ED 1,5 year post first cycle

[Ali.s5676]

Hey guys hope you're doing well , i started my first cycle on Jan 1st 2016 , for 9 weeks and i was stupid enough to run a heavy cycle

Age 21
Hight 175
Weight 74

:
First four week :
400 test/w
500 deca/w
20 dbol ED if remember correctly
--
The last 5 weeks of the cycle switched to :
1000 test/w
1000 deca/w
400 tren/w
Anadrol (don't remember the dosage excatly).

After that i ran the following PCT in mid March 2016 :
Hcg 5000 iu 3 shots (1 each week)
100 mg clomid for 30 days
--

Had ed and puffy nipples and was pointy at all .
Then i gave it a few weeks but no thing got better .

So i ran nolva to get rid of the puffy nipples and it went away then came back later .

I ran sm blood tests 6 monthes later (September 2016) :

Estradiol(E2) : 35,63 pg/mL (normal range 11-44)
FSH : 2,69 mIU/mL (normal range 1,5-12,4)
LH : 4,39 mIU/mL (normal range 1,7-8,6)
Total testosterone : 12,95 ng/mL (normal range 1,66-8,77)


Still no morning wood , weak erections and hard to maintain .

According to the doctors there is nothing wrong so you just have to wait

I ran another blood tests for in June 2017
Checked everything related to the sex drive , vitamin d , cholesterol, prolactin + the previous tests

And all was in range .. i don't know what's wrong

Lately i ran letro bc i had pain in my puffy nipples (which are geting better with time goes by) but i think the rebound was hard it came back worse and had to get back on it .

Right now i'm on letro planning to do the following :
2,5 for 7 days ed then another weak for 2,5 eod . Then some nolva for a week or two .

NOW i do realize that the cycle was insanely strong as a first cycle , and also the pct wasn't good enough . But here i am ..

Any thoughts ?

 

[scorob777]

Wow, pardon my language for a moment, but - holy fucking shit! Who gave you that cycle plan?

You would need to be a long term body builder carrying 50 lbs more muscle than genetic max to need that kind of dosing. And those chemicals for a first cycle? Tren, two orals? And that short duration for long esters (deca anyway, you didn't say what ester on test or tren). Wow you got bad advice, and must have spent a fortune.

So let's just talk about the deca and ignore everything else. It is a long ester, roughly 14 day half life to bleed back down. Because it is long the cycle duration should be minimum 12 weeks with 14 or 16 better, and it also takes a LOOONG time to bleed back down to where you can recover and PCT. Since you only took it for 5 weeks your blood levels would look like this:

View attachment 566883

You can see the deca blood levels peak in week 5, then start to bleed off slowly. Using about 14mg as a target to bleed down to (equivalent to 100 mg test per week), where above that you are suppressed, well that doesn't happen until week 11-1/2. A full 6-1/2 weeks after you stop pinning it. So if you tried to PCT in less time than that you pissed your PCT away. And that's just the deca, same story but shorter half life if your test and/or tren were long esters too. The take away here is if you want to use deca then use it at least say 14 weeks, don't take more than say 600 mg/wk, and if you take that much give at least 4 weeks after you stop it before you start PCT.

So I'm going to assume you didn't wait long enough and wasted your PCT. If that's the case then you should stop taking any drug you are on and retry a decent PCT plan. Something like 1,000 IU HCG per day for 10 days, then when done with that clomid 50 mg/day and nolva 40 mg/day for 6 weeks.

See if that sorts you out.

If you want to do this stuff again, wait until you are at least 25 and get some better advice.

 

[Ali.s5676]

Wow, pardon my language for a moment, but - holy fucking shit! Who gave you that cycle plan?

You would need to be a long term body builder carrying 50 lbs more muscle than genetic max to need that kind of dosing. And those chemicals for a first cycle? Tren, two orals? And that short duration for long esters (deca anyway, you didn't say what ester on test or tren). Wow you got bad advice, and must have spent a fortune.

So let's just talk about the deca and ignore everything else. It is a long ester, roughly 14 day half life to bleed back down. Because it is long the cycle duration should be minimum 12 weeks with 14 or 16 better, and it also takes a LOOONG time to bleed back down to where you can recover and PCT. Since you only took it for 5 weeks your blood levels would look like this:

View attachment 566883

You can see the deca blood levels peak in week 5, then start to bleed off slowly. Using about 14mg as a target to bleed down to (equivalent to 100 mg test per week), where above that you are suppressed, well that doesn't happen until week 11-1/2. A full 6-1/2 weeks after you stop pinning it. So if you tried to PCT in less time than that you pissed your PCT away. And that's just the deca, same story but shorter half life if your test and/or tren were long esters too. The take away here is if you want to use deca then use it at least say 14 weeks, don't take more than say 600 mg/wk, and if you take that much give at least 4 weeks after you stop it before you start PCT.

