Totally freaked out right now about Nebido

[reff]

Hello,
I am extremely scared and depressed right now.
I suffer from low T. I tried various gels and they didn't really deliver and they also raised my DHT way too high which isn't healthy.

My doc said I can either now go to Nebido or to 250mg every 2-3 weeks. I don't want to have to get an injection every 2-3 weeks and I also dont want the spikes.
Nebido is the only option left cause self-injections are no option cause my doc won't support it and I'd also be too scared of it.

I was really happy and looking forwards to Nebido. I even asked my doc about embolisms cause this worried me. He said this is no issue and that the oil amount is
too small to be dangerous.

And now I read the warnings here about microembolisms and shocks and that the long term effects of embolisms are not known!

GREAT!!!! So this means that even if it doesn't kill you then we still dont know what harm the oil does in the body. I mean where does it go? To the brain?

I am so worried now. I have no clue what to do now.

I was putting so much hope into nebido and finally getting high,stable T levels. And now this. This makes me feel terrible.

I am anxious by nature and after reading this I dont think I can get the injection. I'd get a panic attack right in the office.

And what's also totally scary is that I read here that shocks can happen at any injections. How is this possible? I mean if you're allergic then this should happen
right away and not after the 10th injection or so.

 

[Mprtz]

Not sure where you read the warnings about embolisms, but the oil would have to be injected into a blood vessel in quantity to do any harm. You are going to be injected in an area which is known to be free of major blood vessels (glutes I'm guessing.).

While I don't know enough about Nebido to say that there is no risk, I'm almost certain you're fears are way overboard.

 

[reff]

Hello,
I am worried my fears are legit. I found the stuff on this forum!

The warnings sound extremely scary.

"Aveed's Black Box Warning:
WARNING: SERIOUS PULMONARY OIL MICROEMBOLISM (POME) REACTIONS AND ANAPHYLAXIS
--Serious POME reactions, involving urge to cough, dyspnea, throat tightening, chest pain, dizziness, and syncope; and episodes of anaphylaxis, including life-threatening reactions, have been reported to occur during or immediately after the administration of testosterone undecanoate injection. These reactions can occur after any injection of testosterone undecanoate during the course of therapy, including after the first dose.

--Following each injection of AVEED (testosterone undecanoate) injection, for intramuscular use CIII, observe patients in the healthcare setting for 30 minutes in order to provide appropriate medical treatment in the event of serious POME reactions or anaphylaxis.

--Because of the risks of serious POME reactions and anaphylaxis, AVEED is available only through a restricted program under a Risk Evaluation and Mitigation Strategy (REMS) called the AVEED REMS Program".

The FDA considered not just Endo's lone, rather small research study (N=141), but also post-marketing adverse event data from Europe, where Aveed (Nebido) has been approved for a number of years:
internalmedicinenews.com/...e=98&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=142661&cHash=da03e20e36
An FDA review of 199 postmarketing cases of POME, between November 2003 and April 2012, determined that 84 were severe, with severe dyspnea, loss of consciousness, circulatory collapse, or loss of bowel function. Many cases started as the medication was being injected. Although no deaths were reported, the long-term cardiopulmonary effects of severe cases or chronic effects of repeated less-severe episodes are not known, according to the FDA. During 2003-2011, there were 53 postmarketing cases of anaphylaxis reported, using a conservative definition.

 

[reff]

What does this mean?
This means that if you should get side effects after an injection then you have NO way of knowing if this may cause permanent damage.

Or imagine you get side effects every now and then after an injection, what then? How do you know if you need to stop then cause it's getting too much?

What happens to the oil which gets into the blood? What if it sticks to a blood vessel and narrows it? Or what if it travels to the brain and remains there?

Damn. I feel so bad now.

 

[Megatron28]

That is a risk with any injection. Period.

It is an extremely small risk and one you should not worry about. Nothing will happen to you with a properly done intramuscular injection.

Sounds like you have a bit of an anxiety problem. Perhaps you should get on a testosterone gel if you are hypogonadal.

 

[reff]

Gels do not work for me! And I get hair loss from them cause they raise my DHT way above normal.

I am so shocked right now cause my doc who I specifically asked about embolisms made it look like it's NO risk at all!

And now I read these warnings and that so and so many patients collapsed and got shocks. This sounds damn scary.

What do I do now? I am so anxious now that I will probably get a panic attack right during the injection.

I mean if there is no risk at all cause doctors know how and where to injection then WHY do we have these cases of microembolisms?
Did all the docs inject wrong in these cases? This makes no sense. What if they injected correctly and it still simply happened?

 

[Megatron28]

Gels do not work for me! And I get hair loss from them cause they raise my DHT way above normal.

You could have pellets surgically implanted in your body. But there are risks as well with any surgery.

There are risks when you cross the street too. You might get hit by a bus.

Injections are your safest option. Self injecting test cyp would be the easiest, safest and cheapest option. Can you find a case where anyone has been injured by doing an IM or SubQ injection of test cyp? Have you considered doing the injections SubQ? It means more frequent pinning, but you might fins this option more tolerable.

