) as well as increasing uptake of amino acids. This effect on protein synthesis can lead to increased lean mass. The research indicates that this effect is dependent on GH presence as well. So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis.
GH and IGF-1 are negative regulators of GH release so an increase in either (from a GH injection) reduces the secretion of GH. IGF-1 is very difficult to obtain in a useable condition.... it must be handled very gently and have bee kept at a rather precise temperature at all times. One can stimulate IGF production through the use of an oral steroid during cycle. Dbol, for example, causes a rather extensive release of IGF during the first pass through the liver.
The leading studies in this area: (Ney, 1999, Yarasheski, 1994.... Am J. App. Phys.)
In the Yarasheski study, no increase in lean muscle mass was noticed in the subjects using GH alone, but significant gains were found in subjects that supplemented with IGF and GH...add in the steroids and look out! Yarasheski studied weight trained athletes, supplementing one group with GH alone, and one group with GH and IGF. "So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. (Leanness and increased lean mass) Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis." Both seem to negatively downregulate the other over time, so as to lead to diminishing returns. Cycling would be in order for that reason. Also supplementing both is necessary because one or the other alone will suppress the natural production of the non-supplemented Latest study by Yarashevski - with GH alone...8 to 12% change in lean body composition. 6% increase in muscle mass.
__________________
It was originally posted on AF by Death on the field.
this is an article on GH i have been working on, it takes all the advice from the top vets on GH and has been thoroughly checked and also provides citings so u can look at the info and studies urself if u want. this was made to benefit all who are looking into starting GH or need basic info on it. i am not trying to take credit for it since most of the ideas in here are either common knowledge or by MOD or Ironmaster, this is only till ironmaster can get a book out with all his info on it. If anyone has anything ot add to it please do so, its only to help out hte iron brotherhood, enjoy, and merry xmas
Growth Hormone
Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest)
Strength-4
Weight Gain-4
Fat Loss-4
Side Effects-2
Keep Gains--4
Side Effects:
Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
Aromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.
GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
Soreness in Joints
Benefits of GH:
New Muscle Cells
Mood Enhancement
Smoothing and improving the skin
Leanness, it is a potent fat burner
Joint and ligament strengthening
Where to Inject, How, and How to Make:
You can site inject anywhere you can reach the subcutaneous layer. Pinch the flesh and pull back, then insert the needle in the "pocket" underneath. Doesn't absorb quick enough if you inject into the adipose tissue. Do not inject intra-muscular, though it can be done, it is not recommended. GH is a site injection, where it is shot is where it will burn the most noticeable fat. Most people do it in the stomach since that is a typical sub q shot with most of the fat being in that area. GH should be kept in a fridge; freezing will destroy the GH. On your kit it probably says to use the kit in 18-24 hours, remember these are for AIDS patients, not bodybuilders or athletes. Mixing the GH can either be done with sterile water or bacteriostic water. The kit with water will be fine for 3 days in the fridge, even with the sterile water, but you should not take this chance, rather you should use bacteriostic water and play it safe. This will keep it fine for a couple of weeks. When mixing the GH, let the water slide down the side as to not pulverize the GH wafer. Do not spray it directly against the wafer with any force. Before reconstitution and even after GH is fragile!!! Also once the water is injected into the bottle gently swirl the vial to reconstitute, do not shake or swirl violently!!!!
Conversions:
1 ml = 1 cc -/+
100 units per 1 cc
6 mg = 18iu
1 ml = 18iu
.50 ml = 9iu
.25 ml = 4.5iu
Some people choose to only do it in cc’s but here is how you can do it in units on a slin dart
5.5 = 1iu, so 2iu = 11 on a slin dart
Differences Between Kits:
The main difference between kits is how many iu’s they make when reconstituted. For example, Serostim re-constitutes to make 126iu, while a Saizen kit.... also made by Serono.... makes up 15iu. Another of their kits makes 54iu. It better be way cheaper than a Serostim kit! Humatrope is fine, but costs too much. The other main concern would be fakes; Lilly is the most often faked one. Some older GH kits do not have holograms on them and are legit, but they are usually only less than 100 dollars than new GH kits with holograms, and I would rather be assured of the hologram and legitimacy of the kit. Best buy currently is Serostim 126 iu kits. These are made for people with wasting diseases like AIDs. Many of these patients got infected because they are IV drug addicts..........they sell the Serostim on the street for drug money.
Dose:
4 to 6 iu ed is sufficient. Most people take it 5 days on 2 days off at their designated dosage. There is no reason or evidence why you cannot stay on for various lengths of time; there is no need to go 5 on 2 off other than cost. Considering that our natural production is only .5 to 1.5iu a day, this is still a huge bump for the body. Research has shown that the body's natural defense systems render mega doses of GH ineffective, anyway. GH does not cause gains in mass...it allows you to put on a great deal of lean mass in combination with proper steroid and insulin use. The user before taking must know this. One or two kits are not enough, you need at least 3 to make you happy, GH takes a while to make its effects, but remember they are long lasting, what you see is what you keep. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to notice a dramatic change in body comp using GH on an ED or 5/2 split. Lighter doses for long periods of time are better than large doses for short cycles. Like any other drug, the more you take the more the benefits, but likewise also more risks. 4-6 iu is a standard dose but many people take more, the most repulsing side effects happen at or beyond 12 iu a day but like anything else it depends on your predisposition for it.
How to Stack:
GH is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and t3. Insulin is extremely effective with GH, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because GH injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.
GH alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of GH is your best bet. When splitting GH/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural GH production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous GH supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then Gh with Test and Glucophage is good. GH is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of GH is only 2 hours so spread it out. Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own GH in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous GH suppresses this, you should not take it before bed. For best results, use a 17aa oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. GH/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.
