extremely weird ... please look

W

whoremoan

New member
ok everyone ive been running 750mg test e, 400mg tren , 750 eq

done a blood test first 4 weeks into cycle.. all was expected , estrogen was on upper end of scale which is perfect for me.....

then... got more bloods another 10 weeks later ... everything was as expected but estrogen had gone down!
weird thing is i wasnt using an ai ?? just nolvadex ....

i also got dht tested and it was 3x the limit of upper range

now it feels like my estro has gone down more... pissing alot during the night, waking up with chapped lips, creaky joints etc etc

what could be lowering my estro ?? could it be the dht? only other thing i can think is im taking a sleep supp with zma ... and zinc has been known to lower estro, maybe im a hyper reactor ?
 
tankmanbob said:
Check out the steroid tree, DHT is a one way trip from test - and a bit removed from estrogen

View attachment 566661
Click to expand...


very interesting.... so my test is dumping to dht ... i think im close to figuring this out with everyones help... just looked at a previous blood test and dhea is low .... under the range .... therefore i either need dhea cream or possibly even hcg ??

do yous think i am on the right track?
 
Wrong about using Novladex that is your problem . too strong and should just be using low dose AI.

Yes you need AI for Test. Nolva is beginning yo crash Estrogen. Do more research on Nolva.
Nolva for PCT ......
 
oldmusclemike said:
Wrong about using Novladex that is your problem . too strong and should just be using low dose AI.

Yes you need AI for Test. Nolva is beginning yo crash Estrogen. Do more research on Nolva.
Nolva for PCT ......
Click to expand...

woah hold up,,,, can you elaborate more ? nolva crashing estro ? im genuinely curious... ive always been told off old schoolers/pros to just use nolva at 10mg ed offseason

do you have any links or info on this? im very curious thnx
 
For sure all that excess test - some is going down pathway 5, the 5 alpha reductase to DHT. Nothing you can do about that, except take less test.

Why an equally large amount isn't going down the A pathway, aromatase to estradiol is the mystery.

Nolvadex blunts the receptors ability to utilize estrogen, doesn't do anything to prevent it's formation, so while Mike is right to not use it on cycle I'm not sure that's your issue.

DHEA you can see lower down on the tree, with pathways to three other hormones. Since your HPTA is shut down boosting DHEA, in turn boosting androstenidione and androstenediol, won't do anything to make more test since your nuts are on holiday - but could use the A pathway to make estrone, which would boost estradiol by the 4 pathway. DHEA powder supplements are cheap, might be worth a try.

Also, the profiles say boldenone aromatizes about half what test does - so 750 /wk divided by 2 = 375 mg/wk aromatizing load, plus 750 mg/wk test aromatizing load = 1,125 mg/wk. You should use a traditional AI like aromasin or arimidex. That much potential aromatizing in connection with the 400 tren's potential prolactin issues could cause a whopping case of gyno, or maybe other unforeseen issues.

Might be a good idea to get a good blood test, get testosterone LC-MS combined with sensitive estradiol, this is a menu choice and comes with the typical blood panel. Add in prolactin. The info from those tests will tell you much better what's going on.
 
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tankmanbob said:
For sure all that excess test - some is going down pathway 5, the 5 alpha reductase to DHT. Nothing you can do about that, except take less test.

Why an equally large amount isn't going down the A pathway, aromatase to estradiol is the mystery.

Nolvadex blunts the receptors ability to utilize estrogen, doesn't do anything to prevent it's formation, so while Mike is right to not use it on cycle I'm not sure that's your issue.

DHEA you can see lower down on the tree, with pathways to three other hormones. Since your HPTA is shut down boosting DHEA, in turn boosting androstenidione and androstenediol, won't do anything to make more test since your nuts are on holiday - but could use the A pathway to make estrone, which would boost estradiol by the 4 pathway. DHEA powder supplements are cheap, might be worth a try.

Also, the profiles say boldenone aromatizes about half what test does - so 750 /wk divided by 2 = 375 mg/wk aromatizing load, plus 750 mg/wk test aromatizing load = 1,125 mg/wk. You should use a traditional AI like aromasin or arimidex. That much potential aromatizing in connection with the 400 tren's potential prolactin issues could cause a whopping case of gyno, or maybe other unforeseen issues.

Might be a good idea to get a good blood test, get testosterone LC-MS combined with sensitive estradiol, this is a menu choice and comes with the typical blood panel. Add in prolactin. The info from those tests will tell you much better what's going on.
Click to expand...

This much better said. Now do some of your own research on Nolva.

I'm on my phone cause my computer bit the dust so I'm limited as to my material.
 
Nolva
tamoxifen citrate, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that blocks estrogen from binding to its receptor in the body. It is used for estrogen control in cycles and the recovery of natural testosterone levels in post cycle therapy.

