Experience with long esters? (Nebido)

[TR2838]

No doubt that is correct, my main problem however is convincing someone to treat me like that here, nebido is my 1st injection of any testosterone after 3 months of messing around on Androgel.

Im gonna write down exactly how i feel each day over the next 10 weeks until the blood test and if I do feel worst towards those last few weeks I will ofc be arguing the case again.

ok best of luck vigilante.. I'm sorry to hear of your depression.. Believe me, I know how it feels to be depressed! Sometimes I forget how lucky I am to be able to get proper treatment. I don't mean to get you more depressed by arguing with you. I
hope you can get them to reduce the intervals between shots.. Good luck!

 

[ozcat]

wow 6 weeks isnt good at all.

just like any test its best to try and keep frequent injections to keep the levels stable. with longer esters you can get away with spacing them out farther. since the halflife is around 21 days you could prob do every week injections and have very stable levels.

wow 6 weeks isnt good at all.

just like any test its best to try and keep frequent injections to keep the levels stable. with longer esters you can get away with spacing them out farther. since the halflife is around 21 days you could prob do every week injections and have very stable levels.

I agree.. I would not go with this protocol.. You will experience extreme hormonal swings. I would say it's better to have constant low T than go through that roller coater ride. In my opinion: Dont do it unless you get ATLEAST once a month shots

typical American's response, 'we dont have, it doesnt work'

Nebido works perfectly well, there wont be a 'roller coaster' ride. its a slow release suspended in castor oil.
your equations of half life are completely wrong, try understanding something before you denounce it.

 

[J-MO-TECH]

Wassup guys,

As you may have read on other topics, I started Nebido 1000 mg injections this morning.

Does anyone have any experience of using this injection?

From what I understand my doctor is planning on checking levels at 10 weeks but he didnt say yet if he would inject again at 6 weeks like it says to do for the loading phase.

Im wondering if he wouldnt do the load due to switching from Testogel which had me at 18.2nmol?

also for anyone that has used what kind of levels did you have in weeks 10-11-12? before the next injection.

Vigilante,
Your question got me to join, or the negative responses you got,... all to some real simple questions. Not a big poster myself.

I have not used nebido, as its has not been approved for use in the states. Seems to be a lot of UK guys on it though, and most rave about it. One in particular who is an absolute AAS data base of knowledge, seems to love it.

Yes, Id guess the skipped front loading was due to you already being on the gel, if your doc is conservative. Being from the UK im sure they are all when it comes to HRT!!. Again, I don't know how nebido works personally, but I do know Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) in the UK is totally different than here. We have it lucky here in the US with test.

Ive been researching and using AAS since 2002, im no expert but not a newb either, currently getting ready to order my second protocoll....and yes I am powered by Maximus!

 

[Vigilante]

thanks for the replys guys, just had some bloods taken last week should be getting the result 2moro, did phone up today but I couldnt get an appointment but according to the receptionist my doc wanted me to make an appointment regarding the result.

The way im feeling it cant possibly be too high, im back to feeling tired, not quite as bad as before but still not as good as a few weeks ago. Potentially I could get a loading dose im about 6.5 weeks in right now.

other symptoms that have returned somewhat are:

Less Night/Morning Errections, Premature Ejaculation, Broken Sleep/Insomnia.

One thing that bothers me somewhat at the moment is I seem to do or feel better just after starting a treatment suggesting im much better near the upper range then the middle. but my doctor seems to want me in the middle of the range iv heard a few reasons from him but the one that sticks is high leads to prostate problems....from what I have read from many sources that is total and utter bollocks. Most studies were done on patients with Low T from what I understand Low T itself is a far greater risk to prostate problems then high T.

Ill update here again 2moro, im going to ask to see an endocrinologist too and also try to dig deeper into the actual cause of the low T which for me is the operation for cryptorchidism.

 

[ozcat]

thanks for the replys guys, just had some bloods taken last week should be getting the result 2moro, did phone up today but I couldnt get an appointment but according to the receptionist my doc wanted me to make an appointment regarding the result.