So I'm going to assume you didn't wait long enough and wasted your PCT. If that's the case then you should stop taking any drug you are on and retry a decent PCT plan. Something like 1,000 IU HCG per day for 10 days, then when done with that clomid 50 mg/day and nolva 40 mg/day for 6 weeks.

See if that sorts you out.

If you want to do this stuff again, wait until you are at least 25 and get some better advice.

Well first of all thank you ..

I ran the deca for the whole 9 weeks but in different dosages


I didn't acutally know anything about cycles and clearly neither the man who planned my cycle did.

I didn't wait long enough apperntely , i started my PCT in about 10 days from my last shot .

What does matter to me right now is to get better , i'm sick of the low libido and the puffy nipples , 1 1/2 year with it had an enormous physiological impact on me , at the end of the cycle i was 80kg , now i dropped nearly everything i gained .

I'd give what you suggested a try but excuse my stupidity , isn't the PCT is to get your hormones back to normal? All of my hormones are in range (test above range) sure i don't feel normal but the tests says otherwise , could u explain that?

Thanks you again my friend i really appreciate it .

 

[scorob777]

Those test results don't make much sense, and don't match your symptoms. I'd suggest getting a new blood test with LC-MS for testosterone, sensitive test for E2, LH, FSH, and if you can spring for it prolactin.

Based on what it says, and how you feel now, you might get some better advice.

 

[Milton]

double what tankman says ^^^^^^^, absolutely need new bloods to see all your levels across the board. with that in hand proper advice can be given to get your johnson back in action.

 

[Ali.s5676]

Those test results don't make much sense, and don't match your symptoms. I'd suggest getting a new blood test with LC-MS for testosterone, sensitive test for E2, LH, FSH, and if you can spring for it prolactin.

Based on what it says, and how you feel now, you might get some better advice.

I think i'll run the pct u suggested anyway , and then the tests afterwards .

Kinda hard to get some good advice to be honest i'll keep u up . Thanks

 

[Milton]

I think i'll run the pct u suggested anyway , and then the tests afterwards .

Kinda hard to get some good advice to be honest i'll keep u up . Thanks

In all honesty its kind of hard to give you good advice since your cycle is all over the place brother AND you let someone else plan it out for you.

you have to do your own research and homework to get proper results and great gains and keep them. if ive said it 100 times i will say it again, these aint pie recipes that we are swapping here, this is your life, your long term health and most importantly your ability to reproduce and have a healthy relationship with your spouse. please keep us posted and hope it gets better.

 

[Ali.s5676]

In all honesty its kind of hard to give you good advice since your cycle is all over the place brother AND you let someone else plan it out for you.

you have to do your own research and homework to get proper results and great gains and keep them. if ive said it 100 times i will say it again, these aint pie recipes that we are swapping here, this is your life, your long term health and most importantly your ability to reproduce and have a healthy relationship with your spouse. please keep us posted and hope it gets better.

You're right bro , it was a mistake a huge one , i gusse i had to learn it the hard way .

I will start the second PCT next week and see if that works for me .

I'll be back as soon as i run the tests , thanks again guys .

 

[oldmusclemike]

In all honesty its kind of hard to give you good advice since your cycle is all over the place brother AND you let someone else plan it out for you.

you have to do your own research and homework to get proper results and great gains and keep them. if ive said it 100 times i will say it again, these aint pie recipes that we are swapping here, this is your life, your long term health and most importantly your ability to reproduce and have a healthy relationship with your spouse. please keep us posted and hope it gets better.

Jezz This ^^^^ really couldn't be said better.

 

[Ali.s5676]

One last question guys , suppose that i'm in a condition where i don't need hcg , won't this dose (1000iu/ED for 10 days) impact my test production?

I don't want to rush things and get even worse. I'm defiantly gonna get better i won't let this couple of years crush me , i'll find the way eventually but i just don't want to do anything stupid again .

 

[scorob777]

Blood testing will tell you that. If you re-test and have good LH and good testosterone, then the hcg won't do anything for you. If this is the case you also wouldn't benefit from doing a PCT again.

I re-read your post and you said you did testing again in June 2017. Can you post those results?

Your symptoms of no morning wood, weak erections, hard to maintain would seem to indicate low test, or possibly normal test and high estrogen, and/or possibly high prolactin. The puffy nipples seem to indicate high estrogen or maybe high prolactin.

We are just guessing without a recent test, and you taking letro without knowing what's going on seems sketchy.

 

[Ali.s5676]

....

 

[Ali.s5676]

Blood testing will tell you that. If you re-test and have good LH and good testosterone, then the hcg won't do anything for you. If this is the case you also wouldn't benefit from doing a PCT again.