It is used for PCT not for a simple AI. So Simple Simon you crashed E2
Why are you not doing your own research ??
 
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oldmusclemike said:
Nolva
tamoxifen citrate, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that blocks estrogen from binding to its receptor in the body. It is used for estrogen control in cycles and the recovery of natural testosterone levels in post cycle therapy.

It is used for PCT not for a simple AI. So Simple Simon you crashed E2
Why are you not doing your own research ??
Click to expand...

#1. Simple Simon ?? Are you kidding me ?? This is a place where people come to ask questions ... If it was too much hindrance for you why did you simply not write back ?? You deadset went out of your way to be a dick ... Is that the type of MAN you are ??

#2 in your abstract it clearly states it IS used in cycles AND pct ... And I'm the simple Simon HAHAHAH

#3 it cannot "crash" estrogen .. Only block it at receptors!!! An AI can only eliminate all estrogen in ones body which means crashed estrogen ...So yes it could be blocking estrogen receptors which I need ,,,,but you only got that right by luck ... The rest of what you said is wrong .. I think you need to do some research
 
Listen sorry if you think I was being a dick. Really didn't mean too be. But get over that and look at what I said.

I don't care that it says sometimes used on cycle , that is for specific reasons , but generally speaking and most all literature will NOT recommend it for cycling but for PCT regularly.

People using other compounds for simple AI are most likely to crash E2. And I stand by you needing more education, now I say that respectfully.

There is a sticky specifically about Estrogen, Prolactin and Progesterone. Please read that and it will help you. Again I'm limited for information for you on my phone. I'm and old guy , lol and doing this on my phone is , fvckin tough...... For me :(
 
Oh also there are articles specifically written to suggest what to use to control Estrogen and I don't believe they suggest Nolva. But suggest not to use, unless to be fighting bad Gyno activity.
Ok :) :)
 
Hey OP the type of man I am ??? upon further investigation I concede to misstating "Crash" E2 . But as it inhibits the use this will have to a degree the same ( similar) effect to what you are feeling and that is a "crash".

But stand by , not to use on cycle as it is too strong and hard to monitor, causing a difficult situation for most. You by your research should have seen and recognized it.

At 750mgs week you would have been much better off with some AI. Also FYI if you think that the use of Tren will help inhibit E2 ( like some think ?) It will not do anything for the Aromatizing compounds. Just saying, if you were thinking ??

Like you I here to help with my research and long time experience and LEARN.

GOOD LUCK
 
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oldmusclemike said:
Listen sorry if you think I was being a dick. Really didn't mean too be. But get over that and look at what I said.

I don't care that it says sometimes used on cycle , that is for specific reasons , but generally speaking and most all literature will NOT recommend it for cycling but for PCT regularly.

People using other compounds for simple AI are most likely to crash E2. And I stand by you needing more education, now I say that respectfully.

There is a sticky specifically about Estrogen, Prolactin and Progesterone. Please read that and it will help you. Again I'm limited for information for you on my phone. I'm and old guy , lol and doing this on my phone is , fvckin tough...... For me :(
Click to expand...

no problem at all mate , i think this problem is more complex,, ive had prolactin, estrogen, progesterone , test, dht, dhea checked ... everything is in within range (except dhea which is low and dht which 3x limit)... ive researched it all mate

im not saying i know everything , i just know my body real well ... just seams like my body is pushing all my test toward dht .... and think about it, if dht is high its going to lower my estrogen
 
oldmusclemike said:
Oh also there are articles specifically written to suggest what to use to control Estrogen and I don't believe they suggest Nolva. But suggest not to use, unless to be fighting bad Gyno activity.
Ok :) :)
Click to expand...

i agree with this too to an extent.... but having higher estro (not too high) is far better for me

think of hormones like a sea saw... if test levels are 3x limit ... then having estro at natty levels is going to cause an imbalane
 
oldmusclemike said:
Hey OP the type of man I am ??? upon further investigation I concede to misstating "Crash" E2 . But as it inhibits the use this will have to a degree the same ( similar) effect to what you are feeling and that is a "crash".

But stand by , not to use on cycle as it is too strong and hard to monitor, causing a difficult situation for most. You by your research should have seen and recognized it.

At 750mgs week you would have been much better off with some AI. Also FYI if you think that the use of Tren will help inhibit E2 ( like some think ?) It will not do anything for the Aromatizing compounds. Just saying, if you were thinking ??

Like you I here to help with my research and long time experience and LEARN.

GOOD LUCK
Click to expand...

lol i agree! but i guess my body just isnt working that way... from all ive researched 750mg test ew should definetly warrant an ai... but as i said my bloods come back with estrogen getting lower... only thing i can think is they didnt test my estro in lc/ms as i asked??
 
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