 

[Megatron28]

Gels do not work for me! And I get hair loss from them cause they raise my DHT way above normal.

I am so shocked right now cause my doc who I specifically asked about embolisms made it look like it's NO risk at all!

And now I read these warnings and that so and so many patients collapsed and got shocks. This sounds damn scary.

What do I do now? I am so anxious now that I will probably get a panic attack right during the injection.

I mean if there is no risk at all cause doctors know how and where to injection then WHY do we have these cases of microembolisms?
Did all the docs inject wrong in these cases? This makes no sense. What if they injected correctly and it still simply happened?

They are just covering their ass for legal reasons. Do you take medications in pill forms knowing that they could cause an allergic reaction? Have you read the disclaimers of potential risks when you take aspirin? Sounds like pretty scary stuff. Comas? Cardiovascular Collapse and Respiratory Failure!


SIDE EFFECTS AND SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS:
Concomitant therapy with other gastric irritants, such as non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents may increase the risk of gastric irritation. Aspirin may increase the risk of gastrointestinal bleeding when taken simultaneously with corticosteroids or alcohol. BAYER ASPIRIN should be used with caution in patients who are hypersensitive to other anti-inflammatory agents or allergens. BAYER ASPIRIN should be withdrawn one week before surgery because of the possibility of increasing the bleeding times. Some persons, especially asthmatics, those with chronic urticaria, or chronic rhinitis, exhibit notable sensitivity to aspirin which may provoke various hypersensitivity reactions which may include skin eruptions, urticaria, angioedema, paroxysmal bronchospasm and dyspnoea.
Dizziness, irritation of the gastric mucosa and resultant dyspepsia, nausea, vomiting, erosion, ulceration, haematemesis, and melaena may occur. It should be administered with caution to patients with impaired renal function, in the presence of severe liver disease, in patients with a history of gastrointestinal disorders such as peptic ulcers, ulcerative colitis and Crohn***8217;s disease, dyspepsia, anaemia and when the patient is dehydrated.
Aspirin may enhance the activity of coumarin anti-coagulants, methotrexate, oral anti-diabetic preparations, valproic acid and sulphonamides.
Aspirin diminishes the effects of anti-gout preparations such as probenecid and sulphinpyrazone. Barbiturates and other sedatives may mask the respiratory symptoms of aspirin overdosage and have been reported to enhance its toxicity.
Prolonged use of high doses may lead to anaemia, blood dyscrasia, gastro-intestinal haemorrhage, and peptic ulceration.
Interference with laboratory tests:
Salicylates may produce falsely increased results for blood creatinine, urate (low dose aspirin) and urea. Falsely decreased results may be obtained for blood thyroxine and urate (>4g / day aspirin) and for urinary 5-HIAA (with nitrosonapthol method). Urinary VMA (HMMA) levels may be falsely increased or decreased depending on the method of analysis.
Urinary glucose oxidase: Aspirin may cause a false negative test in the presence of glycosuria.

KNOWN SYMPTOMS OF OVERDOSAGE AND PARTICULARS OF ITS TREATMENT.
These include dizziness, tinnitus, sweating, nausea, vomiting, altered glucose metabolism, mental confusion, hyperventilation, respiratory alkalosis, ********* acidosis, ketosis, fluid and electrolyte losses. Depression of the central nervous system may lead to coma, cardiovascular collapse and respiratory failure.
In children serious signs of overdosage may develop rapidly. In cases of overdosage, consult a doctor immediately.
Gastric lavage, forced alkaline diuresis, restoration of fluid, electrolyte and acid balance, dialysis and supportive therapy may be required.

 

[reff]

Hi, self-injections are not possible. This isn't done here in Europe. Most endos are conservative. It took me YEARS to even find an endo willing to put me on TRT!
All other endos told me that having 250ng/ml is normal!!!!

I dont think we have pellets here. I never read about it. We only gave gels, Nebido and Testoviron.

 

[halfwit]

Wait, you read HERE that we can suffer embolisms from the OIL carrier?

First, I can tell you're hypogonadal by the amount of uncertainty and anxious tone of your post. You must be feeling less than stellar for sure.

So let me break this down for you. When you inject the testosterone into your body, it is inserted deep into a muscle belly. Inside your muscles are lots blood vessels that then carry the hormone into the rest of your body slowly as the oil is broken down and absorbed by the body. As testosterone has an ester attached, it will continue to circulate until the body can remove the ester - making it usable.

This process takes several days for the oil to be absorbed (no, it doesn't go to your brain) and the hormone to be extracted. Nebido takes even longer as it carries a very heavy ester with it. That is why this style of dosing is called a 'depot' .

Most bs in the media is regarding thrombosis or other forms of clotting due to either a poorly managed TRT protocol (estradiol is VERY important to control), or the fact that we produce a great deal of red blood cells on TRT, and MUST donate blood regularly. My doctor is a board review member, and didn't know this - so it's not surprising that many others don't either.

If you're worried about injecting oil directly into the blood stream, the odds are very slim as you would have to find a vein that doesn't collapse, but also one that can feed directly back into the main circulatory system. Injection sites are chosen for this reason as they do not have many veins large enough to do this, but also they do not exist so deep in the muscle tissue.