The way im feeling it cant possibly be too high, im back to feeling tired, not quite as bad as before but still not as good as a few weeks ago. Potentially I could get a loading dose im about 6.5 weeks in right now.

other symptoms that have returned somewhat are:

Less Night/Morning Errections, Premature Ejaculation, Broken Sleep/Insomnia.

One thing that bothers me somewhat at the moment is I seem to do or feel better just after starting a treatment suggesting im much better near the upper range then the middle. but my doctor seems to want me in the middle of the range iv heard a few reasons from him but the one that sticks is high leads to prostate problems....from what I have read from many sources that is total and utter bollocks. Most studies were done on patients with Low T from what I understand Low T itself is a far greater risk to prostate problems then high T.

Ill update here again 2moro, im going to ask to see an endocrinologist too and also try to dig deeper into the actual cause of the low T which for me is the operation for cryptorchidism.

im up mid month for an appoint with an endo. id been self administering testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for 25mths and my doc has sent me in for a specialist opinion. had my last shot of 150mg test e on xmas day and dreading the low/no test feeling on its way next week

i wont accept anything less than nebido when i see the endo. i know of afew on it and they cant recommend it enough.

 

[Frustrated1]

typical American's response, 'we dont have, it doesnt work'

Nebido works perfectly well, there wont be a 'roller coaster' ride. its a slow release suspended in castor oil.
your equations of half life are completely wrong, try understanding something before you denounce it.

It sounds like your estrogen is high.

We are lucky to have what we have. According to the medical documentation...

half life of 90±40 days. After the 1st intramuscular injection of 1000 mg testosterone undecanoate to hypogonadal men, mean Cmax values of 38 nmol/L (11 ng/mL) were obtained after 7 days. The second dose was administered 6 weeks after the 1st injection and maximum testosterone concentrations of about 50 nmol/L (15 ng/mL) were reached. A constant dosing interval of 10 weeks was maintained during the following 3 administrations and steady-state conditions were achieved between the 3rd and the 5th administration. Mean Cmax and Cmin values of testosterone at steady-state were about 37 (11 ng/mL) and 16 nmol/L (5 ng/mL), respectively. The median intra- and inter-individual variability (coefficient of variation, %) of Cmin values was 22 % (range: 9-28%) and 34% (range: 25-48%), respectively.

 

[Misc]

typical American's response, 'we dont have, it doesnt work'

Nebido works perfectly well, there wont be a 'roller coaster' ride. its a slow release suspended in castor oil.
your equations of half life are completely wrong, try understanding something before you denounce it.

Hmmm... ok you say im wrong but then you provide nothing to prove your point. ok yeah is suspended in castolr oil... tell me what is the true half life of undeca in castor oil?

Also i never said it doesn't work. i really don't care what the half life is. the fact is more frequent injection regardless of the ester will give more stable blood levels.

BTW you quoted me but broke the code to make it look like i said stuff that i did not.

 

[ozcat]

It sounds like your estrogen is high.

We are lucky to have what we have. According to the medical documentation...

half life of 90±40 days. After the 1st intramuscular injection of 1000 mg testosterone undecanoate to hypogonadal men, mean Cmax values of 38 nmol/L (11 ng/mL) were obtained after 7 days. The second dose was administered 6 weeks after the 1st injection and maximum testosterone concentrations of about 50 nmol/L (15 ng/mL) were reached. A constant dosing interval of 10 weeks was maintained during the following 3 administrations and steady-state conditions were achieved between the 3rd and the 5th administration. Mean Cmax and Cmin values of testosterone at steady-state were about 37 (11 ng/mL) and 16 nmol/L (5 ng/mL), respectively. The median intra- and inter-individual variability (coefficient of variation, %) of Cmin values was 22 % (range: 9-28%) and 34% (range: 25-48%), respectively.

not at all thanks

 

[ozcat]

Hmmm... ok you say im wrong but then you provide nothing to prove your point. ok yeah is suspended in castolr oil... tell me what is the true half life of undeca in castor oil?

Also i never said it doesn't work. i really don't care what the half life is. the fact is more frequent injection regardless of the ester will give more stable blood levels.