It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting GH if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before GH use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your GH. You can cycle you steroids however you want to depending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of GH or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during GH cycling since GH lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of GH for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. GH also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.
Major Difference Between GH and Steroids:
Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics.
Half-Life of GH:
Exogenous (injected) GH has a "half-life" of approximately 2 hours . . . a 4-hour period of activity during which there is a suppression of naturally produced GH.
GH Naturally Produced:
We release the most of our naturally produced GH during the first two hours of deep sleep...you may take a little time to adjust.... your body thinks you should be in bed when that big influx hits. It is good to take a nap, that’s when you grow anyway. It always helps to take naps after workouts and injections everyday.
GH Causing Acromeglia:
Acromeglia is a disease...you either have it or you don't. Supplementing GH will not cause it. Persons suffering from acromeglia, like Andre the Giant, lack the natural defense mechanisms of the body to regulate the production and effects of GH secretion in he pituitary. It is well established in the medical literature that exogenous GH will not cause the disease.... of course it would worsen the condition in those who had it.
GH Gut: Myth or Reality?:
Some researchers claim that any gains in weight experienced by subjects using GH alone was due to growth of internal organs and connective tissue, which could cause some problems. Most studies do not agree with this theory and consider "GH gut" to be a myth. Some people are allergic to synthetic test, this is something you have to find out for yourself. Some people also feel intestinal discomfort from time to time, if so take it down to one item at a time to see what is causing you discomfort; creatine, glutamine, protein products, orals, and dirty gear have all been known to cause this, so find the problem early.
GH and IGF-1:
Perhaps the most relevant effect of IGF-1 is the ability of IGF-1 to increase protein synthesis by increasing cellular mRNA formation (mRNA makes protein) as well as increasing uptake of amino acids. This effect on protein synthesis can lead to increased lean mass. The research indicates that this effect is dependent on GH presence as well. So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis.
GH and IGF-1 are negative regulators of GH release so an increase in either (from a GH injection) reduces the secretion of GH. IGF-1 is very difficult to obtain in a useable condition.... it must be handled very gently and have bee kept at a rather precise temperature at all times. One can stimulate IGF production through the use of an oral steroid during cycle. Dbol, for example, causes a rather extensive release of IGF during the first pass through the liver.
The leading studies in this area: (Ney, 1999, Yarasheski, 1994.... Am J. App. Phys.)
In the Yarasheski study, no increase in lean muscle mass was noticed in the subjects using GH alone, but significant gains were found in subjects that supplemented with IGF and GH...add in the steroids and look out! Yarasheski studied weight trained athletes, supplementing one group with GH alone, and one group with GH and IGF. "So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. (Leanness and increased lean mass) Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis." Both seem to negatively downregulate the other over time, so as to lead to diminishing returns. Cycling would be in order for that reason. Also supplementing both is necessary because one or the other alone will suppress the natural production of the non-supplemented Latest study by Yarashevski - with GH alone...8 to 12% change in lean body composition. 6% increase in muscle mass.
__________________
J
Juice Authority
Guest
bigballer said:
This is one of the best boards around. Hang out for a while. I think you'll find most of information here very useful.
medical doctor
New member
Hgh usage for fat loose will vary from person to person. Genetics play a factor. Baseline IGF-1 levels are critical in determining how effective your Hgh therapy will be. It seems to be that if you obtain a IGF-1 level of 350ng/ml and greater, the chances of seeing that magical Fat Burning effect will be higher. The vast majority of people over the age of 21, will have low IGF-1 levels even more so over the age of 30. If you are one of the lucky ones who's baseline levels are higher than the average person, lets say 250ng/ml, to get to 350ng/ml will be much easier vs a person who has a starting point off 100ng/ml. Many people report very little changes in there body composition while taking Hgh without side effects, the body fat depletion will be modest and over a longer period of time vs someone who has a higher baseline. Too many people just shoot from the hip on this issue and really do not break it down enough.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
medical doctor said:
Interesting statement. Check out this link:
http://www.medibolics.com/GHMuscle2.htm
"Several studies of HIV(-) subjects indicate that growth hormone does not increase the portion of the lean body mass (LBM) that is known as muscle, even though growth hormone does increase "lean body mass". Note that LBM describes several compartments of tissue that include muscle, connective tissue, bone, organs, and water, too. These studies found that the increase in LBM with growth hormone in HIV(-) subjects consists of tissue other than muscle. Actually the increase in LBM appears to be mostly water, with perhaps a little connective tissue, and some organ tissue, too. (It should be underlined that organ tissue, like muscle tissue, wastes in HIV, and rebuilding of organ tissue by growth hormone could be an important effect that may improve overall health and survival.)"
medical doctor
New member
Great Post dude, The artical is 100% for it's time frame. Serono studied their serostim to combat the side effects Lipodystrophy in HIV population. A re-distribution of fat around the trunk area and upper back. Since then, HIV cocktails have gotten much better in keeping patients healther thus eliminating the waisting syndrome that is caused by AIDS. North Shore University Hospital, Manhassett NY. conducted a study in HIV + people, who were NOT advanced in there disease, a 16 week study of Serostim @ 18iu's p/d. They were looking to see if there were any lean muscle mass gained at 16 weeks. They did, a whole 3 lbs were gained on 18iu's p/d. No androgens at all were used. Just serostim. I have been telling people all the time, serostim is a shit product and always be a shit product. That is why is so readaly avalable on the street and nothing else is. Serono will never publish there findings because they know the cost of $1700 per kit, per week all for 3 lbs of lean mass will get them pulled of every medicade and ADAP formulary accross the country for AIDS patients. Serono is a JOKE company with even more of a joke of a product line.
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