Evidence to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during cycle

[DocJ]

Evidence to use HCG during cycle

Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression.Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Herbst KL, Amory JK, Anawalt BD, Sutton PR, Wright WW, Brown TR, Yan X, Zirkin BR, Jarow JP.
Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle, Washington 98195, USA. a-coviello@northwestern.edu

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

PMID: 15713727 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[GymLift]

Yes, I was really excited when this study came out because it proved a theory that I had; that hCG does not show FSH-like activity as suggested by the hCG package insert but that exogenous testosterone is unable to reach the leydig/sertoli cells due to blood barrier.

 

[Trevdog]

Great study. It would appear that at least 500 ius of HCG per week is adviseable, maybe more. I wish they had included a group or groups that received more than 500 ius of hcg, I'd be curious to know at what point its stimulation of intratesticular testosterone production levels out.

 

[mikeyt869]

would it be bad to run between 5 and 600 iu a week of hcg while on for say 12 weeks? I have always been under the impression that it was used the last month of the cycle followed by a normal pct.

 

[macro]

good find, had not seen that study

 

[LAWNSAVER]

Swale's not so stupid after all.

Not saying I thought so, as I followed his post cycle therapy (pct) protocol and loved it, but many didnt think he was right.

I guess I keep doing what I've been doing

 

[GymLift]

would it be bad to run between 5 and 600 iu a week of hcg while on for say 12 weeks? I have always been under the impression that it was used the last month of the cycle followed by a normal pct.

Most of us recommend 300-500iu of hCG every 3-5 days during the cycle cycle, discontinuing just prior to PCT.

 

[Maxgain]

should be posted as a sticky on every single anabolic board.

 

[stg]

lets pretend i know nothing at all why would this be helpful and could someone explain it in english
i understand the basic principle of how it helps i just never saw the need for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or a post cycle therapy (pct)
i always let my body react and return to normal by itself, other words i never used any of this cause i felt no need to. i don't get sides no lack of sleep or being tired no loss of sex or over sex no gyno no flu i measn when i say nothing i mean i don't get anything but big and strong
as for keeping what i gain the only reason why i loose anything is because i get lazy or personal things hold me from going to the gym

so a little eye opener about this stuff if you can

 

[mwm5]

i really wish my source(s) would start to carry Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) so i could pick some up DAMN IT!

 

[GymLift]

lets pretend i know nothing at all why would this be helpful and could someone explain it in english
i understand the basic principle of how it helps i just never saw the need for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or a post cycle therapy (pct)
i always let my body react and return to normal by itself, other words i never used any of this cause i felt no need to. i don't get sides no lack of sleep or being tired no loss of sex or over sex no gyno no flu i measn when i say nothing i mean i don't get anything but big and strong
as for keeping what i gain the only reason why i loose anything is because i get lazy or personal things hold me from going to the gym

so a little eye opener about this stuff if you can

During an Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycle, the hypothalmus becomes suppressed. The hypothalmus stops stimulating the pituitary to produce LH and FSH. Since due to the reduction of LH, the leydig cells (the cells in your balls that make testosterone) aren't stimulated. And from this study we find that testosterone from the leydig cells is necessary for the sertoli cells (they make sperm). As a whole, this is known as the HPTA: Hypothalmus pituitary testicular axis.

In order to recover, the entire HPTA must resume normal function. All three parts need to resume their work. But after things haven't been used, it is sometimes harder to get them going again.

Well, the HP part of the HPTA is going to become suppressed during a cycle. There just isn't much that we can do about that. However, by using hCG, the leydig cells don't have to shut down. You see, as far as the leydig cells are concerned, hCG and LH are the same thing. If you inject hCG, then the hCG will stimulate your leydig cells to produce testosterone during a time when you body isn't sending it the LH that it normally sends.

That testosterone produced by the leydig cells allows the sertoli cells to produce sperm, too.

In the end, we keep the testes working so that we don't have to worry about them recovering post cycle. Many men, especially those on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), also report a stronger feeling of well being while using hCG.

This is an ultra-brief summary to answer your question. Sorry if I missed a few details or if it is confusing, but if you want more details, then its your turn to do some homework.

 

[tommbstone]

Great study.

 

[stg]

mranak that helped some andi get the idae and just so you know i will do my own homework on this one
thanks

 

[tommbstone]

I was talking with a friend of mine on this study and we thought of was

this study is interesting..HOWEVER.. the experimental group was only taking
200 mg's ethanate.. ... no where near a cycle dose that any bb takes. Not that I think its gonna change these results... but they also didnt report estrogen levels (or
even take them) and how much they increased compared to placebo group. I
would bet it does significantly.

just my thoughts on the estrogen side of things. but hey if my balls start working and i need to take nolvadex .... so be it

 

[LAWNSAVER]

I was talking with a friend of mine on this study and we thought of was

this study is interesting..HOWEVER.. the experimental group was only taking
200 mg's ethanate.. ... no where near a cycle dose that any bb takes. Not that I think its gonna change these results... but they also didnt report estrogen levels (or
even take them) and how much they increased compared to placebo group. I
would bet it does significantly.

just my thoughts on the estrogen side of things. but hey if my balls start working and i need to take nolvadex .... so be it

Swale has all the lab results anyone needs. This is how he prescribes Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to is clients. Small doses all the way through.

I have run this protocol and never had any gyno issues.

 

[roccodart440]

Swale's not so stupid after all.

Not saying I thought so, as I followed his post cycle therapy (pct) protocol and loved it, but many didnt think he was right.

I guess I keep doing what I've been doing

I like how this study reinforces the low dose recomendation swale makes and not hitting higher dosed hcg.

The only problme I saw and experienced while following swales protocol is the nolvadex only post cycle therapy (pct). IMO and IME clomid is a neccessity