Get your injection, and you'll soon realize that there was much worry over nothing. I'm not a big fan of nebido, but understand that some may find it preferable to cypionate/enanthate.

Just be sure to stick around here so you can learn as much as possible; doctors are people too, and therefore are prone to mistakes as well as a lack of information. Your job is to make sure that YOUR best interests are being met, which requires you to understand how this works.

My .02c

 

[reff]

Hello,
but just go to the aveed website and read the stuff there. They even say that you must consider if it's worth the SERIOUS RISK of embolisms!

They also write that obviously deep vein thrombosis has happened too!

This is so damn scary. They also write that a person needed to be hospitalized after an injection!

And WHY do they say you can get a shock after every injection? I thought if you're allergic to something it will show up right away.

Seriously, I am so scared now. I had no idea that this stuff is so dangerous.

I don't know if I can take such a risk.

What I dont understand is if there's no risk if the injection is done correctly and if doctors know how to inject then there also shouldnt be any adverse reactions. But obviously there are. If this wasn't dangerous then why all the scary warnings?


And what about donating blood? Is this a must? Can you not simply keep your red blood cells under supervision?

 

[halfwit]

Geez, I put the phone down before I hit submit and this thread blew up!

Just an FYI OP: Did you know that vitamin C and b-12 both carry the risk of death on their disclosure pages? Heck, you can even die from drinking too much water (seriously). As stated above, these warnings are a way to prevent folks from suing in case someone has an ultra-rare reaction to the medication.

 

[reff]

I never heard that B12 can cause embolisms and thrombosis and all that.

I dont know how to deal with this. I mean I cannot simply ignore all these serious side effects and warnings on their website.
They wouldnt make stuff up. They wouldnt make it look more dangerous than it really is.

How shall I now convince myself that it's safe after reading all of this? I mean if the FDA was worried about it and didnt allow it for many years
then this MUST mean that it's risky.

 

[Mprtz]

Did you short nebido stock or something?

You are definitely seeing the glass half empty here. If the FDA approved it then that means they thought it carried more benefit than risk.

 

[Megatron28]

Have you ever taken aspirin, Tylenol, or ibuprofen?

 

[halfwit]

I never heard that B12 can cause embolisms and thrombosis and all that.

I dont know how to deal with this. I mean I cannot simply ignore all these serious side effects and warnings on their website.
They wouldnt make stuff up. They wouldnt make it look more dangerous than it really is.

How shall I now convince myself that it's safe after reading all of this? I mean if the FDA was worried about it and didnt allow it for many years
then this MUST mean that it's risky.

B12 can cause death by a far faster and more dangerous reaction as well as thrombosis. Point being however that it is rare.

Honestly the choice is yours, you can die from an embolism if you don't manage your TRT, or from hypogonadism. Yes, low T can and will kill you - it's just a slow death as your body shuts down over time.

If nebido has you that worried, demand cypionate. The risks are relatively the same (small), but there are far less warnings as cyp was approved long ago by the FDA. If your doc doesn't listen, fire him and find one that does.

 

[reff]

I take a B complex vitamin (pure encapsultions) and it does not have any warnings.

Anyway, I know you guys mean well, but I cannot make myself believe that aspirin is as dangerous as nebido.
I mean seriously, have you been to the aveed website? These warnings are crazy. Even they make it sound as if aveed is super risky.
They even write that it's a serious risk and that you must consider it!

What do you do for example if you get side effects like short breath? What then? Even if it goes away how do you know what damage the oil did
and where it is now in the body?

Do you then have to go to a doctor and get yourself checked out completely or what?

I am very anxious by nature and when I imagine getting side effects after an injection then I'd be in huge fear for days or weeks until I could find out if anything
bad happened but what if you cannot find it out? What if there is no way of telling if there is permanent damage or not? Then the fear also wont go away anymore.

 

[reff]

And does nebido raise E2?

Gels didnt raise my E2. Does this mean I dont have to worry about E2? Cause AIs are also not available to me! They are only used for women not for men here.
My doc wouldnt give me an AI.

 

[halfwit]

You don't have to take my word for the B12. I invite you to look up cyanocobalamin or methylcobalamin on any of the popular drug sites and read through the side effects/contraindications page.

It's becoming quite apparent to me that it doesn't matter what is said, you're having some serious issues with the thought of sides from nebido. Again, if it bothers you THAT much, DON'T take it. There are other alternatives out there, but it sounds like you need to change doctors to have them as an option.

If gels didn't raise your E2, you weren't absorbing enough to aromatize. Testosterone in ANY form will aromatize to estradiol, so if your body deems that the ratio of testosterone to estradiol isn't where it should be - you will require an AI.

If an AI is not available through your doctor, you need to find one that has a clue, and will prescribe it. Being on TRT means two very important things:

1. You need to monitor your estradiol and make corrections if needed.
2. You need to monitor and control hematocrit. If you don't, you will find yourself requiring therapeutic phlebotomies, or the quack doc will simply pull you off TRT.

 

[Alpin]

B12 had the same warning. ..
means nothing.
Drop the anxiety and get to bizness!!!