Nebido failing after seven months. Options?

AlanIRE

New member
Hi guys,

I'll try to be as to the point here as possible, as I know these OPs tend to go on a bit!

I began taking Nebido in April. My second (or loading) injection was administered after 4 weeks.

Initial results were positive, but symptoms started to reoccur about 6 weeks after this second shot.

By the end of week 11, I was feeling horrendous, and the decision was taken to administer my third injection immediately, rather than wait until the 12 week mark.

A blood test performed 6 and a half weeks after the third injection showed a T blood level of 8.5 nmol/L. By week 8, I was again feeling horrendous and the fourth injection was eventually administered at the end of week 9.

I discovered through research that levels on Nebido peak after 1 week. So I got tested seven days after shot four - showing a level of 17.1 nmol/l.

Now this to me is more akin to the type of trough level one should be aiming for. However, upon meeting with my consultant (a professor of endocrinology) a couple of weeks ago, he seemed more concerned that my levels might go too high and limited me to an eight week injection cycle.

I showed him printed evidence from academic papers that levels peak after week one. He argued that the peak is more in the middle of the cycle and seemed unaware that testosterone undecanoate is the pharmacological name for Nebido. He was perfectly happy with a level of 17.1 nmol/l after one week.

I'm at the end of my tether guys. I waited nine years for a diagnosis, having been fobbed off on numerous occasions with Cialis prescriptions and psychiatrist appointments.

The last 2 years of treatment have been a bust. The Testogel was a failure, even at two sachets a day, producing trough levels of 11.1 nmol/l, and leaving me with some appalling side effects (nascent gyno, awful acne).

His conclusion is that T just decays quicker in my body than in most.

Is there anything I can do? What would you do? Anyone have a similar experience? Thanks.
 
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Glad you agree!

Shocked me that someone who is quite literally at the top of his field could be so uninformed.
 
Nebido's half life is 3 months - so at 12 weeks you would only have half the testosterone left. It is a very slow acting test, so it does not have the huge rise and drop of Test-Cyp. If he is convinced your body processes the undecanoate faster then ask him to reduce the time between shots to make up for it. Go for 8 weeks instead of 12, that way you are keeping a higher concentration in your body.

Since it sounds like you are in Europe somewhere, I doubt you have much (if any) choice of your doctor. Socialized medicine has its advantages, but doctor choice seems to be a huge disadvantage to it.

I looked up the normal ranges for men and it appears he wants to put you at the lower middle end of the normal range. Tell him you would like it higher since your symptoms have yet to go away - which is the entire reason you are seeing him. Ask him if he would want to live with your symptoms when he could so easily treat them by simply increasing the dose and frequency of injections. He might not care, but he might.
20 to 39 years = 270-1,080 ng/dL (9.00-37.48 nmol/L)
40 to 59 years = 350-890 ng/dL (12.15-30.88 nmol/L)

Good luck!

As an aside, you could always buy your own Test-Cyp and augment your dosing with it - if you lose out with the doctor.
 
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Thanks for the reply cybrsage.

As I said in the OP, I've already been moved onto an 8 week schedule. I simply feel that, given I was at 8 nmol/l a mere 6 weeks into the last cycle, that 8 weeks will not be sufficient either.

I'm not asking for ridiculous trough levels - I just want to be at or above 15 nmol/l, you know?
 
Bigben66 is in the UK and on a Nebido protocol 1000mg every 4 weeks AFAIR, he may have some advice here.
 
For some reason I'm not currently permitted to send a PM.....would someone mind PMing him a link to the thread on my behalf please?

Thanks.
 
Have you checked estradiol and free or bioavailable testosterone levels? That might be part of the equation in addition to shortening the time between injections.
 
Have you checked estradiol and free or bioavailable testosterone levels? That might be part of the equation in addition to shortening the time between injections.

Estradiol is within the normal range.

I think getting total testosterone up first should be main concern, before looking at these side issues.

Certainly in the first couple of weeks when my levels are >15 nmol/l I feel pretty good.

Thanks mprtz!
 
What is you estradiol at in pg/ml? The normal range is botnangood guide for optimal estradiol levels while on TRT.
 
Hi OP,

I've been steered here via a PM from mprtz...

I've been on Nebido about 13 months now, and although the 1st 3 months were tough, I really am finding Nebido to be a life changer...

Your experience so far almost mirrors mine - having to inject immediately after blood tests due to low levels...

Maybe my doc is more considerate and willing to listen - but he is happy for me to inject every 4 weeks, which keeps my levels from mid to high on the scale. He was initially hinting at an 8 weeks protocol, but my troughs were very low and symptoms remained...

Luckily, this doctor listens to the patient and considers symptoms to be more important that numbers on a sheet. So every 4 weeks was ok for me.... I haven't been re-tested for 6 months!

I also take 5mg Cialis ED too, which I know to be beneficial for TRT patients to help the prostate and for blood pressure. (Plus I find it an amazing pre-workout and never lets me down in the boudoir!)

Stick with it OP, and push those poor symptoms all the time, so much so that he has to listen!

Good luck buddy
 
Great post Ben. You've no idea how much hope that's given me.

Using expressions like "life changer" is exactly what I want to hear.

I've e-mailed my consultant asking him to consider a 6 week interval (with stringent blood testing to mollify him). Hopefully that does the trick. I may even need 4 weeks - and I mentioned my discussions with you in order to drive home that that is not unheard of.

I stressed the symptoms - I'm five weeks in now from my last shot, and I truly feel awful again.

I also take 5mg Cialis, as it happens, but more because my weak erections have yet to be addressed.

Megatron - my estradiol levels were last tested 6 weeks after my third shot and were at 22.6 pg/ml. Again, I'm focused first on getting my total T levels up to satisfactorily levels. If I'm still feeling crap, then I'll look at E2 and Free T.
 
Great post Ben. You've no idea how much hope that's given me.

Using expressions like "life changer" is exactly what I want to hear.

I've e-mailed my consultant asking him to consider a 6 week interval (with stringent blood testing to mollify him). Hopefully that does the trick. I may even need 4 weeks - and I mentioned my discussions with you in order to drive home that that is not unheard of.

I stressed the symptoms - I'm five weeks in now from my last shot, and I truly feel awful again.

I also take 5mg Cialis, as it happens, but more because my weak erections have yet to be addressed.

Megatron - my estradiol levels were last tested 6 weeks after my third shot and were at 22.6 pg/ml. Again, I'm focused first on getting my total T levels up to satisfactorily levels. If I'm still feeling crap, then I'll look at E2 and Free T.

You can't just look at Total Testosterone. Estradiol management is extremely important. If estradiol gets too low or too high you will feel lousy. Seriously -- like the worst you have ever felt in your life. Not to mention that it can be dangerous as well. For example, high estradiol can cause edema, irritate the prostate and cause gynecomastia. Low estradiol can make it so you don't want to leave your bed and result in bone fractures. Testosterone and Estradiol go hand-in-hand while on TRT. You really need to look at the full picture when it comes to the HPTA. Not just one piece of it.

22.6pg/ml is a bit on the lowish side, but since you are not taking an Aromatase Inhibitor the only thing you can really do to increase it is boost your testosterone dosage. But consider those additional support for your argument that you need a better dosing protocol of Nebido. Not only are your testosterone levels getting too low several weeks after pinning, but so is your estradiol.

And of course, you need to monitor hematocrit and donate blood before it becomes too high.

You may want to read the Basic TRT Overview Sticky thread in this forum. It will help you have a better underatanding of how TRT and the HPTA work.

Good luck and hang in there. Remember that you need to be your best advocate for your own health.
 
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