I re-read your post and you said you did testing again in June 2017. Can you post those results?

Your symptoms of no morning wood, weak erections, hard to maintain would seem to indicate low test, or possibly normal test and high estrogen, and/or possibly high prolactin. The puffy nipples seem to indicate high estrogen or maybe high prolactin.

We are just guessing without a recent test, and you taking letro without knowing what's going on seems sketchy.

No bro i ran letro according to the tests (i thought it was the estrogen even tho it's still in range , but i match all the symptoms of high E2)

Here is the test i ran \

Pre-letro:
https://ibb.co/fMf6PQ

Post-letro:
https://ibb.co/goSmPQ

Difficulty in getting and mainting erections, never had a spontaneous erection since my last injection! Definitely not like before , tests says otherwise.

 

[scorob777]

Ok, I see what you mean. Agree that if I had the pre-letro results I would assume high E2, even though yours was not really that high.

Interesting what's going on with your LH, FSH, and test before and after letro.

The only other thing with your sides might be the prolactin, didn't look too high but was toward the higher end. I have come to believe libido, wood, etc are a function of ratios of test, estrogen, DHT, and prolactin - if not others. Seems like your ratios are out of whack.

Would be good for some real doctors to weigh in, they seem to haunt the TRT forum.

 

[Ali.s5676]

Ok, I see what you mean. Agree that if I had the pre-letro results I would assume high E2, even though yours was not really that high.

Interesting what's going on with your LH, FSH, and test before and after letro.

The only other thing with your sides might be the prolactin, didn't look too high but was toward the higher end. I have come to believe libido, wood, etc are a function of ratios of test, estrogen, DHT, and prolactin - if not others. Seems like your ratios are out of whack.

Would be good for some real doctors to weigh in, they seem to haunt the TRT forum.

Forgot to mention that when i was on letro i actually felt alot better about both (sex drive+gyno) even at the gym i could lift heavy waights easier than before , i literally felt alive.
Is that normal to feel when you're on letro ?
That made me more convinced that my estrogen was a bit high .
I don't know if that was psychological but it felt real so that's highly unlikely.

Sorry if i'm being a pain in the ass , there are too much information to tell.

Thank you again , i'll swing by the forum , hopefully things would get better .

 

[scorob777]

I'm not surprised you felt better on the letro, look at your figures - LH was through the roof, FSH was great, test was also through the roof.

Estrogen was too low, but not by that much. If I get that low I start to creak & pop and feel like I have arthritis in all my joints.

Might be worth just cutting your letro dose in half and see how you feel on that.

 

[Ali.s5676]

I posted the thread in the TRT forum 2 days ago , for some reason it's not there yet ***55357;***56837;

Is it possible that i'm turning too much testosteron into estrogen? I'm beginning to think it might be the aromatase

 

[T-RexAlpha]

I posted the thread in the TRT forum 2 days ago , for some reason it's not there yet ***55357;***56837;

Is it possible that i'm turning too much testosteron into estrogen? I'm beginning to think it might be the aromatase

Well in truth, I would have used my Adex or Aromasin, and if I still had sides of puffy nipples, etc. I would have just upped the dose. By all means, having Letro on hand was smart bro. And if you didnt get gyno, you go lucky, seriously when you dosed up to 1000mg. But Letro also kills Estrogen, and you body needs esteogen. But as Tank said, you could cut your letro dose in half

 

[Ali.s5676]

Well in truth, I would have used my Adex or Aromasin, and if I still had sides of puffy nipples, etc. I would have just upped the dose. By all means, having Letro on hand was smart bro. And if you didnt get gyno, you go lucky, seriously when you dosed up to 1000mg. But Letro also kills Estrogen, and you body needs esteogen. But as Tank said, you could cut your letro dose in half

First i needed to see how my body react on letro , the tests says i'm superman but doesn't feel that way , when i cut off letro gyno came back and was sore even more , Look i'm gonna explain what/why I did with letro :

First i ran letro for the first time bc i thought that my estrogen was the problem(was around the top range) and i mached all of high estrogen symptoms , so i ran it for 20 days , 2,5 ed then taber it off for the last few days . I should've had nolva on hand but i didn't think my estrogen will rebound. That was a mistake , You should know that i felt my best while on letro somwhere between day 5-10 , so when i ran a test after letro cleared from my system and i got back to where i was , that's when i calculated the change in my hormones and got a "Daily average change" i know it's not accurate but better then nothing, so what i did is i got back on letro and calculated how many days i need to get back to my "possible" perfect balance , i didn't wanna just run it without thinking or just taking random protocols. I do know it doesn't work that way but that was the only option i have. Anyway right now i'm done with letro and currently on nolva,gyno got alot better , there is a slight improvement in my sex drive but not worth mentioning , i'll run some tests as soon as i cut it off . Thank you