BTW you quoted me but broke the code to make it look like i said stuff that i did not.

do you not think it would be done this way if this was true?

you gave the half life as 21 days. not true, its 40 days. there is a loading phase to reach optimal levels and then blood work will show how often the patient needs maintenance injections, usually between 9-12wks

i dont mind EW injections but if i can get away with 9-12wk intervals then im in, makes planning travel etc alot easier......

 

[Frustrated1]

do you not think it would be done this way if this was true?

Yes I do, they will do whatever is cheapest, not always what's best. At least that's what they do in the US, and I seriously doubt that it's any different in your country.

you gave the half life as 21 days. not true, its 40 days.

90±40 days, so 50-130.

i dont mind EW injections but if i can get away with 9-12wk intervals then im in, makes planning travel etc alot easier......

A constant dosing interval of 10 weeks is standard protocol. I can certainly understand the want to go 2 1/2 months between shots.

Misc is absolutely correct about less more frequent being more stable T levels. That's just how it works.

The real question is, what else are they prescribing for the rest of your HRT protocol so that you are getting the most out of your T, and feeling your best?

 

[Vigilante]

Yes I do, they will do whatever is cheapest, not always what's best. At least that's what they do in the US, and I seriously doubt that it's any different in your country.


90±40 days, so 50-130.


A constant dosing interval of 10 weeks is standard protocol. I can certainly understand the want to go 2 1/2 months between shots.

Misc is absolutely correct about less more frequent being more stable T levels. That's just how it works.

The real question is, what else are they prescribing for the rest of your HRT protocol so that you are getting the most out of your T, and feeling your best?

haha in the uk? the doctors here are bloody clueless just getting extra blood tests like e2 is like getting blood from stones.

Its that crazy infact I have been on treatment for a few months now and if I asked what % of my Test is free they would have no fucking idea.

Come to the conclusion the teaching for their degrees here is from textbooks from the dinosaur age.

 

[RelaxTheBody]

I hear members here saying more fequent injection intervals are always better, but this depends on the product.

Test e is injected weekly, and this generally keeps fairly stable levels. But as has been said nebido has a much longer ester and as such it would be pointless to administer nebido at a rate similar to that conventionally carried out with test e.

Guys who have been on test e weekly or something equivalent have to open their minds to new advances in medicine and not place nebido in the same class as test e or cyp because frankly it is far superior, and the studys show this to be true.

When i first started studying forums on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), i found guys telling people that nebido was no use because of the 10 wk intervals and that weekly injections were superior. As such this was what i thought and was arguing with my endo in favour of the weekly test e. But upon further reading and studying of the subject i have discovered that i was wrong, and most of the advice regarding weekly injects was coming from the US guys. When speaking to UK guys who have been on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) they have told me it has changed their lives. They get the same treatment and benefits that they had for all of those years on test e or cyp without the hinderance of regular injectionns!

Have a look at this link, and click on "view presentation" to view an informative little slide show on it.

agingmale2006.com/abstracts/abs_sag_nebido_hypogonadal_men.asp

and for this presentation also

agingmale2006.com/transcripts/transcript_sag_long-acting_vs_standard_testosterone.asp

The above shows some good graphs establishing the half life of test undeca, also this is a reasonable study carried out over approx 9 years if my memory serves me correctly.

Some further reading for board members to educate themselfs further if the interest is there are provided below.

Endocrine society journal

jcem.endojournals.org/content/89/11/5429.full

drugs.com/nda/nebido_070828.html

 

[Vigilante]

Interesting really that the trough levels were getting higher after each injection like a build up in the body.

Iv got an appointment this evening but not with my usual doctor but if im anywhere near the teens im gonna push hard for the loading dose.

 

[ozcat]

Yes I do, they will do whatever is cheapest, not always what's best. At least that's what they do in the US, and I seriously doubt that it's any different in your country.


90±40 days, so 50-130.


A constant dosing interval of 10 weeks is standard protocol. I can certainly understand the want to go 2 1/2 months between shots.

Misc is absolutely correct about less more frequent being more stable T levels. That's just how it works.

