Endo is wanting me try Clomid

[Gibrone]

I was prescribed 100mg/wk test cyp by my urologist and It brought me up from low-mid 200's TT to 700+ and I have felt better except the fact that I have no kids/don't want to potentially ruin my ability to. I scheduled an appt with an endocrinologist and he had me stop doing injections, in a couple more weeks he wants me to take 2x50mg clomid per day for 10 days then do labs on the 10th day. After that I think he is going to have me try novarel then do labs again. I have only taken what was prescribed from my doctor which was 3mo of TRT(at 6 weeks w/o right now). I think the doc just wants to see what I react to so he can get a better idea of what's wrong and prescribe what suits me best. I just want to post what's happening since the day to start is coming up. Unfortunately my insurance doesn't cover it so I'll be paying out of pocket. Anybody know the best place to get it? I told them Walgreens, it's $58 for 20x50mg's, is that about as good as it gets?
The endo said what may end up happening is a combination of TRT with with something else but he wants to try the clomid by itself then the hcg. I'm just reciting what I heard, I want to make sure what he's doing sounds about right.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

If you want to ensure your sperm remains unnaffected why not just stay on TRT and add HCG to the protocol? If you qualified for TRT in the first place it seems silly to me that he's trying to get you off and restart with clomid... And i hope hes not planning on keeping you at 100mg of clomid daily after that initial ten day peroid.

Hopefully megatron will chime in here... He seems to be the bloodwork/trt expert on these boards. But in my opinion it just seems like a huge waste of time, money and gonna make you feel shitty again for a couple months. :/

 

[Gibrone]

oh crap, I didn't post this in the right forum, just realized that(oops)

I don't think he plans on keeping me at 100, he said it was only for 10 days, I think he just wants to see if my LH/FSH react since even with my TT in the 230's they were only LH-1.9 and FSH-2.4. I think he wants to see if my pituitary gland reacts to it. I'm guessing it'll be some sort of TRT/HCG combo in the end, he even mentioned that might happen but I guess he wants to investigate some stuff the urologist didn't do first. I mentioned that I had secondary and he said while it's most likely there's no for sure way to tell until he tests. The first couple weeks of no injections weren't so bad, I'm @ 6 weeks now and definitely feeling better than the last few weeks but I'm glad it's almost over. If a TRT/HCG combo will keep my fertility and him wanting to do clomid for 10 days is what it takes to get it I'll deal with it.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Doesn't matter, this board gets more traffic anyway. Worse case scenario a mod will move it.

Keep in mind I am no endocrinologist/urologist/doctor of any sort, but it just seems like a big waste of time and money at your expense to me. They really should have determined if you were primary or secondarily hypogonadal and if a restart was a possibilty BEFORE putting you on TRT.
Now that you've been on TRT for over 3 months your chances of a restart (if it was possible in the first place) are even slimmer.
At this point I see no benefit in him "testing your pituatry gland." TRT is a lifetime decision, its not something you do for 3 months, then decide oh we'll try a clomid therapy restart, etc.... I believe your case has been poorly handled at best.

In fact I can more or less tell you right now you WILL end up back on TRT including HCG. And if we know this already, why put you and your body through all the stress of coming off and going back on again? Plus re-dialing in with the added HCG.

But.. Like I said, i am no medical professional and these are just my thoughts.. I would love to hear what megatrons thoughts are on this.

Best of luck to you anyhow mate hope it gets sorted quickly!

 

[Gibrone]

I'm with ya there. I pretty much went in there hoping to get prescribed HCG without having to go to the anti aging clinic. My GP said the endo most likely wouldn't do it and actually recommended I went to the anti aging guy but I figured I'd give it a shot first. It turns out, with my age he is actually willing to so that's promising since one of my insurance options actually covers fertility meds. I won't be able to sign up for the new plan until the end of the year but I'd love to have the HCG covered and prescribed by an endo. We had 2 anti aging doctors in this area until recently where one got shut down so we're down to 1, that's not a route I want to go unless I have to. It's been pretty crappy but I'm doing better now. Besides, I can tell I'm getting pudgy which sucks because I actually stepped up my cardio to avoid it. Maybe the endo doesn't like when a urologist deals with hormones so he needs to do it his way, I just hope I can get HCG prescribed. I'm 34 with no kids yet so I want to keep the option there. Being on straight TRT was causing some depression in itself. I don't mind supplementing but I don't want to throw my fertility away when I can feel just as good and keep it. Once I have 1 or 2 though, I will let the HCG go

 

[PrinceDianabol]

TRT doesn't cause depression.... Low T does. You may have had either high or low estrogen in that case. You should have felt 1000x better being on TRT. Did they give you copies of any of your bloodwork? Post them up if you can..

Hate to say it but it really doesn't sound like they've been managing you well. You should feel on top of the world with TRT dialed in properly, and there should never be a reason to come off... These are alarm bells to me...

You don't have any other endos/urologists in the area you can get a second opinion from?

 

[Gibrone]

oh no, that came across wrong. I felt better across the board with TRT, I just have always planned to have kids at some point and I want to find a way to do that and still feel good. I separated those 2 sentences about age and no kids with the TRT causing depression wrong. I was trying to say while I felt much better, I hated the fact that my chances at having kids is diminished. It's late and I just can't think/type very well
I hope that makes more sense

I went to another Urologist who doesn't like TRT, so I went to the endo. I could tell the second urologist and I wouldn't click which is why I never seen him again. The Urologist who prescribed TRT is good/willing to help but he never seemed concerned to check e2 levels when I brought that up numerous times which is the only reason I doubt him at all. It just seems he thinks differently than everybody here. Even if it's only 100mg/wk test cyp I'd feel better to know he's monitoring everything. There is no other close by endo's here, I'm pretty limited here. The one I'm seeing actually leaves the state for another job in a bigger area in a couple months which sucks. There's 2 physicians assistants there and there will be a replacement endo soon I'm sure, I guess I'll have to see what happens. He said if we don't finish before he leaves he'll setup a plan for another doc to follow, even my Urologist or GP if they'd want to take it over. I'd prefer GP, I think he's a TRT patient himself, plus the copay is less and he's maybe 1/5 the distance away

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Aaah okay, yes that definetly makes much more sense lol. Yeah HCG should help in that department. Alternatively, and your best/safest optiom realisticall would be to have a sample taken now and stored for future. Just in case
I believe even with HCG its not 100%... There is still some risk. Very minimal though I think, there are heaps of members here that have conceived multiple children whilst on some really heavy cycles lol.

 

[Gibrone]

I know the last test was just TT, and it was 241, the one before that was TT, LH, FSH, I had 239 TT, 1.9 LH, 2.4 FSH. Before that was my physical and there I had 256 TT, e2 has never been checked, FSH, and LH have only been checked the once. There was 1 time a couple years ago I actually got 311 or 312 for TT. I think the endo will do much more thorough checks, I'll post them but that won't be for a while, he's having me start that 10 day clomid cycle on march 24th, labs on Apr 3rd so I'll gladly post those up when I get them

 

[PrinceDianabol]

Okay, well it would appear that you have secondary hypogonadism, which means a restart is possible. However, I think your chances now will be much harder to restart given you have just spent three+ months completely suppressed.

If you can get a copy of your bloodwork after your ten days on clomid therapy post it up please I'd love to see what it does for you. Keep in mind though even if it does stimulate your pituatry, after cessation of clomid your FSH and LH values will likely fall to a hypogonadal state again. What will determine if you can be restarted is if they remain high enough after clomid therapy has ceased.

 

[PrinceDianabol]

bump for megatron

 

[Megatron28]

Good luck Gibrone. You should know that lots of guys have gotten their wives/girlfriends pregnant while on TRT or running cycles. Sperm are pretty resilient.

Taking HCG will help keep your testicles functioning better while on TRT. You should push to add that to you protocol.

It sounds like maybe you didn't get started on TRT the right way given that you still want to have kids so your new Endo is probably just being cautious and covering the bases. It doesn't look like he is trying to do a restart protocol with you. It seems more like he is just trying to confirm that you have Secondary Hypogonadism.

 

[Alpin]

I know the last test was just TT, and it was 241, the one before that was TT, LH, FSH, I had 239 TT, 1.9 LH, 2.4 FSH. Before that was my physical and there I had 256 TT, e2 has never been checked, FSH, and LH have only been checked the once. There was 1 time a couple years ago I actually got 311 or 312 for TT. I think the endo will do much more thorough checks, I'll post them but that won't be for a while, he's having me start that 10 day clomid cycle on march 24th, labs on Apr 3rd so I'll gladly post those up when I get them

These are bare baseline levels ?
No AI, No clomid with these numbers you are providing us here ?

 

[Gibrone]

yes, those are all baseline before ever taking any kind of supplement. After 6 weeks of 100mg/wk I was @ 756 TT and no other tests since then. I'll be doing my next labs on the 3rd and I'll post them as soon as I get them.

 

[Alpin]

how old r u again ?
Are you working out eating well and in a healthy BMI ?
Get a sleep study done.
Take at least 50 mg Zinc Picolinate ED and high quality COMPLETE Vit. E.....
I don't see why clomid wont work for you with pituitary hormones like that.

 

[Gibrone]

34, I eat lots of produce & meat (mostly venison/elk/antelope) with very little of that processed meat. I swim 5 days a week, for strength maybe 2 days a week I'll do some dips/leg lifts/push ups sit ups etc., I'm good about my cardio though. I'm 5'11" 195lbs, no idea about BMI but I'm not really lean or obese. I'd say I could lose 20lbs though. For vitamins I take ON Opti-Men multi-vitamins, fish oil and 2000iu Vitamin D. I do have sleep apnea, I use a cpap most nights. I got the cpap after I was prescribed TRT so not sure how much it helps in that dept. If clomid alone gets me back to how the TRT was making me feel, I'll be content taking that even if insurance doesn't cover it. My well being is one of those things I don't mind spending $ on. I felt good with the higher T but being 34 with no kids and still unsure if I'm going to, I want to keep the option there so I hope the clomid works

 

[Alpin]

Clomid might not give the same feeling like T shots did. Give it a try. But clomid is not really a viable long term treatment plan for hypogonadism. It's a short term treatment option used to restart your pituitary. It can cause vision problems in the long term if used too high a dose....all dependent on person too. It's a dual isomer SERM, and it does help increase endogenous Testosterone. The new drug ANDROXAL that is in the final stages now for FDA approval is only contains enclomiphene (single isomer)....
this is the male clomid version and is only composed of 1 isomer (enclomiphene)....
in its trials it has caused less low libido symptoms than clomid has....

 

[Alpin]

what dose of clomid and for how long does your doc want you to run this for ?
At least he offered you this option....most docs won't prescribe it because it is "off label"

 

[Gibrone]

Well I guess I don't really understand what clomid really is then but it's unimportant. Endo wants me to take it, nobody here opposes (other than the order of things between the 2 docs) so I'll do as he wishes. I appreciate your guys' replies

 

[Alpin]

I read your prior posts....
what dose is it for the 10 days ?
There are way better restart programs out there like IMT has.
But try this though.