The real question is, what else are they prescribing for the rest of your HRT protocol so that you are getting the most out of your T, and feeling your best?

mis-typed, meant to hit 50 as the minimum.

the point on stable levels and frequency applies to esters falling into their range, nebido isnt comparable to test e or c, how can misc say that levels wont be steady? its a longer slow release and stabilises levels just fine.

afaik one nebido test subject had a reaction similar to that broscience favourite 'tren cough' and thats why it isnt available in the US, pretty dumb reason considering it was most probably due to a nicked blood vessel on injection

im new here but most def not new to AAS.

 

[ozcat]

haha in the uk? the doctors here are bloody clueless just getting extra blood tests like e2 is like getting blood from stones.

Its that crazy infact I have been on treatment for a few months now and if I asked what % of my Test is free they would have no fucking idea.

Come to the conclusion the teaching for their degrees here is from textbooks from the dinosaur age.

its a new doc that you need mate. mine tests everything just fine. sometimes you need to just tell them exactly what you want tested.

alot of americans seem better off in this regard for the simple reason tht most use these 'for purpose' (similar to anti ageing clinics becoming more prevalent here) clinics tht will set them up testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) and sell them anything regardless. testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) for us is from a strictly governed health system, thts why its more difficult to get sorted.

 

[Vigilante]

Blood test at 5 weeks - Testosterone 8.7 nmol (9-29)

Dr is sending me to an endocrinologist in his words "hes never seen a level drop like that after only 5 weeks of Nebido" he thinks im metabolizing too fast.

Also hes put me in for another shot but the soonest I can get is Monday.

uff

 

[J-MO-TECH]

Blood test at 5 weeks - Testosterone 8.7 nmol (9-29)

Dr is sending me to an endocrinologist in his words "hes never seen a level drop like that after only 5 weeks of Nebido" he thinks im metabolizing too fast.

Also hes put me in for another shot but the soonest I can get is Monday.

uff

Could be a 1 out of 20 off test, id draw blood once more before I assumed levels dropped, but at least hes giving you the loading dose now!

 

[Vigilante]

So just had my 2nd shot this morning, nurse again very inexperienced with injecting test, seemed to inject all 4ml in 20 seconds...although no pain or bleeding from the injection site.

the last week leading up to this however I have been very very tired I have never slept like this in my life before, tired to point that when its 8am and I have been asleep 9 hours or so I still can hardly open my eyes.

I also went to a wedding about 1 week ago and had a few drinks and since then I have that hungover feeling non stop.

Feel like a guinea pig really, be glad when I see a specialist but Im not holding much hope of that happening fast...not in this area where I live probably months away.

 

[Vigilante]

Ok.

Here it goes...those who questioned if Nebido was any good at the 10-12 week intervals were damn right to question it.

Second injection took me to 13 nmol/l (8.6-29.0) after 8 weeks.

Re-injected on 9 weeks 3 days, its just a bloody rollercoaster, at around the 6 week mark im falling asleep after workouts and just generally feeling tired which progresses more and more each day until im fully in zombie pissed off mood.

Endo appointment is on 30th March and this is one rollercoaster I intend to get the hell off. If he wont go another route ill do it D.I.Y style.

for anyone reading if your quack says Nebido do a runner imo.

 

[Artyi]

Ok.

Here it goes...those who questioned if Nebido was any good at the 10-12 week intervals were damn right to question it.

Second injection took me to 13 nmol/l (8.6-29.0) after 8 weeks.

Re-injected on 9 weeks 3 days, its just a bloody rollercoaster, at around the 6 week mark im falling asleep after workouts and just generally feeling tired which progresses more and more each day until im fully in zombie pissed off mood.

Endo appointment is on 30th March and this is one rollercoaster I intend to get the hell off. If he wont go another route ill do it D.I.Y style.

for anyone reading if your quack says Nebido do a runner imo.

Hi Vigilante,

I read your post about Nebido. You wrote that you had an appointment on the 30th of March. How did it go?

I was prescribed with Nebido and it is still in my desk, because at the moment I'm on Test E. Feeling Ok. But I get it illegal, as in our country only legal tests are sustanon and nebido. I did lots of research on it and most of them write about negativ things using it.

What is your opinion? How is it going? is it worth it trying? Or I should stay on test e?

My Test serum injecting 250mg a week is 25nmol/l (range: 9-30nmol/l).
Read your results, so you are somehow reaching upper level really slowly, how is it at the moment?